World's Exhibitions -- How depressing!

World's Exhibitions -- How depressing!

Post by Jave » Wed, 28 May 1997 04:00:00


The exhibition skating from Worlds, broadcast yesterday on ESPN, left
me depressed. It brought back to mind all the disappointments of
Worlds. In each event, I found the silver medal winner far more
satisfying than the gold medalist.

Yes, even in pairs! Granted that Ingo Steuer is great looking (and
looks do count), he and Mandy Woetzel are basically a boring pair. The
e***ment they generate is in the fear that they will shed *** on
the ice. Eltsova and Bushkov, though not particularly charismatic,
skate smoother, cleaner, and more dependably -- they just need some
music and costuming advice. The exhibitions reminded us that the real
e***ment, however, comes from Kazakova and Dmitriev.

As for the other categories:  I keep trying to like Grisuk and Platov,
but I think that is an impossibility. Tiny Tara, unfortunately for
skating, has reached the summit prematurely. And Stojko is just not my
cup of tea. The exhibitions just emphasized the shortcoming of the
gold medalists by contrasting them with the really "first rate"
skating and presence of Krylova and Ovsiannikov, Kwan, and Eldredge.

     Javed

 
 
 

World's Exhibitions -- How depressing!

Post by Cycys » Wed, 28 May 1997 04:00:00


Quote:
(Javed) writes:
> In each event, I found the silver medal winner far more
>satisfying than the gold medalist.

 That's exactly the way I found it. Except, for the pairs event. It should
have been K&D.

Quote:
>Yes, even in pairs! Granted that Ingo Steuer is great looking (and
>looks do count), he and Mandy Woetzel are basically a boring pair. The
>e***ment they generate is in the fear that they will shed *** on
>the ice.<<

 I wouldn't exactly say that they're boring, not compared to such
pairs as say E&B and I&D. What they are is, well, there isn't a
word for it. E&B may be boring but at least they communicate
well. When W&S skate, you don't feel the joy and passion you
get when others do. They skate like they just want to go and get
everything over and done with, maybe that's why they're so accident
prone. They don't seem to want to take their time with things.

Quote:
> Eltsova and Bushkov, though not particularly charismatic,
>skate smoother, cleaner, and more dependably -- they just need some
>music and costuming advice. The exhibitions reminded us that the real
>e***ment, however, comes from Kazakova and Dmitriev.

 K&D, ahh yes. The only reason I watch amateur pairs to begin with.
I'm looking forward to their new programs since they always seem
to have the best choreography.

Quote:
>As for the other categories:  I keep trying to like Grisuk and Platov,
>but I think that is an impossibility. Tiny Tara, unfortunately for
>skating, has reached the summit prematurely. And Stojko is just not my
>cup of tea. The exhibitions just emphasized the shortcoming of the
>gold medalists by contrasting them with the really "first rate"
>skating and presence of Krylova and Ovsiannikov, Kwan, and Eldredge.

>     Javed

  That's funny, I agree again. BTW, you've got great taste.

 Jam

*************************************
"There are only three cities in America, San Francisco, New Orleans and New
York."- Tennessee Williams  

Of course, I disagree with San Francisco. It's just a bad imitation of New Orleans.

 
 
 

World's Exhibitions -- How depressing!

Post by Jane Hu » Wed, 28 May 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> The exhibition skating from Worlds, broadcast yesterday on ESPN, left
> me depressed. It brought back to mind all the disappointments of
> Worlds. In each event, I found the silver medal winner far more
> satisfying than the gold medalist.

> Yes, even in pairs! Granted that Ingo Steuer is great looking (and
> looks do count), he and Mandy Woetzel are basically a boring pair.

In exhibitions, maybe you have a point -- but in competition, I find
them anything BUT boring! They are fast, and they do very difficult
lifts, jumps, and connecting moves.

In exhibitions, I think they tend to hold back -- much like Brasseur
and Eisler, whose lifts in competition were amazing but whose
exhibitions (while entertaining) were not as athletic.

 The

Quote:
> e***ment they generate is in the fear that they will shed *** on
> the ice. Eltsova and Bushkov, though not particularly charismatic,
> skate smoother, cleaner, and more dependably -- they just need some
> music and costuming advice.

But they fall apart somewhat under the pressure of competition,
so they are not nearly as confident when they do their competitive
programs as when they do their exhibitions.

