Are the best skaters really winning(GPF)

Are the best skaters really winning(GPF)

Post by Babygi38 » Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:59:15


I don't know about anyone else but it seems to me after wathcing GP events
under the new scoring system that alot of the skaters are not putting down
their best programs.  I am glad to see the system is recognizing there is more
to skating than jumping but after watching the GPF i am wondering if the best
programs are really being rewarded.  In my opinion I think Sasha Cohen should
have finished third.  Her spins and footwork and spirals were wonderful i just
feel that her falls took away from all that, Shizuka Arwkarawa I think did a
pretty good long and should have finished second.  I think this system needs
alot more improvment. Intrested in opinions on the GPF standings and what you
think about the upcomming nationals.
 
 
 

Are the best skaters really winning(GPF)

Post by Amy or Bria » Tue, 23 Dec 2003 10:46:46


Quote:
> I don't know about anyone else but it seems to me after wathcing GP events
> under the new scoring system that alot of the skaters are not putting down
> their best programs.  I am glad to see the system is recognizing there is
more
> to skating than jumping but after watching the GPF i am wondering if the
best
> programs are really being rewarded.  In my opinion I think Sasha Cohen
should
> have finished third.  Her spins and footwork and spirals were wonderful i
just
> feel that her falls took away from all that, Shizuka Arwkarawa I think did
a
> pretty good long and should have finished second.  I think this system
needs
> alot more improvment. Intrested in opinions on the GPF standings and what
you
> think about the upcomming nationals.

Are you including the short programs in your assessment?

I missed the broadcast of the GPF, but I did want to point out that the
score under CoP is, like its predecessor, comprised of both short and long
program scores.  And under CoP, the margin of lead in the short makes a
difference that didn't exist in the ordinal system.  Sasha could have had a
bigger lead in the short over Arakawa, for one thing.  Another factor you
may be discounting is that a fall on an ambitious jump or combination under
CoP is worth more than a clean long where no high-difficulty jumps are
attempted.  This also may have contributed to Cohen's win.

The big problem with the new system is the anonymity.  I actually like the
*idea* of CoP for the same reasons some of the skaters have said in
interviews; I just feel that the potential for problems, what with Sekret
judges and the Sekret Komputer (TM), has increased and not really addressed
the real issues.  But we've already hashed that to death and that's not
really what your original post was about.

-Amy

 
 
 

Are the best skaters really winning(GPF)

Post by Jennifer Lyo » Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:56:18

----------

Quote:

> I don't know about anyone else but it seems to me after wathcing GP events
> under the new scoring system that alot of the skaters are not putting down
> their best programs.  I am glad to see the system is recognizing there is more
> to skating than jumping but after watching the GPF i am wondering if the best
> programs are really being rewarded.  In my opinion I think Sasha Cohen should
> have finished third.  Her spins and footwork and spirals were wonderful i just
> feel that her falls took away from all that, Shizuka Arwkarawa I think did a
> pretty good long and should have finished second.  I think this system needs
> alot more improvment. Intrested in opinions on the GPF standings and what you
> think about the upcomming nationals.

I agree that Shizuka should have finished second in the GPF. Yet at the same
time, I'm sure the old 6.0 system would have yielded some questionable
results as well. I still haven't gotten used to the new CoP system, but I'd
rather see the powers-that-be fix the bugs in it as opposed to going back to
the 6.0 scale.

 
 
 

Are the best skaters really winning(GPF)

Post by Janice Schne » Tue, 23 Dec 2003 15:00:36

Quote:
>I agree that Shizuka should have finished second in the GPF.

Didn't she place second in the Long program?  Since it's a two program
competition, I don't understand why people want the final skate to determine
placement.

If that is what is supposed to determine the winner, then perhaps the ISU
should just do away with the Short program.

Janice
"Alias" Fan - Spydaddy rocks!

"Kwan uses her body as a form of communication that links her to the music, the
audience and the ice." Elaine Anderson, Reno Gazette-Journal  7/25/02

 
 
 

Are the best skaters really winning(GPF)

Post by john » Tue, 23 Dec 2003 17:35:20

Quote:
> If that is what is supposed to determine the winner, then perhaps the ISU
> should just do away with the Short program.

