Someone explain THIS to me!

Someone explain THIS to me!

Post by ZitoFi » Fri, 04 Jul 1997 04:00:00


Any Irina fans out there?  hehehe.
Sorry Irina fans, but even Peggy "don't say anything if it isn't nice" Fleming knows......Irina "desperately" needs help on her artistry.  Period.  

 
 
 

Someone explain THIS to me!

Post by Cycys » Fri, 04 Jul 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>Any Irina fans out there?  hehehe.
>Sorry Irina fans, but even Peggy "don't say anything if it isn't nice"
>Fleming knows......Irina "desperately" needs help on her artistry.
Period.  

 I'm an Irina fan. I'll say it again, Irina does not need help in
her artistry, she just needs more polish, better posture and
less hand movements. It's been getting better since the
beginning of last season. Maybe a new and polished Irina
is waiting to be unveiled next season. Anyways, just because
Peggy doesn't like Irina's artistry does NOT mean she has to
improve change it. I like Irina's artistry and there are others
that do too. Either you like it or you don't.

 Jam

*************************************
"I was very happy, because of all the gymnasts who competed in Barcelona I
was the only one to maintain her place" Lavinia Milosovici after Atlanta 1996.

 
 
 

Someone explain THIS to me!

Post by KBCanad » Sat, 05 Jul 1997 04:00:00

See, I like Jam.  Jam likes Surya and Irina.  They are both two of my
favorite skaters and I think Irina has so much improved in her artistry.
All she has to do is straighten up her back when she strokes...that's all.
 Who knows with next season!

michael

 
 
 

Someone explain THIS to me!

Post by Cycys » Sat, 05 Jul 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>See, I like Jam.  Jam likes Surya and Irina.  They are both two of my
>favorite skaters and I think Irina has so much improved in her artistry.
>All she has to do is straighten up her back when she strokes...that's
all.
> Who knows with next season!

>michael

 Why thanks for your support. I hope they both improve their
skating (not artistry) and kick some ***next season, hoping
it doesn't include Michelle Kwan.

 Jam

*************************************
"I was very happy, because of all the gymnasts who competed in Barcelona I
was the only one to maintain her place" Lavinia Milosovici after Atlanta 1996.

 
 
 

Someone explain THIS to me!

Post by JustinP » Sat, 05 Jul 1997 04:00:00

ZitoFive --

Quote:
>Sorry Irina fans, but even Peggy "don't say anything if it isn't nice"
>Fleming knows......Irina "desperately" needs help on her artistry.

Period.  

(Rambling mode on)
Peggy Flemming, to my knowledge, is not a "Skate God". Why didn't "Ms.
Don't Say Anything If It Isn't Nice" say this about Tara Lipinski? I don't
think Tara or Irina "desperately" need help with their artistry at all.
It's just that Tara has presentation.

Jam--

Quote:
>I'm an Irina fan. I'll say it again, Irina does not need help in her

artistry, she just >needs more polish, better posture and less hand
movements.

I agree. Tara has the polish. Tons of it. Irina doesn't. I think the
"sloppniess" of Slutskaya's programs really overshadows her artistry.

Plus, in response to Flemming's thoughts......Okay, Irina came in fourth
at Worlds with "desperate" artistry. If you can come in fourth at Worlds
with virtually no artistry, something's wrong isn't it? I don't think
artistry is that small part of the placements.
(Rambling mode off)

Happy Fourth of July! Off to the golf course I go.... (If you live outside
the US, happy Friday!),


 "Uncle Sam"

 
 
 

Someone explain THIS to me!

Post by PegLew » Sun, 06 Jul 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>See, I like Jam.  Jam likes Surya and Irina.  They are both two of my
>favorite skaters and I think Irina has so much improved in her artistry.
>All she has to do is straighten up her back when she strokes...that's
all.
> Who knows with next season!

Try muting the sound. Irina is a strong skater, with impressive skills,
but she does not yet move smoothly from element to connecting business to
element. She had a busy program, on a par with Kwan's, but her
choreography is still somewhat choppy. I believe that, if she, her coach &
her choreographer would get together and work on the transitions, I think
a lot of the criticism would stop.

JMO...

Peg


===========
"Attitude's everything,***." - Peggy Fleming to*** Button as Alexei
Urmanov skated his Beatles exhibition for the ump***th time, '97
Europeans Exhibitions
===========
"If you can't say anything good about someone, sit right here by me." -
Alice Roosevelt Longworth (with special thanks to Barb Melone for the
exact wording, and all the other wonderful netters who helped me identify
the origination of the "pillow" quotation!)
===========
"Peter, I can't even *imagine* what that must feel like." - Dorothy
Hamill, 1996 Trophee LaLique (Skate International of France)

 
 
 

Someone explain THIS to me!

