Christine Brennan (Please tell me!)

Christine Brennan (Please tell me!)

Post by PegLew » Mon, 06 Jul 1998 04:00:00



Quote:

>       Many people object to all of her inaccuracies!!!  She often changes
>facts around to support her own theories, and other times is just plain
>wrong.
>I think a lot of people worry that readers of the books will believe these
>untruths, and it will reflect badly on the sport and/or the skaters.

Please quote untruths and their corrections. Thanks.

Peg, curious


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Christine Brennan (Please tell me!)

Post by DesertRo » Mon, 06 Jul 1998 04:00:00

I don't like Christine Brennan because of her broad generalizations about
professional skating and skaters.
DesertRoaz

Anna on the podium in 1999!

 
 
 

Christine Brennan (Please tell me!)

Post by CrnbrryM » Tue, 07 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

>>       Many people object to all of her [Christine Brennan's] inaccuracies!!!
 She often changes
>>facts around to support her own theories, and other times is just plain
>>wrong.
>>I think a lot of people worry that readers of the books will believe these
>>untruths, and it will reflect badly on the sport and/or the skaters.

>Please quote untruths and their corrections. Thanks.

>Peg, curious

    Well, my favorite example (in Inside Edge) is the one about Katarina Witt's
blade falling off when she did a triple toe (because the toe pick stuck in the
ice) which caused her "to land on what amounted to little more than a street
shoe".
    The problem with this scenario  is that Katarina picks with her LEFT foot
and lands on her RIGHT foot when doing a triple toe loop. If the toe pick stuck
on the ice then the blade would have fallen off her LEFT foot, but she still
would have had a blade to land on on her RIGHT foot
         . I actually asked Brennan about this at a book signing, and her
answer was that Katarina didn' t do her triple toe like all other skaters
because she was East German, and she picked with her RIGHT foot and landed on
her RIGHT foot.......when I said that this would make it a triple flip (which
Katarina has never done as a pro and rarely as an amateur), Brennan answered
that it would be a triple toe in East Germany!!!!................ (oh really?)
      In Edge of Glory, she mentions that Linda Leaver introduced Slavka Kahout
(Dick Button's ex-wife and Janet Lynn's choreographer) to Lori Nichol, Michelle
Kwan's choreographer at Nationals this year. Brennan then says that Kahout
doesn't choreograph as well anymore because "she is older", but forgets that
Kahout did two beautiful programs for Shepard Clark at Nationals this year,
which earned him his first medal.
    Brian Boitano and*** Button both mentioned Kahout as choreographer of
these programs on the broadcast, but Brennan obviously didn't know this or
didn't care enough to be accurate.
    A friend of mine actually started going through Inside Edge looking for
errors and distorted truths and found over 50 in the first 75 pages.
      Another example....in Edge of Glory, she says Michael Weiss should have
had the first quad count at Nationals even though he did slightly two-foot
it...she quotes*** Button as saying, So What..it was a great effort!!
     Well, if slight two-foots were to be forgiven, then Brian Boitano would
have had the first quad at Worlds in l988, and Michael wouldn't have been in
the running. But Brennan probably wasn't aware that Boitano landed a quad toe
with only a very slight two-foot (similar to Weiss) at that Worlds....do you
count this as an inaccuracy or just ignorance?

Marty

 
 
 

Christine Brennan (Please tell me!)

Post by <PegLe.. » Tue, 07 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Subj:   Re: Christine Brennan (Please tell me!)
Date:   07/06/98


[Note: if this shows up multiple times, I apologize. I still can't fix the
long post modem problems. Love that AOL. - Peg]

Quote:
CrnbrryMuf writes:

[CM:]
      Many people object to all of her [Christine Brennan's] inaccuracies!!!
She often changes facts around to support her own theories, and other times is
just plain wrong. I think a lot of people worry that readers of the books will
believe these untruths, and it will reflect badly on the sport and/or the
skaters.

[Peg]
Please quote untruths and their corrections. Thanks.

