Sit Spins (Was Re: Adict's Aids)

Sit Spins (Was Re: Adict's Aids)

Post by KANDY WO » Wed, 01 Oct 1997 04:00:00


Can someone enlighten me on the techniques of sitspins?  What stress to
the body or particular strength are needed for
someone to do a sit spin?   Why can some skaters do much superior sitspins
than others (why, say, Todd Eldredge can do such magnificent, crisp
sitspins while others can't?) Also, why  some skaters just can't really do
sitspins at all (Oksana Baiul or Chen Lu.)   I notice that both of the
previous skaters I mentioned have longer legs to torso porpotion; longer
legs to shorter torsoes.   Is this partly the reason why a skater like
Chen Lu cannot do true sitspins (I have seen her done sitspins back
during the 1994 season, probably earlier; but she never did the sitspins
like Todd, Michelle, and Tara where they get really low on the ice with
their legs extended in front of them.)  

And if anyone can think of anything to add to this, I'll be delighted.

Kandy

 
 
 

Sit Spins (Was Re: Adict's Aids)

Post by Sandra Loosemor » Sat, 04 Oct 1997 04:00:00


Quote:
> A technicality: according to my former coach, getting low
> to the ice is desirable but not necessary. You don't get
> marked down as long as you're basically in the "sit"
> position.

Right.  It's at least as important to have a straight back and
turned-out free leg, as it is to get low to the ice.  In general,
getting lower to the ice requires some hunching of the back so there
are trade-offs involved.  In the cannonball sitspin variants, the
rounded back is deliberate.  And, instead of extending the free
leg completely, it's acceptable to bend the knee as long as the leg is
turned out (the effect being to cross the free leg in front of the
shin of the spinning leg).  This also lets you get lower without
catching the heel of your blade on the ice.

-Sandra

 
 
 

Sit Spins (Was Re: Adict's Aids)

Post by She Who Controls the Wind and the Sea » Sat, 04 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

>Is this partly the reason why a skater like
> Chen Lu cannot do true sitspins (I have seen her done sitspins back
> during the 1994 season, probably earlier; but she never did the sitspins
> like Todd, Michelle, and Tara where they get really low on the ice with
> their legs extended in front of them.)

A technicality: according to my former coach, getting low
to the ice is desirable but not necessary. You don't get
marked down as long as you're basically in the "sit"
position. That may just be true for us ***s (especially
those of us whose hamstrings are tighter!), but that's what
I've heard. In my experience, being able to do a sitspin
(and this is my experience--I can do one really loopy
revolution) depends on strong, flexible hamstrings, strong
quads, and strong abs. But then, so does everything in
skating.

Amy

-------------------------------
"You're built too low! The fast ones go over your head!
You got a hole in your glove! I keep pitchin' 'em and you
keep missin' 'em! You gotta keep  your eye on the ball, son!
Eye...ball...Eyeball! I almost had a*** there. Joke, that is."
-- Foghorn Leghorn


 
 
 

Sit Spins (Was Re: Adict's Aids)

Post by HILL JANET SW » Sat, 04 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

>Can someone enlighten me on the techniques of sitspins?  What stress to
>the body or particular strength are needed for
>someone to do a sit spin?   Why can some skaters do much superior sitspins
>than others (why, say, Todd Eldredge can do such magnificent, crisp
>sitspins while others can't?) Also, why  some skaters just can't really do
>sitspins at all (Oksana Baiul or Chen Lu.)  

Being able to do a sitspin well requires flexibility (of the quad of the
skating leg, and the ankle, AND of the hamstring of the free leg).  it
requires a great deal of strength (skating leg .... the strength to lower
all of the weight of the upper body to maximum flex, hold it there, then
raise it again; free leg .... the strength of the inner thigh to pull the
leg in against the force of rotation so that the thighs touch, and the
strength to hold the leg out at hip level; of the abdomen .... to help in
holding the free leg where it should be and to keep the torso in control)

Few people do a back sitspin that is as good as their forward sitspin.

In terms of the people you asked about:
Eldredge has a really good sense of centeredness that assists him in being
able to maintain the spin .... maintain a consistent center of gravity
even while the location of his various body parts is changing.  He also
has to have a VERY long hamstring and significant strength.  

Neither Chen Lu nor Oksana Baiul is a particularly strong skater (that is,
they do not seem to have great strength) and it's my guess that it is this
that is primarily responsible for their less-than-fabulous sitspins.  In
addition, they simply don't seem to have the "gift" for spinning -- they
have good spins as a consequence of practice (and more practice) but it
has probably always taken them more work and practice to make a particular
amount of progress in their spins than it took people like Eldredge and
Davis (Wylie and Hamill, on the other hand, have impeccable technique --
for them it could be either a gift or practice or a happy combination of
the two).  Note:  Even people with a gift of centeredness have to work and
work and work at spins to get them good -- you can be as gifted as all
getout, but if you don't have the strength, flexibility, and technique,
you won't spin well.  it's just that they have this one aspect of spinning
that they don't have to work QUITE so hard at as others.

        janet

--

 
 
 

Sit Spins (Was Re: Adict's Aids)

Post by Jane Hu » Sun, 05 Oct 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>>Can someone enlighten me on the techniques of sitspins?  What stress to
>>the body or particular strength are needed for
>>someone to do a sit spin?   Why can some skaters do much superior sitspins
>>than others (why, say, Todd Eldredge can do such magnificent, crisp
>>sitspins while others can't?) Also, why  some skaters just can't really do
>>sitspins at all (Oksana Baiul or Chen Lu.)  

