Sport Today

by **Skatephi** » Tue, 25 Dec 2001 02:28:01

Complete results/marks at:
http://www.comnet-corp.co.jp/jsfresults/National/2001-2002/Figure/All...

Men's Final results (top 8)
1. Yosuke TAKEUCHI 3 1 2.5
2. Yamato TAMURA 2 2 3.0
3. Makoto OKAZAKI 1 5 5.5
4. Kensuke NAKANIWA 7 3 6.5
5. Daisuke TAKAHASHI 8 4 8.0
6. Yutaka TSURU 6 6 9.0
7. Eiji IWAMOTO 4 7 9.0
8. Soshi TANAKA 5 8 10.5

Men's FS jump notes (in order of final results, not FS order):
1. Takeuchi 4T(2ft), 1A, 3Lz2T, A(pop), 2Lp, 3S, 3F
2. Tamura 4T(fall), 4T(step out), 2Lz, 2Lp, 2S, 3Lz3T, 3F3T(step out, hand
down), 2S, 2A
3. Okazaki 3A(fall), 3Lp, 4T(fall), 2Lz, 3F, 3S, 1A, 3Lz, 3T
4. Nakaniwa 3A(step out), 4T, 3Lz2T, 3F, 3Lp, 3F2T, 3S, 3T(fall)
5. Takahashi 1A, 3Lz3Lp, 3Lp, 3A(fall), 3S(fall), 3Lz, 3F, 1A

Ladies' Final results (top 8)
1. Fumie SUGURI 1 1 1.5
2. Shizuka ARAKAWA 2 2 3.0
3. Miki ANDO 3 3 4.5
4. Akiko SUZUKI 6 4 7.0
5. Yukari NAKANO 4 5 7.0
6. Utako WAKAMATSU 7 6 9.5
7. Kanako TAKAHASHI 5 7 9.5
8. Ichie HAYASHI 8 8 12.0
(Note: Fumie's younger sister, Chika, placed 19th overall)

Ladies' FS jump notes (in order of FS and overall placement):
1. Suguri 3Lz2T, 3F, 3S, 3LP(underrotated, 2ft), 3Lz, 3T2T, 2A
2. Arakawa 3Lz2T, 3S2LP, 3F(fall), 1A, 3Lz(fall), 3Lp, 3T3T(toe scrape)
3. Ando 3T, 3Lz3Lp, 2A1/2Lp3S, 3Lp, 3Lz, 2A
4. Suzuki 3Lz2T, 3T, 1Lp1Lp, 2A, 3F(underrotated), 3Lz, 3S
5. Nakano 3Lz2T, 3F2T, 2S, 3LP, 3Lz, 3F(underrotated), 3T, 2A

Team Assignments:
Olympics: Onda, Suguri; Honda, Takeuchi
4Cs: Onda, Arakawa, Suzuki; Honda, Tamura, Okazaki
Worlds: Onda, Honda (rest of team to be decided after the Olys, 4Cs)

--Sylvia

by **Sarah Ram** » Tue, 25 Dec 2001 05:59:55

<snip>

Quote:

> Men's FS jump notes (in order of final results, not FS order):
> 1. Takeuchi 4T(2ft), 1A, 3Lz2T, A(pop), 2Lp, 3S, 3F
> 2. Tamura 4T(fall), 4T(step out), 2Lz, 2Lp, 2S, 3Lz3T, 3F3T(step out, hand
> down), 2S, 2A
> 3. Okazaki 3A(fall), 3Lp, 4T(fall), 2Lz, 3F, 3S, 1A, 3Lz, 3T
> 4. Nakaniwa 3A(step out), 4T, 3Lz2T, 3F, 3Lp, 3F2T, 3S, 3T(fall)
> 5. Takahashi 1A, 3Lz3Lp, 3Lp, 3A(fall), 3S(fall), 3Lz, 3F, 1A

Why can't Japanese men do triple axels?

--Sarah

by **PosterBo** » Tue, 25 Dec 2001 09:22:57

Quote:

> <snip>

> > Men's FS jump notes (in order of final results, not FS order):
> > 1. Takeuchi 4T(2ft), 1A, 3Lz2T, A(pop), 2Lp, 3S, 3F
> > 2. Tamura 4T(fall), 4T(step out), 2Lz, 2Lp, 2S, 3Lz3T, 3F3T(step out,
hand
> > down), 2S, 2A
> > 3. Okazaki 3A(fall), 3Lp, 4T(fall), 2Lz, 3F, 3S, 1A, 3Lz, 3T
> > 4. Nakaniwa 3A(step out), 4T, 3Lz2T, 3F, 3Lp, 3F2T, 3S, 3T(fall)
> > 5. Takahashi 1A, 3Lz3Lp, 3Lp, 3A(fall), 3S(fall), 3Lz, 3F, 1A

> Why can't Japanese men do triple axels?