Peg, curious

[CM, again:]
    Well, my favorite example (in Inside Edge) is the one about Katarina
Witt's blade falling off when she did a triple toe (because the toe pick stuck
in the ice) which caused her "to land on what amounted to little more than a
street shoe".
    The problem with this scenario  is that Katarina picks with her LEFT foot
and lands on her RIGHT foot when doing a triple toe loop. If the toe pick
stuck on the ice then the blade would have fallen off her LEFT foot, but she
still would have had a blade to land on on her RIGHT foot

Peg:<chuckle>

[CM, continuing:]

Quote:
>         . I actually asked Brennan about this at a book signing, and her

answer was that Katarina didn' t do her triple toe like all other skaters
because she was East German, and she picked with her RIGHT foot and landed on
her RIGHT foot.......when I said that this would make it a triple flip (which
Katarina has never done as a pro and rarely as an amateur), Brennan answered
that it would be a triple toe in East Germany!!!!................ (oh really?)

Peg responds:
LOL! Now *that's* a wonderful example. Thank you. "It would be a triple toe in
East Germany?!" What's wrong with saying, "my stupid editor screwed it up"
(since we all know that editors are the scapegoats for all writers, right
;-)?) ?

Seriously, though... Brennan's first book was full of lesser quality writing.
I think her second book is much better, and should not be as easily dismissed.
She should have admitted her mistake to you at the autograph session unless
she *is* seriously misinformed by a source she considers to be more reliable
than that of a skating fan who knows the difference between a flip and a toe
loop... in which case she *really* needs to lose that "more reliable source,"
because it's wrong.

CM:

Quote:
>      In Edge of Glory, she mentions that Linda Leaver introduced Slavka

Kahout (Dick Button's ex-wife and Janet Lynn's choreographer) to Lori Nichol,
Michelle Kwan's choreographer at Nationals this year. Brennan then says that
Kahout doesn't choreograph as well anymore because "she is older", but forgets
that Kahout did two beautiful programs for Shepard Clark at Nationals this
year, which earned him his first medal.
Quote:
>    Brian Boitano and*** Button both mentioned Kahout as choreographer of

these programs on the broadcast, but Brennan obviously didn't know this or
didn't care enough to be accurate.

Peg:
Well, Shep wasn't in the book, was he? I imagine she only viewed the tape of
the skaters she was writing about. Truth be told, I don't remember the
televised remarks about his choreography, either, but I believe you, and agree
that it is sloppy writing if Brennan implied that Kohout was no longer
choreographing. But let's examine the book for clarification, shall we? p.351
reads:
<new paragraph>
     Boitano and Leaver smiled, but they didn't say a word.
<new paragraph>
     They couldn't take their eyes off Nichol and Kohout, whom Janet Lynn
Salomon calls "the person who taught me everything I knew."
<new paragraph>
     Nichol and Kohout talked for only a few more moments.
<new paragraph>
     "I'm getting old," Kohout said in the lobby. "My choreography is not so
good anymore."
<quotation ends>

Now, it seems to me that Brennan is reporting what *Kohout* said about
herself, rather than passing judgement about Kohout's choreography. Perhaps I
am misinterpreting that passage, but I really don't think this is a good
example of an untruth written by Brennan in her second (and infinitely better)
book.

CM:

Quote:
>    A friend of mine actually started going through Inside Edge looking for

errors and distorted truths and found over 50 in the first 75 pages.

Peg:
No argument that the first book was less well written than the second, but I'd
love to see the errata your friend compliled. <g> I recall quite a few
regarding the Harding/Gillooly fiasco in 1994.

CM:

Quote:
>      Another example....in Edge of Glory, she says Michael Weiss should have

had the first quad count at Nationals even though he did slightly two-foot
it...she quotes*** Button as saying, So What..it was a great effort!!