Post by NLGHA » Thu, 10 Jul 1997 04:00:00

Quote:
>>Try muting the sound. Irina is a strong skater, with impressive skills,

but she does not yet move smoothly from element to connecting business to
element. She had a busy program, on a par with Kwan's, but her
choreography is still somewhat choppy. I believe that, if she, her coach &
her choreographer would get together and work on the transitions, I think
a lot of the criticism would stop.<<<

Quote:
>JMO...
>Peg


I think Irina also needs to hold her positions longer (or maybe this is
what you mean by transitions).  When you look at her sprial, I mean even
TARA hold's her spirals longer than Irina.  
 
 
 

Someone explain THIS to me!

Post by Cycys » Fri, 11 Jul 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>I think Irina also needs to hold her positions longer (or maybe this is
>what you mean by transitions).  When you look at her sprial, I mean even
>TARA hold's her spirals longer than Irina.  

 Um no! Irina holds her spirals much longer than Tara does.
Might not have the greatest position but Irina does in fact hold
em.

 Jam
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I was very happy, because of all the gymnasts who competed in Barcelona I
was the only one to maintain her place" -Lavinia Milosovici after Atlanta 1996
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 
 
 

Someone explain THIS to me!

Post by PegLew » Fri, 11 Jul 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>>>Try muting the sound. Irina is a strong skater, with impressive skills,
>but she does not yet move smoothly from element to connecting business to
>element. She had a busy program, on a par with Kwan's, but her
>choreography is still somewhat choppy. I believe that, if she, her coach
&
>her choreographer would get together and work on the transitions, I think
>a lot of the criticism would stop.<<<

>I think Irina also needs to hold her positions longer (or maybe this is
>what you mean by transitions).  When you look at her sprial, I mean even
>TARA hold's her spirals longer than Irina.  

Yes and no. I agree, Irina does not consistently complete each move.
Often, she seems to rush from element to element. Now, not stretching
fully in a camel isn't a transition, but it *is* failing to complete a
move. Stroking with poor carriage *is* a transition problem, as is rushing
the beginning or ending of a move in an effort to fit everything into the
right beats of the music... rather than allowing the time to complete the
elements and to make smooth transitions to the next elements.

Take the spiral sequence, as you mentioned. Not everyone has the
confidence of a Michelle Kwan to  do a straightforward, in-your-face short
program spiral sequence like the one in Dream of Desdemona. A lot of
skaters like to show how many spiral positions they can possibly attain
during their sequences, and this makes each position of shorter
duration... and that is made choppy if the skater doesn't allow time to
complete the position before shifting into the next one. They're like
magicians who don't let you see the whole trick in an effort to hide where
the sleight of hand occurs, and I'd rather they be more like, well,
Hartshorn & Sweiding doing their adagio lifts that change position four or
five times, but only after each position is completely & satisfyingly
presented.

Then again, I'm not sure which spirals of Irina's you're referring to. A
brief pass through a spiral position as a connecting element in a LP would
be likely held less long than a position in a SP spiral sequence. Do you
have a particular program in mind?

Peg


===========
"Attitude's everything,***." - Peggy Fleming to*** Button as Alexei
Urmanov skated his Beatles exhibition for the ump***th time, '97
Europeans Exhibitions
===========
"If you can't say anything good about someone, sit right here by me." -
Alice Roosevelt Longworth (with special thanks to Barb Melone for the
exact wording, and all the other wonderful netters who helped me identify
the origination of the "pillow" quotation!)
===========
"Peter, I can't even *imagine* what that must feel like." - Dorothy
Hamill, 1996 Trophee LaLique (Skate International of France)

 
 
 

Someone explain THIS to me!

Post by Angeld » Sat, 19 Jul 1997 04:00:00

could the diference in the polish possibly have to do with the
circumstances under which the different skaters train? If Irina doesn't
have polish, perhaps someone isn't paying the Russian mob enough to give
her adequate skating time!

 
 
 

Someone explain THIS to me!

Post by Cycys » Sat, 19 Jul 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>could the diference in the polish possibly have to do with the
>circumstances under which the different skaters train? If Irina doesn't
>have polish, perhaps someone isn't paying the Russian mob enough to give
>her adequate skating time!

 Why not? That might be it, but I've never heard about Irina having
problems
with ice time....

 Jam
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I was very happy, because of all the gymnasts who competed in Barcelona I
was the only one to maintain her place" -Lavinia Milosovici after Atlanta 1996
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~