Vanagas on Cinquanta's Favoritism

Vanagas on Cinquanta's Favoritism

Post by soobell » Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:15:02


From the Asahi Shimbun News Service
http://www.asahi.com/english/sports/K2002032500368.html

Povilas also lashed out at ISU president Ottavio Cinquanta, accusing
the Italian of favoritism. ``He's talking about unity in the ISU, ....
but at the same moment he was doing so many tricks helping the Italian
couple when they were still skating in amateur worlds,'' Povilas said.
``The person who wants to be independent, strongly independent, the
one who wants to help all the countries - he was taking very much care
about the couple who represent the country where he is from.''

He also indicates in the column that their decision to retire was
prompted by frustration at the judging system and they would continue
if the competitons were really competitions.

Interesting that a quote attributed to Ukrainian Ice Dance skater Alla
Beknazarova in this article is attributed to another ice dancer in
other articles I've read.  Odd, unless they both said the same thing.

soobelle

 
 
 

Vanagas on Cinquanta's Favoritism

Post by Leon Guillott » Fri, 29 Mar 2002 00:14:24

Good for Povilas and the rest of the skaters who signed the petition.  I
don't understand how it could have been dismissed so out of hand "The ISU on
Sunday turned down the protest. Referee Courtney Jones, who was overseeing
Friday's competition, told the Lithuanian delegation in a letter that the
protest had ``no grounds.''  NO GROUNDS???
Can anyone please tell me why this is continuing to be a problem? and/or how
it can be stopped.
This is a blight on the Olympics and figure skating.   Dance has got to be
removed from competition or a scoring system similar to diving or
gymnastics, a
predetermined base line might help.  But I doubt anything will be done as
the powers that be seem unconcerned with the problem.
Leon


Quote:
> From the Asahi Shimbun News Service
> http://www.asahi.com/english/sports/K2002032500368.html

> Povilas also lashed out at ISU president Ottavio Cinquanta, accusing
> the Italian of favoritism. ``He's talking about unity in the ISU, ....
> but at the same moment he was doing so many tricks helping the Italian
> couple when they were still skating in amateur worlds,'' Povilas said.
> ``The person who wants to be independent, strongly independent, the
> one who wants to help all the countries - he was taking very much care
> about the couple who represent the country where he is from.''

> He also indicates in the column that their decision to retire was
> prompted by frustration at the judging system and they would continue
> if the competitons were really competitions.

> Interesting that a quote attributed to Ukrainian Ice Dance skater Alla
> Beknazarova in this article is attributed to another ice dancer in
> other articles I've read.  Odd, unless they both said the same thing.

> soobelle


 
 
 

Vanagas on Cinquanta's Favoritism

Post by janet swan hi » Fri, 29 Mar 2002 00:19:32

Quote:
>  I
>don't understand how it could have been dismissed so out of hand "The ISU on
>Sunday turned down the protest. Referee Courtney Jones, who was overseeing
>Friday's competition, told the Lithuanian delegation in a letter that the
>protest had ``no grounds.''  NO GROUNDS???

The only grounds that can be accepted at a point like that is evidence of
cheating or inappropriate action on the part of the judges.   This is why the
appeal made on behalf of Slutskaya at the Olympics was dismissed.  

In both of these cases, the protest/appeal basically said "we disagree with the
results".   There is nothing within ISU procedures that allows for a
reconsideration of results on those grounds.  

       janet

janet

 
 
 

Vanagas on Cinquanta's Favoritism

Post by Fiona McQuarri » Fri, 29 Mar 2002 03:44:28


:>  I
:>don't understand how it could have been dismissed so out of hand "The ISU on
:>Sunday turned down the protest. Referee Courtney Jones, who was overseeing
:>Friday's competition, told the Lithuanian delegation in a letter that the
:>protest had ``no grounds.''  NO GROUNDS???

: The only grounds that can be accepted at a point like that is evidence of
: cheating or inappropriate action on the part of the judges.   This is why the
: appeal made on behalf of Slutskaya at the Olympics was dismissed.  

: In both of these cases, the protest/appeal basically said "we disagree with the
: results".   There is nothing within ISU procedures that allows for a
: reconsideration of results on those grounds.  

Isn't not taking deductions where the rulebook says they should be taken
"inappropriate action"? This was the same reasoning that the ISU used in
dismissing the Lithuanian federation protest of the ice dancing results at
the Olympics, and that appeal cited several specific points where judges
apparently did not follow the rulebook in awarding marks.

Fiona

 
 
 

Vanagas on Cinquanta's Favoritism

Post by left » Fri, 29 Mar 2002 03:59:46


Quote:
> >  I
> >don't understand how it could have been dismissed so out of hand "The ISU on
> >Sunday turned down the protest. Referee Courtney Jones, who was overseeing
> >Friday's competition, told the Lithuanian delegation in a letter that the
> >protest had ``no grounds.''  NO GROUNDS???

> The only grounds that can be accepted at a point like that is evidence of
> cheating or inappropriate action on the part of the judges.   This is why the
> appeal made on behalf of Slutskaya at the Olympics was dismissed.  

> In both of these cases, the protest/appeal basically said "we disagree with the
> results".   There is nothing within ISU procedures that allows for a
> reconsideration of results on those grounds.  

Not even if almost all the competitors themselves feel something fishy
is going on and sign a petition.

What a "let them eat cake" attitude.  Nice.

I'm finished watching ice dancing.  I mean it.