I do not plan to touch this one.
Would someone who is versed in current anti-racism approaches, please
comment?
Many thanks.

Cheers.

by **Sandra Loosemor** » Tue, 25 Dec 2001 09:47:45

Quote:

> > <snip>

> > > Men's FS jump notes (in order of final results, not FS order):
> > > 1. Takeuchi 4T(2ft), 1A, 3Lz2T, A(pop), 2Lp, 3S, 3F
> > > 2. Tamura 4T(fall), 4T(step out), 2Lz, 2Lp, 2S, 3Lz3T, 3F3T(step out,
> hand
> > > down), 2S, 2A
> > > 3. Okazaki 3A(fall), 3Lp, 4T(fall), 2Lz, 3F, 3S, 1A, 3Lz, 3T
> > > 4. Nakaniwa 3A(step out), 4T, 3Lz2T, 3F, 3Lp, 3F2T, 3S, 3T(fall)
> > > 5. Takahashi 1A, 3Lz3Lp, 3Lp, 3A(fall), 3S(fall), 3Lz, 3F, 1A

> > Why can't Japanese men do triple axels?

> I do not plan to touch this one.
> Would someone who is versed in current anti-racism approaches, please
> comment?

I think you're being hypersensitive to categorize that as a racist
remark. I think it's a legitimate commentary to note that none of the
top men at Japanese nationals were able to land a triple axel. When
somebody makes a general remark about the sad state of ladies' skating
at Canadian nationals, do you assume that's a racist attack against
Canadians?

-Sandra

by **Sarah Ram** » Tue, 25 Dec 2001 13:58:57

Quote:

> > > <snip>

> > > > Men's FS jump notes (in order of final results, not FS order):
> > > > 1. Takeuchi 4T(2ft), 1A, 3Lz2T, A(pop), 2Lp, 3S, 3F
> > > > 2. Tamura 4T(fall), 4T(step out), 2Lz, 2Lp, 2S, 3Lz3T, 3F3T(step out,
> hand
> > > > down), 2S, 2A
> > > > 3. Okazaki 3A(fall), 3Lp, 4T(fall), 2Lz, 3F, 3S, 1A, 3Lz, 3T
> > > > 4. Nakaniwa 3A(step out), 4T, 3Lz2T, 3F, 3Lp, 3F2T, 3S, 3T(fall)
> > > > 5. Takahashi 1A, 3Lz3Lp, 3Lp, 3A(fall), 3S(fall), 3Lz, 3F, 1A

> > > Why can't Japanese men do triple axels?

> > I do not plan to touch this one.
> > Would someone who is versed in current anti-racism approaches, please
> > comment?

> I think you're being hypersensitive to categorize that as a racist
> remark. I think it's a legitimate commentary to note that none of the
> top men at Japanese nationals were able to land a triple axel. When
> somebody makes a general remark about the sad state of ladies' skating
> at Canadian nationals, do you assume that's a racist attack against
> Canadians?

Thank you, Sandra (and Naomi). No, it was not at all a racist remark.
And, PosterBoy, if you knew the skating-related project I was working
on for one of my classes right now, you'd see that I myself am quite
"versed in current anti-racism approaches."

--Sarah

by **janet swan hi** » Wed, 26 Dec 2001 03:07:06

Quote:

>> Why can't Japanese men do triple axels?

> I do not plan to touch this one.
> Would someone who is versed in current anti-racism approaches, please
>comment?

Ummmm. Methinks there's nothing racist about the question. Please recall
the recend threads about why Canadian men can't do a sitspin, and why American
women can't lutz, why Russian skaters have wimpy spirals, and more distant
threads about why Swiss skaters spin so well.

It's a question about training techniques, or maybe about what a particular
country/culture seems to value in skating. It's curious: why would those
other threads go unremarked, while this one would be viewed (by anyone at all)
as racist?

janet
janet

by **sleep depriv** » Thu, 27 Dec 2001 07:49:54

Quote:

>there's nothing racist about the question. Please recall
> the recend threads about why Canadian men can't do a sitspin, and why American
> women can't lutz, why Russian skaters have wimpy spirals
--snip--
>It's curious: why would those
> other threads go unremarked, while this one would be viewed (by anyone at all)
> as racist?