> Being able to do a sitspin well requires flexibility (of the quad of the
> skating leg, and the ankle, AND of the hamstring of the free leg).  it
> requires a great deal of strength (skating leg .... the strength to lower
> all of the weight of the upper body to maximum flex, hold it there, then
> raise it again; free leg .... the strength of the inner thigh to pull the
> leg in against the force of rotation so that the thighs touch, and the
> strength to hold the leg out at hip level; of the abdomen .... to help in
> holding the free leg where it should be and to keep the torso in control)

> Few people do a back sitspin that is as good as their forward sitspin.

> In terms of the people you asked about:
> Eldredge has a really good sense of centeredness that assists him in being
> able to maintain the spin .... maintain a consistent center of gravity
> even while the location of his various body parts is changing.  He also
> has to have a VERY long hamstring and significant strength.  

Wouldn't it also be true that you have to have VERY good knees,
with exceptionally strong muscles to hold the lateral tension?

Trainers and physiotherapists often discourage people from doing
"squats" now, because the "squat" position is very *** the
knees -- but the sit spin is basically a one-foot squat.

It's the "going up", out of the sit spin, that would be harder
than "going down" into the sit position.

Jane

 
 
 

Sit Spins (Was Re: Adict's Aids)

Post by Debby M. Forti » Sun, 05 Oct 1997 04:00:00



Quote:

>It's the "going up", out of the sit spin, that would be harder
>than "going down" into the sit position.

No kidding Jane.  I had a very low sitspin in my heyday.  I knew when I was
starting to 'lose it' overall, when I could get down, but had to spin out on
my bottom to get out of it because getting up was just impossible....:-)

Cheers,

Debby

 
 
 

Sit Spins (Was Re: Adict's Aids)

Post by HILL JANET SW » Sun, 05 Oct 1997 04:00:00

Jane:

Quote:
>Wouldn't it also be true that you have to have VERY good knees,
>with exceptionally strong muscles to hold the lateral tension?

>Trainers and physiotherapists often discourage people from doing
>"squats" now, because the "squat" position is very *** the
>knees -- but the sit spin is basically a one-foot squat.

>It's the "going up", out of the sit spin, that would be harder
>than "going down" into the sit position.

Yes, you're right.  And some people just aren't going to be able to do
really deep sitspins because of how they are constructed.  It's NOT a
move that's kind to knees.

BUT, you can do a really good sitspin that isn't so deep, and it gets
plenty of credit .... what to look for:

-- hip as low as the skating knee
-- free leg held out straight (not necessarily horizontal) instead of
wrapped around the skating leg
-- foot turned out (heel not pointing down to the ice -- this isn't so
much aesthetic as it is functional .... the more your foot is turned out,
the lower you can get (without your heel hitting the ice, bringing
disaster) AND, for some reason I've never been able to figure out, it
also makes for a more stable and controlled spin)
-- toe pointed ... as with the turnout, this is partly functional.
-- back more or less straight (unless the skater is consciously striving
for the "cannonball" position)
-- head upright
-- hand position is optional, including the possibility of resting the
skating hand on the skating thigh, but the skater shouldn't be relying on
the hand to push her/him back up again

and as with all spins:

-- centered
-- fast
-- held
-- position crisp, well defined
-- exit stable, strong, and with flow

        janet

--

 
 
 

Sit Spins (Was Re: Adict's Aids)

Post by Jane Hu » Mon, 06 Oct 1997 04:00:00


Quote:
> Jane:
>>Wouldn't it also be true that you have to have VERY good knees,

> Yes, you're right.  And some people just aren't going to be able to do
> really deep sitspins because of how they are constructed.  It's NOT a
> move that's kind to knees.

Very similar to downhill skiing in the bumps (moguls if you prefer),
which is also not kind to knees.

Now, triple jumps, quads, and throw jumps in pairs are also hazardous
to anyone with weak knees, yes? A different type of danger -- sit spins
are *** the knees because of the up-and-down motion, while jumps
are hard because of the rotational pressure (twisting) at the landing.

All elite skaters also do weight training; it's not just to improve
their skating -- it's also to strengthen the muscles (such as around
the knees) to withstand the repeated rigors of these moves.

If they didn't do weight training, I think these skaters would be
crippled for life -- knees, or back (Kurt Browning, Todd Eldridge).
Certainly there have been some skaters who had to retire because of
knee and back injuries (Christianne Hirt, Kay Thomson (although she
came back, better than ever, after back surgery)).

Quote:
> BUT, you can do a really good sitspin that isn't so deep, and it gets
> plenty of credit .... what to look for:
> (cool list snipped)

Cool list! Thanks -- I'll look for these items in the next
competition.

Jane

 
 
 

Sit Spins (Was Re: Adict's Aids)

Post by Mary E Tyle » Mon, 06 Oct 1997 04:00:00


Quote:


> >Is this partly the reason why a skater like
> > Chen Lu cannot do true sitspins (I have seen her done sitspins back
> > during the 1994 season, probably earlier; but she never did the sitspins
> > like Todd, Michelle, and Tara where they get really low on the ice with
> > their legs extended in front of them.)

> A technicality: according to my former coach, getting low
> to the ice is desirable but not necessary. You don't get
> marked down as long as you're basically in the "sit"
> position. That may just be true for us ***s (especially
> those of us whose hamstrings are tighter!), but that's what
> I've heard. In my experience, being able to do a sitspin
> (and this is my experience--I can do one really loopy
> revolution) depends on strong, flexible hamstrings, strong
> quads, and strong abs. But then, so does everything in
> skating.

i tend to disagree whith what you said about flexible hamstrings.  i
have always had very tight hamstrings even as a child and i had the best
sit spin in the state and one of the best in the region. i couldn't do a
camel or a spiral worth my life, but i could really spin that sit spin,
all the way in tshoot-the-duck position for about 15 rotations.

dejah
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