 
 
 

Vanagas on Cinquanta's Favoritism

Post by Le » Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:03:38

Quote:

> Good for Povilas and the rest of the skaters who signed the petition.  I
> don't understand how it could have been dismissed so out of hand "The ISU on
> Sunday turned down the protest. Referee Courtney Jones, who was overseeing
> Friday's competition, told the Lithuanian delegation in a letter that the
> protest had ``no grounds.''  NO GROUNDS???

I think some people are confusing the 'official' Lithuanian federation
protest with the skaters' petition. From what I can gather, the ISU
turned down the official protest, but has made no comment on the
petition -- nothing official that I've seen, at any rate.

I would guess that such 'outspokenness' on the part of the normally
meek and mild skaters *has* made of few of the PTB sit up a little
straighter and take notice. What will come of it remains to be seen.

Lee

 
 
 

Vanagas on Cinquanta's Favoritism

Post by Rick » Fri, 29 Mar 2002 07:33:21


Quote:
>> Good for Povilas and the rest of the skaters who signed the petition.  I
>> don't understand how it could have been dismissed so out of hand "The ISU
on
>> Sunday turned down the protest. Referee Courtney Jones, who was
overseeing
>> Friday's competition, told the Lithuanian delegation in a letter that the
>> protest had ``no grounds.''  NO GROUNDS???

>I think some people are confusing the 'official' Lithuanian federation
>protest with the skaters' petition. From what I can gather, the ISU
>turned down the official protest, but has made no comment on the
>petition -- nothing official that I've seen, at any rate.

>I would guess that such 'outspokenness' on the part of the normally
>meek and mild skaters *has* made of few of the PTB sit up a little
>straighter and take notice. What will come of it remains to be seen.

Here's some excerpts from 3 articles in chronological order.

This article mentions the federation filing the protest:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020323/ap_on_sp_o...
kating_protest_1
''Sat Mar 23, 2:59 AM ET
NAGANO, Japan - The Lithuanian Skating Federation filed a protest with the
International Skating Union over the fourth place finish of its ice dancers
at the World Figure Skating Championships.
 In a letter late Friday to the ISU, Kasiemieras Starkevicius, the president
of the Lithuanian Skating Federation said: "We felt the result for third
place was clear for our team and we protest the third place awarded in a
controversial 5-4 split to the Israeli couple."
...''

A later article gives more detail:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020323/sp_nm/figu...
ng_world_dc_8
''Sat Mar 23, 7:26 AM ET
By Alastair Himmer
...
The Lithuanian delegation lodged an official protest with the International
Skating Union following the free program...
...
The ISU declined to comment on the protest or the allegations over judging
and neither Boris Chait nor the Israeli team delegation could be reached
immediately.
Lithuanian team leader Sundeep Pandya said that the assistant referee had
supported their protest Friday.
NO ANSWER
"We have not had an answer from the ISU but two or three of the judges who
voted for the Lithuanians told me that they were ashamed to be on the panel
last night," he said.

This article mentions the petition, but there's some confusion regarding who
the petition was given to. The article also mentions the federation's
protest being turned down by Jones:
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/RTGAMArticleHTMLTemplate/C/200203...
25?hub=sportsBN&tf=tgam%2Frealtime%2Ffullstory_Spt.html&cf=tgam/realtime/con
fig-neutral&vg=BigAdVariableGenerator&slug=wbev25&date=20020325&archive=RTGA
M&site=Sports&ad_page_name=breakingnews-sports
''POSTED AT 8:06 AM EST    Monday, March 25
...
[coaches and skaters] got together to sign a petition declaring their
concerns to dance referee Courtney Jones yesterday.
...
...Bulgarian ice-dancer Albena Denkova, surrounded by several other skaters
as support, presented a petition to Ann Shaw, a member of the ice-dancing
technical committee.
...
Jones, the dance referee, turned down the Lithuanian federation's protest by
late Saturday.
"Having examined all the details contained in the protocol and having
conducted the event review meeting . . . I cannot find any reason for your
complaint," Jones wrote. The event review meeting was reported to be very
brief."
...
[Perhaps the petition was directed at Jones, but actually given to Shaw,
because she has been supportive of the skaters, a view supported by the next
excerpt:]
At a dance seminar yesterday, attended by coaches and skaters, only one
member of the dance technical committee received applause when introduced:
Shaw, a Canadian, who is known as an official who tries to work in the best
interest of the skaters.''

- Rick

 
 
 

Vanagas on Cinquanta's Favoritism

Post by janet swan hi » Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:23:19

Quote:
>Isn't not taking deductions where the rulebook says they should be taken
>"inappropriate action"?

My opinion:   No.   Failure to take a required deduction may simply have been a
mistake (as in, the judge didn't see the error, or in her/his haste to put up
marks, added wrong, etc).     If the judge admits to having not taken a
deduction in order to arrive at unjustified rankings, or if a judge says "I
decided ahead of time not to deduct for anything short of an actual fall"  well
yes, that's grounds for an appeal, but I doubt that any would admit to it.    

The problem here is the difficulty of proving malicious intent.   And it is
malicious/unethical intent that provides grounds for an appeal -- not simple
ineptitude.  

(I'm not arguing for or against, I'm just providing information)

janet

 
 
 

Vanagas on Cinquanta's Favoritism

Post by janet swan hi » Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:24:39

Quote:
>But...they didn't ask for a *reconsideration.* They asked for an
>*explanation.*

>Essentially, they were told there was no grounds for requesting an
>explanation.

I think I'm confusing the petition with a formal protest.

janet