Pairs' Long at U.S. Nationals

Pairs' Long at U.S. Nationals

Post by Alex C L » Mon, 22 Jan 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

> Could somebody please post some details about how the top pairs skated in
> the long program?  I have seen very little mentioned, other than
> one comment about Jenni Meno.  Did the judging seem fair?
> --
> Billy Kutulas


Just a little more I forgot to mention with pairs.  I actually enjoyed
*** Button's commentary a lot.  I thought he was right on with certain
things.  I remember watching the pair Stiegler/Zimmerman.  He said
something which I completely agree with.  This pair really has a lot of
potential.  There is a lot of drama and dynamics in their skating,
especially in his part.  He reminds me A LOT of Artur Dmitriev.  Anyone
else with similar feelings?

--Alex

 
 
 

Pairs' Long at U.S. Nationals

Post by Lynn J. Fanche » Mon, 22 Jan 1996 04:00:00


writes:

Quote:

>I think the judging was the worst in the pairs.  Kyoko & Jason skated
>first with a near perfect program -- very clean throw triple salchow &
>triple loop, side by side triple toe loops (clean landings) and double
>Axels.  Jason slipped a little at the end with simple side by side
>jumps.  Their scores for technical and artistic were mostly 5.7 & 5.8

>Then came Meno & Sand.  They had a clean throw double Axel.  She fell
>(FELL, not just a touch down) on the throw triple salchow.  His
landing
>on the side by side double Axel was a bit shaky.  Yet, they finished
>first.  Clearly, reputation was the only factor that put them on top.
I
>agree that their presentation was slightly better than K/J, but only
>slightly (maybe a 0.1 edge), but technically they were at least 0.2
>points lower than K/J in my book.  The judges were very wrong to put
them
>first.  They were telling the rest on the pairs teams that no matter
how
>clean they skate, they weren't going to get the marks they deserve.
This
>is very, very bad for the morale of America's future in pairs.

>--Alex

I think I agree with this.  Meno and Sand were beautiful; clearly the
most artistic in the field.  However, their difficulty level
technically was _way_ behind Ina and Dungen (someday I'm going to learn
how to spell his name!), and Jenni's fall was a much worse error than
Jason's failure to complete the jumps in side-by-side jump combinations
(BTW, it was a _combination_ jump--something I didn't see any other
pair attempt), especially since I/D had already completed at least 2
side by side jumps, at least one of which was considerably more
difficult than anything M/S attempted.

I've been waiting for someone good to do "Slaughter on 10th Avenue"
--it's really a natural for pairs or dance.  Unfortunately, I don't
think I/D's choreography really takes advantage of it as much as it
could.  I'd really like to see them do some work before World's,
because this could be a dynamite routine if they can get the style in
sync with the music. "Slaughter" is program music--it tells a
story--and they could do a better job of telling that story on ice.

Lynn

 
 
 

Pairs' Long at U.S. Nationals

Post by Alex C L » Mon, 22 Jan 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> Could somebody please post some details about how the top pairs skated in
> the long program?  I have seen very little mentioned, other than
> one comment about Jenni Meno.  Did the judging seem fair?
> --
> Billy Kutulas


I think the judging was the worst in the pairs.  Kyoko & Jason skated
first with a near perfect program -- very clean throw triple salchow &
triple loop, side by side triple toe loops (clean landings) and double
Axels.  Jason slipped a little at the end with simple side by side
jumps.  Their scores for technical and artistic were mostly 5.7 & 5.8

Then came Meno & Sand.  They had a clean throw double Axel.  She fell
(FELL, not just a touch down) on the throw triple salchow.  His landing
on the side by side double Axel was a bit shaky.  Yet, they finished
first.  Clearly, reputation was the only factor that put them on top.  I
agree that their presentation was slightly better than K/J, but only
slightly (maybe a 0.1 edge), but technically they were at least 0.2
points lower than K/J in my book.  The judges were very wrong to put them
first.  They were telling the rest on the pairs teams that no matter how
clean they skate, they weren't going to get the marks they deserve.  This
is very, very bad for the morale of America's future in pairs.

--Alex

 
 
 

Pairs' Long at U.S. Nationals

Post by Rima Cook » Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


>Lin) writes:

>>Just a little more I forgot to mention with pairs.  I actually enjoyed
>>Dick Button's commentary a lot.  I thought he was right on with certain
>>things.  I remember watching the pair Stiegler/Zimmerman.  He said
>>something which I completely agree with.  This pair really has a lot of
>>potential.  There is a lot of drama and dynamics in their skating,
>>especially in his part.  He reminds me A LOT of Artur Dmitriev.  Anyone
>>else with similar feelings?
>>--Alex

>I definitely agree with you about the Artur Dmitriev similiarity.  I had
>made the exact same comment to a friend of mine prior to your post.  I
>found myself looking at him more then her.  He has style, passion.....I
>look forward to seeing more of them in the future.  