 The exhibitions reminded us that the real

Quote:
> e***ment, however, comes from Kazakova and Dmitriev.

Sometimes, they're great in competition, and sometimes they're
very nervous in competition. Come to think of it, sometimes
they're great in exhibition and sometimes they're awful -- for
them, it doesn't seem to depend on the pressure but on something
else -- maybe what they had for lunch? I don't know.

Quote:

> As for the other categories:  I keep trying to like Grisuk and Platov,
> but I think that is an impossibility. Tiny Tara, unfortunately for
> skating, has reached the summit prematurely. And Stojko is just not my
> cup of tea. The exhibitions just emphasized the shortcoming of the
> gold medalists by contrasting them with the really "first rate"
> skating and presence of Krylova and Ovsiannikov, Kwan, and Eldredge.

But exhibitions are exhibitions, and for eligible competitions, what
matters is who lands what AT THE MOMENT THAT IT COUNTS FOR MARKS.

Some skaters thrive under pressure, some wilt.

And some skaters do very tough, DANGEROUS tricks for competition,
and are not willing to risk the danger for an exhibition, so they
scale back somewhat.

For me, the competition is a big part of why I watch skating. And
the exhibitions, while nice and entertaining, are simply that -- nice
and entertaining.

I can compare it to my own sport -- there are many people who are
much better than me when practicing at home -- but I can beat the
pants off them at competition because I don't get flustered at the
pressure of having to DO IT CORRECTLY, RIGHT NOW!

Jane

 
 
 

World's Exhibitions -- How depressing!

Post by Jave » Thu, 29 May 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

>> Granted that Ingo Steuer is great looking (and
>>looks do count), he and Mandy Woetzel are basically a boring pair. The
>>e***ment they generate is in the fear that they will shed *** on
>>the ice.<<


> I wouldn't exactly say that they're boring,      (snip)      
> When W&S skate, you don't feel the joy and passion you
>get when others do. They skate like they just want to go and get
>everything over and done with, maybe that's why they're so accident
>prone. They don't seem to want to take their time with things.

Thanks, Jam, your analysis of W&S is right on! You've expressed it
exactly right: they don't project "joy and passion" in their skating.

     Javed

 
 
 

World's Exhibitions -- How depressing!

Post by Jave » Thu, 29 May 1997 04:00:00



Quote:

>But exhibitions are exhibitions, and for eligible competitions, what
>matters is who lands what AT THE MOMENT THAT IT COUNTS FOR MARKS.

>Some skaters thrive under pressure, some wilt.

>And some skaters do very tough, DANGEROUS tricks for competition,
>and are not willing to risk the danger for an exhibition, so they
>scale back somewhat.

>For me, the competition is a big part of why I watch skating. And
>the exhibitions, while nice and entertaining, are simply that -- nice
>and entertaining.

Jane, of course you are right about the difference between competition
and exhibition. The point of my post was that seeing the exhibitions a
few months after the competition reminded me of my disappointment in
who had won. The winners may all have deserved to win because they
came through with the trick when it counted, but that doesn't make me
LIKE them -- for one reason or another I just can't accept any of the
winners as my idea of World Champion. In fact, in each case (excepting
pairs), my preference is for "anyone but . . ." the one who won. (I
don't feel that strongly regarding Woetzel and Steuer.) Yes, this is
purely subjective and has nothing to do with the exhibition
perfomances, which were just the catalyst for my post.
     Javed
 
 
 

World's Exhibitions -- How depressing!

Post by Mary E Tyle » Fri, 30 May 1997 04:00:00

Quote:


> >> Granted that Ingo Steuer is great looking (and
> >>looks do count), he and Mandy Woetzel are basically a boring pair. The
> >>e***ment they generate is in the fear that they will shed *** on
> >>the ice.<<


> > I wouldn't exactly say that they're boring,      (snip)
> > When W&S skate, you don't feel the joy and passion you
> >get when others do. They skate like they just want to go and get
> >everything over and done with, maybe that's why they're so accident
> >prone. They don't seem to want to take their time with things.

> Thanks, Jam, your analysis of W&S is right on! You've expressed it
> exactly right: they don't project "joy and passion" in their skating.

>      Javed

w&s are technicians. not artists then huh?
dejah
 
 
 

World's Exhibitions -- How depressing!