Peg:
Now, to me, this passage in Edge of Glory (the second book, p.29-36) clearly
reported all sides of the near-landing of the quad at 1997 Nationals. It
described the Weiss camp POV, the reporters' POV, the USFSA's POV (the judging
situation - no replay so high marks, the record book situation - replay showed
two-foot so not officially a quad), as well as Button's POV and why he would
say "who cares," since he has been given credit for first landings of jumps
that were (by his own admission) not precisely clean. But not once does
Brennan herself say or imply her feelings on the matter of whether or not
Weiss' quad *should* have been officially recognized. (On p.45 she described
the LP in question from the POV of an unaided audience eye, which saw only one
apparent flaw - perhaps that passage was what gave the impression that she
felt it was clean and should count?)

CM:

Quote:
>     Well, if slight two-foots were to be forgiven, then Brian Boitano would

have had the first quad at Worlds in l988, and Michael wouldn't have been in
the running. But Brennan probably wasn't aware that Boitano landed a quad toe
with only a very slight two-foot (similar to Weiss) at that Worlds....do you
count this as an inaccuracy or just ignorance?

Peg:
I count this - telling the reader how Weiss, his camp, the commentators, the
press and the governing body's rep reacted to and spoke about his near-quad at
1997 Nationals - as reporting all sides of an event, neither inaccurate not
misinformed.

Thanks for the examples. I do appreciate the trouble. <g>

 
 
 

Christine Brennan (Please tell me!)

Post by BielmnSp » Wed, 08 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Quote:
>   Well, my favorite example (in Inside Edge) is the one about Katarina
>Witt's
>blade falling off when she did a triple toe
>    The problem with this scenario  is that Katarina picks with her LEFT foot
>and lands on her RIGHT foot when doing a triple toe loop. If the toe pick
>stuck
>on the ice then the blade would have fallen off her LEFT foot, but she still
>would have had a blade to land on on her RIGHT foot
>         . I actually asked Brennan about this at a book signing, and her
>answer was that Katarina didn' t do her triple toe like all other skaters
>because she was East German, and she picked with her RIGHT foot and landed on
>her RIGHT foot.......when I said that this would make it a triple flip (which
>Katarina has never done as a pro and rarely as an amateur), Brennan answered
>that it would be a triple toe in East Germany!!!!................ (oh
>really?)

Then it wouldn't be a toe loop, now would it?! Haha! I had to chuckle when I
saw this. I never really picked out any mistakes when I first read "Inside
Edge" (it just wasn't close reading) but now I am finding out there are boat
loads of them. Now I don't even know if I should put "Edge of Glory" on my
birthday list!
-Katja
~*~Die dummsten Bauern haben die gr?ssesten Kartoffeln!~*~- anon., from Frau M.
~Denise Biellmann: Die Erste Frau die der dreifache Lutz schaffte.~
 
 
 

Christine Brennan (Please tell me!)

Post by Virginia Blalo » Wed, 08 Jul 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
>     Well, if slight two-foots were to be forgiven, then Brian Boitano would
>have had the first quad at Worlds in l988, and Michael wouldn't have been in
>the running. But Brennan probably wasn't aware that Boitano landed a quad toe
>with only a very slight two-foot (similar to Weiss) at that Worlds....do you
>count this as an inaccuracy or just ignorance?

Well. Brian would have been the first *American* to land the quad.
Kurt of course got the honor because he skated before Brian.
 
 
 

Christine Brennan (Please tell me!)

Post by Trudi Marrapo » Wed, 08 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Quote:


> >     Well, if slight two-foots were to be forgiven, then Brian Boitano would
> >have had the first quad at Worlds in l988, and Michael wouldn't have been in
> >the running. But Brennan probably wasn't aware that Boitano landed a quad toe
> >with only a very slight two-foot (similar to Weiss) at that Worlds....do you
> >count this as an inaccuracy or just ignorance?

> Well. Brian would have been the first *American* to land the quad.
> Kurt of course got the honor because he skated before Brian.

And that aside, it *wasn't* a two-foot that disqualified Boitano's later
quad. It was the fact that he hopped right out of the one-foot landing--he
obviously didn't have control of the edge, so he hopped right on out of
it. However, he hopped on one foot.

