Please Explain G&P To Me

Please Explain G&P To Me

Post by Fiona McQuarr » Wed, 27 Mar 1996 04:00:00


[ Article crossposted from rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational ]
[ Author was Fiona McQuarrie ]
[ Posted on 26 Mar 1996 21:36:56 GMT ]

It's no secret that I dislike Gritschuk and Platov, but I am really quite
at a loss to explain why they have won so much this season.

Their technique is not noticeably better or worse than any of the other
top five couples. They are probably the fastest, but speed does not equal
technique. At Worlds I was also quite surprised with their interpretation
of the Tango. The CFSA/ISU rules say that this dance is to be "soft,
lyrical and sensuous". Their interpretation of it was extremely choppy and
sharp, with lots of ugly little kicks and angular arm movements. Why was
this interpretation rated more highly than the other dancers, who were
much more in the spirit that the rulebook suggests?

Other problems I had with them:
- every single part of the competition they skated either began or ended
with Gritschuk doing that annoying "sensual" (ha) slither up and down
Platov's torso. No matter what the music was or what the dance was, they
had to throw this move in.
- their costumes. Shudder. Did Gritschuk leave the face jewels on for the
"samba" dance because she stuck them on with too much glue for the Paso
Doble?
- their incessant mugging and exaggerated *** expressions.

I am willing to admit that G&P have a different style than the other
dance couples. However, I honestly cannot see, given the technical and
interpretive problems, why this style is so far superior to everyone else.

Can someone, seriously, enlighten me?

Cheers, Fiona

 
 
 

Please Explain G&P To Me

Post by Jon Sey » Thu, 28 Mar 1996 04:00:00

: Their technique is not noticeably better or worse than any of the other
: top five couples. They are probably the fastest, but speed does not equal
: technique.

But equal technique at twice the speed is indeed more impressive.  Also,
note that Platov does *so much more* footwork than any of the amateur men
out there.  No one comes close.  Most men in ice dance frame the woman's
much more complicated steps, but Platov matches his partner in footwork
complexity rather closely.  This also contributes, I believe, to the
choppiness ascribed to them.

: At Worlds I was also quite surprised with their interpretation
: of the Tango. The CFSA/ISU rules say that this dance is to be "soft,
: lyrical and sensuous". Their interpretation of it was extremely choppy and
: sharp, with lots of ugly little kicks and angular arm movements. Why was
: this interpretation rated more highly than the other dancers, who were
: much more in the spirit that the rulebook suggests?

Are you talking about the free dance?  Are the ISU rules to be followed
so closely there?

: Other problems I had with them:
: - their incessant mugging and exaggerated *** expressions.

As opposed to the restrained *** expressions of the other competitors?
<g>  

Seriously, while I'm the first person to complain about how I don't like
much of G&P's work, I simply can't understand why it's so hard for people
to understand why they win.  I thought that constructing the strongest
possible program was the point of amateur competition.  Their
speed, complexity of footwork, and Platov's increased movement are just
beyond the other teams right now.  I don't think it's a matter of style,
as much as Bourne/Kraatz's handlers want us to think that.  I have full
confidence if any of the lower ranked teams could match G&P technically the
judges would be happy to let those teams win.

--


 
 
 

Please Explain G&P To Me

Post by Sasha Ramayy » Thu, 28 Mar 1996 04:00:00

Fiona,
        I too fail to see the G&P hype and I don't see what the
judges see in them. All I see is her flailing limbs, tons of
upper body gyrations, mugging for the judges, an absolute lack
of unison and separations galore. Hardly ice dancing is it? I
would hate to see G&P's names go down in ice dancing record
books with the likes of T&D, K&P and U&Z. It is peculiar that
although G&P have won all the competitions since 1994, neither
the public nor the commentators have been warm towards them.
Maybe that explains this whole thing: their inability to move or
bring in the audience to thir numbers, and a complete lack of
awareness of each other on the ice (using Platov as a prop is an
apt description). Hopefully, other couples would stand a better
chance next season.
        Ice dancing has been and will always be my favourite
sport (yes! that's right, sport). I hope the likes of G&P won't
diminish the passion and interest that people have for this
sport.

Sasha.

Sasha Ramayya
Arizona State University


 
 
 

Please Explain G&P To Me

Post by Katie Enrigh » Thu, 28 Mar 1996 04:00:00

I'd have to agree with both Fiona and Sasha.  G&P turn me off
completely, and I think a big reason for that is their lack of rapport
on the ice.  I often get the impression that they are two individuals
who happen to be on the ice at the same time.  Couples like T&D (my
all-time favorites), K&P, U&Z, B&K, and R&K all have a great rapport,
not only with each other, but with the audience as well.  I also don't
think that G&P are very creative in their choreography.  To me, this
year's free dance is just a Latin version of their rock'n'roll routine
(and I didn't like that one, either).  I hope that Krylova & Ovsiannikov
and Bourne & Kraatz will be able to mount strong challenges to G&P in
the very near future.