You guys are right on! I had never seen this pair before, but John
Zimmerman is absolutely riveting! He's got tons of flair and passion, and
Stephanie is an excellent foil for him. I personally think they have it
in them to be future champions.
 
 
 

Pairs' Long at U.S. Nationals

Post by KIM VINE » Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:00:00

I totally agree! I said the exact same thing to a friend after watching
their short program. By the way, the other day someone made a comment
about there being no one of note from the South that skated. Well, here's
one! John Zimmerman is from Birmingham, Alabama. Take a guess at where I
live.

                                            Kim

 
 
 

Pairs' Long at U.S. Nationals

Post by TD » Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:00:00

I totally agreed. Zimmerman reminded me alot of Artur Dmitriev.
Look for them to be a *** pair in future. A lot of potential.
 
 
 

Pairs' Long at U.S. Nationals

Post by Julia C » Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:00:00



Quote:
>  I remember watching the pair Stiegler/Zimmerman.  He said
> something which I completely agree with.  This pair really has a lot of
> potential.  There is a lot of drama and dynamics in their skating,
> especially in his part.  He reminds me A LOT of Artur Dmitriev.  Anyone
> else with similar feelings?

Yes!  That's the first thing I thought - this looks like a young Artur.
 He has the same style and flair and balletic stance.  I'm not sure
Stiegler is ultimately the right partner for him, but they look quite
good together.
 
 
 

Pairs' Long at U.S. Nationals

Post by Jon Sey » Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:00:00


: I think the judging was the worst in the pairs.  Kyoko & Jason skated
: first with a near perfect program -- very clean throw triple salchow &
: triple loop, side by side triple toe loops (clean landings) and double
: Axels.  Jason slipped a little at the end with simple side by side
: jumps.  Their scores for technical and artistic were mostly 5.7 & 5.8

The program was in the great Kovarikova/Novotny tradition:  Pack every
difficult trick in the book in the first 90 seconds and then do more
artistic moves for the rest.  Trouble is, the second half of I&D's
program wasn't all that intersting, and it slowed down in speed as well
as spirit.  For all my whining about Meno/Sand, I must say that in the
arena, they have a presence that stands them apart from everyone.  
Certainly, their program was better balanced, their throw jumps cover
much more ice (even the failed 3sal), and Jenni Meno presents the lifts
with outstanding polish.  Lyons/Wells were rather pedestrian IMHO, and I
found it odd that the judges favored the more mature compelling program for
the gold but not for the bronze.  Stiegler/Zimmerman's programs looked unlike
anyone else's.  They were pungent and thoughtful, going for tension rather
than goop, and Peter Oppegard's choreography is wonderfully suited for
them.  Their spiral sequence in the short was one of the cleverest I've
ever seen.  Wow.

--

 
 
 

Pairs' Long at U.S. Nationals

Post by Billy Kutul » Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:00:00


  Just as Meno & Sand outskated Urbanski & Marval at 1993 Worlds and have been
  national champions since,if Ina & Dungjen finish ahead of Meno & Sand in
  Edmonton,there will probably be changes at next year's Nationals...

True, but I wonder how things would've gone if Urbanski and Marval had
stayed together for '94 Nationals.  Given Ina and Dungjen's previous
receptions at Worlds, their finishing ahead of Meno and Sand might be a
tall order.  Still, it's quite possible.  I for one would like to see it
happen.  You'd think, with the new emphasis on side-by-side triples, that
the judges would find Ina and Dungjen's programs to their liking.

--
Billy Kutulas

 
 
 

Pairs' Long at U.S. Nationals

Post by Mark Carlso » Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
> I think the judging was the worst in the pairs.  Kyoko & Jason skated
> first with a near perfect program -- very clean throw triple salchow &
> triple loop, side by side triple toe loops (clean landings) and double
> Axels.  Jason slipped a little at the end with simple side by side
> jumps.  Their scores for technical and artistic were mostly 5.7 & 5.8

> Then came Meno & Sand.  They had a clean throw double Axel.  She fell
> (FELL, not just a touch down) on the throw triple salchow.  His landing
> on the side by side double Axel was a bit shaky.  Yet, they finished
> first.  Clearly, reputation was the only factor that put them on top.  I
> agree that their presentation was slightly better than K/J, but only
> slightly (maybe a 0.1 edge), but technically they were at least 0.2
> points lower than K/J in my book.  The judges were very wrong to put them
> first.  They were telling the rest on the pairs teams that no matter how
> clean they skate, they weren't going to get the marks they deserve.  This
> is very, very bad for the morale of America's future in pairs.