Post by Jave » Sat, 31 May 1997 04:00:00



Quote:


>> >> Granted that Ingo Steuer is great looking (and
>> >>looks do count), he and Mandy Woetzel are basically a boring pair. The
>> >>e***ment they generate is in the fear that they will shed *** on
>> >>the ice.<<


>> > I wouldn't exactly say that they're boring,      (snip)
>> > When W&S skate, you don't feel the joy and passion you
>> >get when others do. They skate like they just want to go and get
>> >everything over and done with, maybe that's why they're so accident
>> >prone. They don't seem to want to take their time with things.

>> Thanks, Jam, your analysis of W&S is right on! You've expressed it
>> exactly right: they don't project "joy and passion" in their skating.

>>      Javed
>w&s are technicians. not artists then huh?
>dejah

W&S as technicians? As artists? I don't know, maybe some of both --
but primarily they're just athletes. In my original post, I referred
to them as "boring," but Jam's description really got to the essence
of the way I feel about them -- and obviously the way Jam feels about
them. You know, just because a person's work doesn't resonate in my
soul doesn't mean it doesn't thrill someone else. We don't all like
the same artists. Or the same technicians, for that matter!
     Javed
 
 
 

World's Exhibitions -- How depressing!

Post by Cycys » Mon, 02 Jun 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>In exhibitions, maybe you have a point -- but in competition, I find
>them anything BUT boring! They are fast, and they do very difficult
>lifts, jumps, and connecting moves.

  The only thing I like about W&S is their speed and their lifts.
I also loved their short program, but I only saw it once and I don't
have it on tape. Memories are all I have, darn it. In their exhibitions,
they looks way too tentative like they'll fall apart any moment.
They didn't look very steady during their balance moves for one.

Quote:
>>Sometimes, they're great in competition, and sometimes they're

very nervous in competition. Come to think of it, sometimes
they're great in exhibition and sometimes they're awful -- for
them, it doesn't seem to depend on the pressure but on something
else -- maybe what they had for lunch? I don't know.<<

  I think the reason for those mistakes were that they were trying
out new, difficult and riskier moves. Or of course it couldn't have
been what they had for lunch. Maybe just bad luck, but they are
getting better!

 Jam

*************************************
"There are only three cities in America, San Francisco, New Orleans and New
York."- Tennessee Williams  

Of course, I disagree with San Francisco. It's just a bad imitation of New Orleans.

 
 
 

World's Exhibitions -- How depressing!

Post by Debby M. Forti » Tue, 03 Jun 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
>  The only thing I like about W&S is their speed and their lifts.

They do have incredible speed.  Not the power that K/D have, but a more
refined type of speed.  But I find the lifts are their weak point.  She has
nice air position, but Ingo's feet are not very clean on the turns and the
lifts don't carry very far.  I was wowed by the height and distance of the
throws at last year's Worlds.

Debby

 
 
 

World's Exhibitions -- How depressing!

Post by Cycys » Tue, 03 Jun 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>They do have incredible speed.  Not the power that K/D have, but a more
>refined type of speed.  But I find the lifts are their weak point.  She
has
>nice air position, but Ingo's feet are not very clean on the turns and
the
>lifts don't carry very far.  I was wowed by the height and distance of
the
>throws at last year's Worlds.

>Debby

 Hmmm, well I do always look at the girl during the lifts. I'll be sure
to look for that next time. I always thought their lifts were their
best aspect. Oh well. BTW, are they faster than K&D? I'm
hoping that maybe K&D would be the fastest.

 Jam

*************************************
"There are only three cities in America, San Francisco, New Orleans and New
York."- Tennessee Williams  

Of course, I disagree with San Francisco. It's just a bad imitation of New Orleans.

 
 
 

World's Exhibitions -- How depressing!

Post by Debby M. Forti » Fri, 06 Jun 1997 04:00:00

Quote:
> Hmmm, well I do always look at the girl during the lifts. I'll be sure
>to look for that next time. I always thought their lifts were their
>best aspect. Oh well. BTW, are they faster than K&D? I'm
>hoping that maybe K&D would be the fastest.

It's hard to do tell, so I would almost guess that they'd be pretty much the
same.  It's just that K/D ooze more power, in a raw sense than W/S.  Now I saw
them live last year, so perhaps with the passing of another year Artur and
Oksana are faster.  I remember being most impressed by the German's speed last
year at practices.  Perhaps the fact their speed is a more refined speed is
what was impressive.  I like finish and polish so I lean more towards that
kind of a pair, so I may be somewhat prejudicial in my observations.

Debby