Katie

Quote:

>It is peculiar that
>although G&P have won all the competitions since 1994, neither
>the public nor the commentators have been warm towards them.
>Maybe that explains this whole thing: their inability to move or
>bring in the audience to thir numbers, and a complete lack of
>awareness of each other on the ice (using Platov as a prop is an
>apt description). Hopefully, other couples would stand a better
>chance next season.
>    Ice dancing has been and will always be my favourite
>sport (yes! that's right, sport). I hope the likes of G&P won't
>diminish the passion and interest that people have for this
>sport.

>Sasha.

 
 
 

Please Explain G&P To Me

Post by Eda Tseiny » Thu, 28 Mar 1996 04:00:00

: technique. At Worlds I was also quite surprised with their interpretation
: of the Tango. The CFSA/ISU rules say that this dance is to be "soft,
: lyrical and sensuous". Their interpretation of it was extremely choppy and
: sharp, with lots of ugly little kicks and angular arm movements. Why was
: this interpretation rated more highly than the other dancers, who were
: much more in the spirit that the rulebook suggests?

That's a good question.  I really enjoyed G&P's Tango, but while watching
it I not only had the distinct impression that it looked very different
from the other dancers, but also wondered if it had that much to do with
the intent of the Tango.  Their timing was wonderful, but was it the
correct phrasing for the Tango *Romantica*??  I asked a judge and she
said she had talked about it with another judge and the opinion was that
G&P's timing was very off.  But all the judges on the *panel* seemed to
like it.  I don't know enough about dance to see when a dance is being
interpreted incorrectly, but obviously G&P had honed their TR this way
all season and were given the highest marks for it at Worlds.  So, was
it wrong or was it absolutely perfect?!  The confusion continues...

: - every single part of the competition they skated either began or ended
: with Gritschuk doing that annoying "sensual" (ha) slither up and down
: Platov's torso. No matter what the music was or what the dance was, they
: had to throw this move in.

I'm always struck by how emotionless they are.  The only way that G&P
seem to express feeling is by flailing a little harder.  (And we've
all discussed Oksana's *** expressions...)

: I am willing to admit that G&P have a different style than the other
: dance couples. However, I honestly cannot see, given the technical and
: interpretive problems, why this style is so far superior to everyone else.

I also noticed how clean and soft and quiet Krylova & Ovsyannikov's turns
and steps were, and how scrapey and dragged Grishchuk & Platov's were
(in comparison, of course).  I still think G&P have the smoothest and
sharpest transitions between holds of any of the dancers, but their
choice of choreography and theme (if you can call it that) in their
free dance was pedestrian and to me, completely uninteresting.  I really
thought that K&O were just as good in their free dance.  I would love to
be looking forward to the Krylova & Ovsyannikov, Bourne & Kraatz,
Anissina & Peizerat competition at the 1998 Olympics, and to see how
these three talented and creative teams would challenge one another...
but only if we can get G&P to get the message and GO AWAY.  

: Can someone, seriously, enlighten me?

I have no idea but they are obviously the least popular and least
esteemed champions I have ever seen (yes, even including poor
beleaguered Aleksei Urmanov).

Eda

 
 
 

Please Explain G&P To Me

Post by Louis Epste » Fri, 29 Mar 1996 04:00:00

: I also noticed how clean and soft and quiet Krylova & Ovsyannikov's turns
: and steps were, and how scrapey and dragged Grishchuk & Platov's were
: (in comparison, of course).  I still think G&P have the smoothest and
: sharpest transitions between holds of any of the dancers, but their
: choice of choreography and theme (if you can call it that) in their
: free dance was pedestrian and to me, completely uninteresting.  I really
: thought that K&O were just as good in their free dance.  I would love to
: be looking forward to the Krylova & Ovsyannikov, Bourne & Kraatz,
: Anissina & Peizerat competition at the 1998 Olympics, and to see how
: these three talented and creative teams would challenge one another...
: but only if we can get G&P to get the message and GO AWAY.  

Do reapeated gold medals SEND that message??

In any case,Romanova & Yaroshenko will have to fill in in your triad there;
Maria Anissina is not eligible for French citizenship until some time after
Nagano.

 
 
 

Please Explain G&P To Me

Post by Michalle S Gou » Fri, 29 Mar 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


>: I also noticed how clean and soft and quiet Krylova & Ovsyannikov's turns
>: and steps were, and how scrapey and dragged Grishchuk & Platov's were
>: (in comparison, of course).  I still think G&P have the smoothest and
>: sharpest transitions between holds of any of the dancers, but their
>: choice of choreography and theme (if you can call it that) in their
>: free dance was pedestrian and to me, completely uninteresting.  I really
>: thought that K&O were just as good in their free dance.  I would love to
>: be looking forward to the Krylova & Ovsyannikov, Bourne & Kraatz,
>: Anissina & Peizerat competition at the 1998 Olympics, and to see how
>: these three talented and creative teams would challenge one another...
>: but only if we can get G&P to get the message and GO AWAY.  
>Do reapeated gold medals SEND that message??
>In any case,Romanova & Yaroshenko will have to fill in in your triad there;
>Maria Anissina is not eligible for French citizenship until some time after
>Nagano.