> --Alex

I agree with you here.  I don't think it was wrong to place Meno/Sand on
the World Team, but IMHO it was wrong to place them first overall.

Mark

 
 
 

Pairs' Long at U.S. Nationals

Post by Annech » Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
Lin) writes:

>Just a little more I forgot to mention with pairs.  I actually enjoyed
>Dick Button's commentary a lot.  I thought he was right on with certain
>things.  I remember watching the pair Stiegler/Zimmerman.  He said
>something which I completely agree with.  This pair really has a lot of
>potential.  There is a lot of drama and dynamics in their skating,
>especially in his part.  He reminds me A LOT of Artur Dmitriev.  Anyone
>else with similar feelings?

>--Alex

I definitely agree with you about the Artur Dmitriev similiarity.  I had
made the exact same comment to a friend of mine prior to your post.  I
found myself looking at him more then her.  He has style, passion.....I
look forward to seeing more of them in the future.  
 
 
 

Pairs' Long at U.S. Nationals

Post by Louis Epste » Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:00:00


: >
: >Then came Meno & Sand.  They had a clean throw double Axel.  She fell
: >(FELL, not just a touch down) on the throw triple salchow.  His landing
: >on the side by side double Axel was a bit shaky.  Yet, they finished
: >first.  Clearly, reputation was the only factor that put them on top.  I
: >agree that their presentation was slightly better than K/J, but only
: >slightly (maybe a 0.1 edge), but technically they were at least 0.2
: >points lower than K/J in my book.  The judges were very wrong to put them
: >first.  They were telling the rest on the pairs teams that no matter how
: >clean they skate, they weren't going to get the marks they deserve.  This
: >is very, very bad for the morale of America's future in pairs.
: >

: I agree. I can't understand how the judges could give such high marks for
: that program, considering Meno and Sand skated it so much better last
: year. I don't know about anyone else but I would have given first to Kyoko
: and Jason because they have gotten so much better and because I think they
: outskated Meno and Sand.

Well,last year Meno & Sand DID get higher marks(a bunch of 6es).

Just as Meno & Sand outskated Urbanski & Marval at 1993 Worlds and have been
national champions since,if Ina & Dungjen finish ahead of Meno & Sand in
Edmonton,there will probably be changes at next year's Nationals...

 
 
 

Pairs' Long at U.S. Nationals

Post by RASHA » Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:00:00


Quote:


>> Could somebody please post some details about how the top pairs skated in
>> the long program?  I have seen very little mentioned, other than
>> one comment about Jenni Meno.  Did the judging seem fair?

>> --
>> Billy Kutulas

>I think the judging was the worst in the pairs.  Kyoko & Jason skated
>first with a near perfect program -- very clean throw triple salchow &
>triple loop, side by side triple toe loops (clean landings) and double
>Axels.  Jason slipped a little at the end with simple side by side
>jumps.  Their scores for technical and artistic were mostly 5.7 & 5.8

>Then came Meno & Sand.  They had a clean throw double Axel.  She fell
>(FELL, not just a touch down) on the throw triple salchow.  His landing
>on the side by side double Axel was a bit shaky.  Yet, they finished
>first.  Clearly, reputation was the only factor that put them on top.  I
>agree that their presentation was slightly better than K/J, but only
>slightly (maybe a 0.1 edge), but technically they were at least 0.2
>points lower than K/J in my book.  The judges were very wrong to put them
>first.  They were telling the rest on the pairs teams that no matter how
>clean they skate, they weren't going to get the marks they deserve.  This
>is very, very bad for the morale of America's future in pairs.

>--Alex

I agree. I can't understand how the judges could give such high marks for
that program, considering Meno and Sand skated it so much better last
year. I don't know about anyone else but I would have given first to Kyoko
and Jason because they have gotten so much better and because I think they
outskated Meno and Sand.

Rashaun

 
 
 

Pairs' Long at U.S. Nationals

Post by lruc.. » Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:00:00

Does anyone know what happened to the skater who got
injured during warmups?  From where I was, it looked like she was
still in a full split position as she hit the boards, so I don't think she
could do anything to prepare for the impact.