Good point. In gymnastics .. at least back in the dark ages when
I was involved ... the Short program was a Compulsory program.
Everyone did the exact same program, and all that was important
was correctness of execution. Its purpose was to act as a qualifier
to the long or Optional program where the gymnast was judged
under a system very much like CoP. Reason for this was that
gymnastics was literally mobbed with talent, and we needed to
cull the field before Optionals. However, at the elite level, the
Compulsory program eventually disappeared, because the number
of gymnasts declined ... or at least because the number of
gymnasts allowed to become elites greatly declined in the face
of extremely high difficulty in the elements.  When figure skaters
realize that now dd is the *** force in the final scores,
and that it ranges across a lot of different kinds of elements, I
expect the difficulty to increase a great deal across all of
the elements. That should act to limit the field so that the Short
program will go away. I wish sometime I could see a list of
the elements and their base scores .. and then see what is in
the programs of say the top 5 skaters in one of these comps.
For all I know right now, somebody with 5 triples in her
program is throwing away the chance to put 15 or 20
equivalent moves in her dance and spins ... and that is a
stupid choreographer. Sasha Cohen is doing a heck of
a lot of stuff out there, while the rest are just crusing and
jumping.  Still ... from choreographing a world of gymnastics
routines for my team kids ... you gotta have both quantity
and difficulty, but the kid has to be able to get through it too.
Endurance means train up .. and train down. These dimwitted
FS coaches never heard of that, and it is going to kick their
butts. I could tell that SashaC was dead tired on her feet,
and I knew the falls were coming.

johns

 
 
 

Are the best skaters really winning(GPF)

Post by Phyllis Stee » Wed, 24 Dec 2003 03:50:02


Quote:
> >I agree that Shizuka should have finished second in the GPF.

> Didn't she place second in the Long program?  Since it's a two program
> competition, I don't understand why people want the final skate to
determine
> placement.

No, she didn't.

http://www.isufs.org/results/gpf0304/seg004.htm

2 Sasha COHEN USA 116.68
3 Shizuka ARAKAWA JPN 114.23

--
"I've gotten better information from a [Ouija] board!" -- Capcomop on the
anonymous judging system
--
Let the dog out to e-mail me.

 
 
 

Are the best skaters really winning(GPF)

Post by Janice Schne » Wed, 24 Dec 2003 14:04:21

Quote:
>> Didn't she place second in the Long program?  Since it's a two program
>> competition, I don't understand why people want the final skate to
>determine
>> placement.

>No, she didn't.

>http://www.isufs.org/results/gpf0304/seg004.htm

>2 Sasha COHEN USA 116.68
>3 Shizuka ARAKAWA JPN 114.23

It was pretty close.  I'll have to agree with those who mention that Sasha
finishes her moves and that goes a long way on her presentation scores, even
with falls.  

Janice
"Alias" Fan - Spydaddy rocks!

"Kwan uses her body as a form of communication that links her to the music, the
audience and the ice." Elaine Anderson, Reno Gazette-Journal  7/25/02

 
 
 

Are the best skaters really winning(GPF)

Post by Jim Reute » Wed, 24 Dec 2003 16:17:20


Quote:
> >I agree that Shizuka should have finished second in the GPF.

> Didn't she place second in the Long program?  Since it's a two program
> competition, I don't understand why people want the final skate to
determine
> placement.

> If that is what is supposed to determine the winner, then perhaps the ISU
> should just do away with the Short program.

> Janice
> "Alias" Fan - Spydaddy rocks!

> "Kwan uses her body as a form of communication that links her to the
music, the
> audience and the ice." Elaine Anderson, Reno Gazette-Journal  7/25/02

Perhaps there should be 2 long programs of equal weight. Under the new
system, ties would be very unlikely.

I don't know that there is anything magic about the old technical(short)
program/long program format.  The deductions required in the short program,
and the disastrous consequences if a skater missed a single element (land
that first jump of a combination in a rut and what are your chances of
getting the second jump to happen - if you stand up after the first one)
never seemed "fair" to me anyway, but that was the system so I lived with
it.

I still don't like the secret judging.