Is she going for accelerated citizenship or has it already been determined
that there's no way she can get citizenship?
Michalle
 
 
 

Please Explain G&P To Me

Post by Mark Overt » Sat, 30 Mar 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>  Their interpretation of it was extremely choppy and
> sharp, with lots of ugly little kicks and angular arm movements.

At points, it looked like he was running.  It looked worse than Surya's
toe-pushes.  At another competition, I saw other dancers doing this jazzy
stuff too.  I have no idea why the judges would like it.  I'm glad the
pairs skaters don't do that; I enjoyed watching them, unlike G&P.

- Mark

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"A hundred thousand lemmings can't be wrong." ... Unknown

 
 
 

Please Explain G&P To Me

Post by Louis Epste » Sat, 30 Mar 1996 04:00:00




: >: I also noticed how clean and soft and quiet Krylova & Ovsyannikov's turns
: >: and steps were, and how scrapey and dragged Grishchuk & Platov's were
: >: (in comparison, of course).  I still think G&P have the smoothest and
: >: sharpest transitions between holds of any of the dancers, but their
: >: choice of choreography and theme (if you can call it that) in their
: >: free dance was pedestrian and to me, completely uninteresting.  I really
: >: thought that K&O were just as good in their free dance.  I would love to
: >: be looking forward to the Krylova & Ovsyannikov, Bourne & Kraatz,
: >: Anissina & Peizerat competition at the 1998 Olympics, and to see how
: >: these three talented and creative teams would challenge one another...
: >: but only if we can get G&P to get the message and GO AWAY.  

: >Do reapeated gold medals SEND that message??

: >In any case,Romanova & Yaroshenko will have to fill in in your triad there;
: >Maria Anissina is not eligible for French citizenship until some time after
: >Nagano.

: Is she going for accelerated citizenship or has it already been determined
: that there's no way she can get citizenship?

I'm not sure to what extent the French parliament ever sets the law aside,
I know the US Congress sometimes does.

 
 
 

Please Explain G&P To Me

Post by Becky Wurm Cla » Sun, 31 Mar 1996 04:00:00

Amen! to Fiona, Sasha & Katie. I absolutely fail to see why G&P are so well-
placed in competitions. They don't have any charm or grace and are so busy
wiggling and flailing that they don't even *appear* to have a lot of skill.
Enough already, judges - let's get real and focus on the dance part of ice
dance.

: I'd have to agree with both Fiona and Sasha.  G&P turn me off
: completely, and I think a big reason for that is their lack of rapport
: on the ice.  I often get the impression that they are two individuals
: who happen to be on the ice at the same time.  Couples like T&D (my
: all-time favorites), K&P, U&Z, B&K, and R&K all have a great rapport,
: not only with each other, but with the audience as well.  I also don't
: think that G&P are very creative in their choreography.  To me, this
: year's free dance is just a Latin version of their rock'n'roll routine
: (and I didn't like that one, either).  I hope that Krylova & Ovsiannikov
: and Bourne & Kraatz will be able to mount strong challenges to G&P in
: the very near future.

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Please Explain G&P To Me

Post by jennifer rebecca hendri » Mon, 01 Apr 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
>Amen! to Fiona, Sasha & Katie. I absolutely fail to see why G&P are so well-
>placed in competitions. They don't have any charm or grace and are so busy
>wiggling and flailing that they don't even *appear* to have a lot of skill.

Aside from the debate over the artistic impression of G&P, you have to
admit that they are technically superior to the other couples. They do
more steps with more speed. They have to have good technique in order to
do that many stpes without losing speed.
 
 
 

Please Explain G&P To Me

Post by Margaret Burwe » Tue, 02 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


> : Is she going for accelerated citizenship or has it already been determined
> : that there's no way she can get citizenship?

> I'm not sure to what extent the French parliament ever sets the law aside,
> I know the US Congress sometimes does.

        The latest issue of Patinage (arrived last week) says that Marinna
has received her citizenship and will definitely skate for France in the
next Olympics.

Marg

 
 
 

Please Explain G&P To Me

Post by Michalle S Gou » Wed, 03 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Quote:



>> : Is she going for accelerated citizenship or has it already been determined
>> : that there's no way she can get citizenship?

>> I'm not sure to what extent the French parliament ever sets the law aside,
>> I know the US Congress sometimes does.
>    The latest issue of Patinage (arrived last week) says that Marinna
>has received her citizenship and will definitely skate for France in the
>next Olympics.

If only Gorsha can be as lucky!
Michalle