A clarifier: some fans in the past have mistakenly implied that only
through "luck of the draw" did Boitano miss the chance to attempt the quad
at '88 worlds before Kurt Browning. Not so. Because Boitano had won the
short program and Browning had placed considerably lower, the two men were
not even in the same draw group for the freeskate. Thus, it would have
been impossible for Boitano to skate ahead of Browning in the free and
have first crack at the quad that night. And, ironically, Kurt earned his
first crack by virtue of his poor short program. (Not to blame him out of
proportion-*every* man except Boitano had a pretty crappy short program at
that worlds.) Kurt skated in the penultimate flight and Brian in the last.
(Of course, Brian *and* Brian skated in the last flight. ;-))

Also, I was reading Ellen Edgerton's otherwise fine collection of quad
historical moments when I noticed that she neglects to mention that
Boitano attempted the quad not only at '87 nationals and '88 worlds, but
also '87 worlds. IIRC, he two-footed it *and* fell. But it would be better
to go to the tape.

Trudi

 
 
 

Christine Brennan (Please tell me!)

Post by Ellen B. Edgert » Wed, 08 Jul 1998 04:00:00

: Also, I was reading Ellen Edgerton's otherwise fine collection of quad
: historical moments when I noticed that she neglects to mention that
: Boitano attempted the quad not only at '87 nationals and '88 worlds, but
: also '87 worlds. IIRC, he two-footed it *and* fell. But it would be better
: to go to the tape.

Sadly this is true.  I have received so many "yes he did" "no he didn't"
notices in the mail about Boitano and the quad that the only way I can
possibly know for sure is to watch the tapes myself.  Or else digitize the
videos somehow and say "Here -- YOU make up your mind, gentle reader."

 
 
 

Christine Brennan (Please tell me!)

Post by Jessica Kala » Wed, 08 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Quote:


> >     Well, if slight two-foots were to be forgiven, then Brian Boitano would
> >have had the first quad at Worlds in l988, and Michael wouldn't have been in
> >the running. But Brennan probably wasn't aware that Boitano landed a quad toe
> >with only a very slight two-foot (similar to Weiss) at that Worlds....do you
> >count this as an inaccuracy or just ignorance?

> Well. Brian would have been the first *American* to land the quad.
> Kurt of course got the honor because he skated before Brian.

  And even before that Jozef Sabovcik at the 86 Worlds which was also just
slightly two-footed to the judge's viewpoint :-).

Jess

 
 
 

Christine Brennan (Please tell me!)

Post by Trudi Marrapo » Wed, 08 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Quote:



> > >     Well, if slight two-foots were to be forgiven, then Brian
Boitano would
> > >have had the first quad at Worlds in l988, and Michael wouldn't have
been in
> > >the running. But Brennan probably wasn't aware that Boitano landed a
quad toe
> > >with only a very slight two-foot (similar to Weiss) at that
Worlds....do you
> > >count this as an inaccuracy or just ignorance?

> > Well. Brian would have been the first *American* to land the quad.
> > Kurt of course got the honor because he skated before Brian.

>   And even before that Jozef Sabovcik at the 86 Worlds which was also just
> slightly two-footed to the judge's viewpoint :-).

As Ellen's page points out. really, we could go 'round and 'round in
circles on this thing. Scott Hamilton seems to believe that the reason
Sabovcik didn't get credit from the ISU was pure politics. I.e., whose
camera would be considered proof, CBS's or the ISU's. Scott claims if the
CBS booth is to be believed, Sabovcik landed the quad, but that the ISU
chose to use its own cameras instead and ruled no. And so it goes on...

Trudi

 
 
 

Christine Brennan (Please tell me!)

Post by CrnbrryM » Wed, 08 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Quote:
>Boitano attempted the quad not only at '87 nationals and '88 worlds, but
>also '87 worlds. IIRC, he two-footed it *and* fell. But it would be better
>to go to the tape.

>Trudi

   It depends on your definition of a " fall". In '87 Worlds, BB two-footed the
landing, stumbled and put his hands down...he did not, however, completely
leave his feet and fall to the ice.

Marty

 
 
 

Christine Brennan (Please tell me!)