>janet

That's because the populations in all of the countries you mentioned
above are pre***ly White, while Japanese skaters are, well,
Japanese (who fall under the panethnic category, Asians), AND we are
making a generalized observation about a group of people as a whole.
e.g., comparing the jumping technique of German women and that of
Swedish women won't have any racial implications, as they are both
largely (or perhaps all) White. By contrast, a similar comparison
between women from one of these European/North-American countries and
women from Japan would have inherent and unavoidable racial
components. A discussion on "top American women skaters," however,
may have a different tone, because women of color (e.g., lots of
Asians and some African-Americans) have been quite *** in the
U.S. skating scene.

So, when there is a discussion by North Americans on why a group of
men from a particular non-White racial/ethnic/national background
lacks a particular skill, it is bound to carry some racial
implications, intended or not. Having said that, I don't think this
thread has been racist at all, at least so far.

by **Jani** » Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:11:36

Quote:

>So, when there is a discussion by North Americans on why a group of
>men from a particular non-White racial/ethnic/national background
>lacks a particular skill, it is bound to carry some racial
>implications, intended or not.

Wow, lots of assuming going on here. All North Americans are not white. You
don't know what the ethnic/racial background is of the people who post here.
You can't even be sure what the background is of the person who made the
original statement, unless you've met them in person.

Janice

Kitty Math: Two kittens (aka Buffy and Jody) + one computer desk + bedroom
speedway = maimed humans

by **janet swan hi** » Fri, 28 Dec 2001 08:27:19

Quote:

>So, when there is a discussion by North Americans on why a group of
>men from a particular non-White racial/ethnic/national background
>lacks a particular skill, it is bound to carry some racial
>implications, intended or not. Having said that, I don't think this
>thread has been racist at all, at least so far.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I hadn't put it together that way in my mind
before. I had been wrestling with this thought: that skaters representing
Japan are pretty much racially homogeneous ..... [leaving aside the occasional
Russian dance or pair partner who is not racially Japanese] ..... while in the
US and Canada there have been a number of successful/prominent skaters of
various racial backgrounds, so the skating teams from those countries are often
far from racially homogeneous. And I guess that's why I so clearly saw the
comment as being about things other than race.

janet

by **Ted Chiha** » Sat, 29 Dec 2001 03:50:51

Quote:

> >So, when there is a discussion by North Americans on why a group of
> >men from a particular non-White racial/ethnic/national background
> >lacks a particular skill, it is bound to carry some racial
> >implications, intended or not. Having said that, I don't think this
> >thread has been racist at all, at least so far.

> Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I hadn't put it together that way in my mind
> before. I had been wrestling with this thought: that skaters representing
> Japan are pretty much racially homogeneous ..... [leaving aside the occasional
> Russian dance or pair partner who is not racially Japanese] ..... while in the
> US and Canada there have been a number of successful/prominent skaters of
> various racial backgrounds, so the skating teams from those countries are often
> far from racially homogeneous. And I guess that's why I so clearly saw the
> comment as being about things other than race.

> janet

I agree but even if the comment was about race, I think the question
could
be taken as a legitimate, non-racist comment. If Japanese males were
consistently unable to complete clean triple Axels (I think Honda is
frequently
successful with his), I would wonder why not. And if this was also
true of Chinese skaters (which it is not), I would then wonder if
there was some characteristic of Asian males which might contribute to
such a failing. I realize this might not be PC for a Caucasian to
question, just as it isn't PC for non-blacks to wonder what is the
reason so many African Americans have the spring that enables them to
fly so beautifully when they dunk.

Thus, if it is true generally (not just an aberration of this year's
Japanese
nationals), I would be inclined to question Japanese coaching.
Honda's general
success with the triple axel might then be attributed to Doug Leigh's
coaching.
Hmm ..., Honda also tends to do the "stoop spin" and he's coached by a
Canadian??? (But one of these days, I expect to see a Canadian do a
genuine Fratianne sit spin.)

Ted Chihara

Sport Today

Japanese Nats - ladies'/men's results & assignments

Japanese Nats - ladies'/men's results & assignments

Japanese Nats - ladies'/men's results & assignments

Japanese Nats - ladies'/men's results & assignments

Japanese Nats - ladies'/men's results & assignments

Japanese Nats - ladies'/men's results & assignments

Japanese Nats - ladies'/men's results & assignments

Japanese Nats - ladies'/men's results & assignments

Japanese Nats - ladies'/men's results & assignments

Japanese Nats - ladies'/men's results & assignments

Japanese Nats - ladies'/men's results & assignments