Post by CrnbrryM » Wed, 08 Jul 1998 04:00:00

      Guess what, folks. I actually got a reply from Christine Brennan (or at
least she says it is.)She said she "doesn't remember"  talking to me at a
book-signing about Katarina's triple toe loop, but  adds that she must have
been *only joking* about the triple toe loop being different  in East Germany  
... She still doesn't explain how Kat's blade fell off her" landing foot"  when
she picks with her other one!!!

      She then says that it was Slavka Kahout herself who said she was getting
old and that her" choreography is not so good anymore"...[.but doesn't explain
why she (Brennan) didn't mention about Kahout doing those great programs for
Shepard Clark, or if she even knew about them.]

    Brennan then says she was only quoting*** Button about Weiss' attempt
being a good one. She says she KNEW about Boitano's attempt [, but evidently
didn't see the connection between a two-foot being OK for Mike Weiss but not
for Brian B or Josef S.]

    She asked me to post these *corrections* to the newsgroup, and asked me not
to give out her e-mail address. If  anyone wants to e-mail her, please send it
to me and I will forward it.

    However, it is obvious she reads this newsgroup, so I think you could
address anything to her here and know she would read it as long as her name was
in the heading

   She says (and I quote) "My work is very important to me and I take great
pride in it"
What a shame she isn't any better at knowing   what she still doesn't know
about skating.

Marty.

 
 
 

Christine Brennan (Please tell me!)

Post by Sandra Loosemor » Wed, 08 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> As Ellen's page points out. really, we could go 'round and 'round in
> circles on this thing. Scott Hamilton seems to believe that the reason
> Sabovcik didn't get credit from the ISU was pure politics. I.e., whose
> camera would be considered proof, CBS's or the ISU's. Scott claims if the
> CBS booth is to be believed, Sabovcik landed the quad, but that the ISU
> chose to use its own cameras instead and ruled no. And so it goes on...

OTOH, in press reports from the event back in 1986, Sabovcik was
quoted as admitting that he two-footed the jump slightly.  (Yes, I
looked this up once.)  Hamilton, I guess, only remembers what *he*
thought it looked like at the time.  Maybe he's got Jozef brainwashed
into believing it by now, too.  :-P

-Sandra

 
 
 

Christine Brennan (Please tell me!)

Post by Jessica Kala » Wed, 08 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Quote:


> >   And even before that Jozef Sabovcik at the 86 Worlds which was also just
> > slightly two-footed to the judge's viewpoint :-).

> As Ellen's page points out. really, we could go 'round and 'round in
> circles on this thing. Scott Hamilton seems to believe that the reason
> Sabovcik didn't get credit from the ISU was pure politics. I.e., whose
> camera would be considered proof, CBS's or the ISU's. Scott claims if the
> CBS booth is to be believed, Sabovcik landed the quad, but that the ISU
> chose to use its own cameras instead and ruled no. And so it goes on...

> Trudi

Uh Trudi...you did see my smiley at the end of the post right? I know the
circular nature of this argument and I wasn't talking about the controversy of it
at all. Yes, the ISU did rule no, because they saw it as slightly two footed
which is what we were talking about and what I said - slightly two footed quad
attempts. But I was really doing it with tongue in cheek to point out the
circular nature of all this....

Jess

 
 
 

Christine Brennan (Please tell me!)

Post by Jessica Kala » Wed, 08 Jul 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> OTOH, in press reports from the event back in 1986, Sabovcik was
> quoted as admitting that he two-footed the jump slightly.  (Yes, I
> looked this up once.)  Hamilton, I guess, only remembers what *he*
> thought it looked like at the time.  Maybe he's got Jozef brainwashed
> into believing it by now, too.  :-P

> -Sandra

  Actually Jozef's never really cared one way or the other - it's not as big a
deal to him as it is to Scotty. But nobody was saying what Jozef thinks or what
Scotty thinks or what a certain fan (me) thinks anyway in the original post. I
just said that he was another who had a slight two-footed landing from the
judge's viewpoint, and that was only to point out how ridiculous this whole
thing of Brennan's was cuz of how circular an argument it is.

Jess