Buying A Spyder--think ABout it!!!

Buying A Spyder--think ABout it!!!

Post by MagMa » Wed, 05 Jul 1995 04:00:00


For all you guys buying spyders let me give you  a few things to think
about.

Point 1. At my local store--America's Paintball SUperstore in Downey, CA
The Spyder sells for $164.95--The VM for about $190. Guns only.

Last Sayturday I went to SC Village with two friends--bith had bought new
Spyders--I had my two year old, trusty VM-68 (I also own a Tippman
Pro-LIte and an AutoMag. Depending on your price range I recommend all
three.

Within 1 hour both Spyders were down. Both from seal problems. We went to
the field gun concession-run by Worr Game Products--and they didnt have
them.  Friends ended up renting AutoCockers at $25 a day--Almost the exact
differance between the purchase price of the two guns. Of course my VM
didn't go down but if it had the truck would have had parts because there
are so many VM's out there.

Point 2. Many of the guys here recommending Spyders are tinkerers. I'm
glad these guys are around because they teach us a lot but lets face it.
The average Joe Paintball is not a tinkerer. They play 6 or 10 times a
year and on those days they don't want problems and three hours of down
time. They get their fun playing paintball not taking their guns apart.

Point 3. The Spyder is a cheap import. I'm not opposed to imports-in fact
I am currently torn between buying a Phantom or Sterling to play some pump
games. The Sterling is a quality import--designed with care. The Spyder
was designed with only one thing in mind--price point. They wanted a cheap
gun for the I&I's and Paintball Games of Dallas to sell to unsuspecting
newbies. Its what they did with the Hammers and its what they will do with
the Spyder.

Point 4. What has the Kingman Co done to promote the sport? Look in the
tournament ads under sponsors. Ever see the Kingman name in those columns.
Did you ever miss seeing the Tippmann or Sheridan or...?

Support the people who support the sport!! Vote you opinion with your
dollars. Buying quality and value is the smart choice.

Sean

 
 
 

Buying A Spyder--think ABout it!!!

Post by Michael Hornun » Thu, 06 Jul 1995 04:00:00


Quote:
> For all you guys buying spyders let me give you  a few things to think
> about.

> Within 1 hour both Spyders were down. Both from seal problems. We went to
> the field gun concession-run by Worr Game Products--and they didnt have
> them.  Friends ended up renting AutoCockers at $25 a day--Almost the exact
> differance between the purchase price of the two guns. Of course my VM
> didn't go down but if it had the truck would have had parts because there
> are so many VM's out there.
> Sean

  Well let me give you something to think about.

  Last sunday at Semper Fi Paintball in Bellingham, Washington I observed
something interesting too.  One of my friends was using his brand new
Spyder, while another friend of mine was using his "trusty" PMI-3.  The
Spyder performed flawlessly from the beginning.  It did have one
bolt-lock at the end of the day; an easy fix that requires no replacement
parts.  My other friend and his "trusty" PMI-3 had to sit out three games
at the beginning of the day because it wouldn't shoot.  He continued to
have velocity troubles throughout the day.  
  If you ask me, I'd rather save the $30 in cost and have the gun that
seems, in my experience, to work better - the Spyder.

                        Michael Hornung  TIP# 641

                  http://weber.u.washington.edu/~hornung

 
 
 

Buying A Spyder--think ABout it!!!

Post by Cody Schaf » Fri, 07 Jul 1995 04:00:00

Quote:

>> For all you guys buying spyders let me give you  a few things to think
>> about.

>> Within 1 hour both Spyders were down. Both from seal problems. We went to
>> the field gun concession-run by Worr Game Products--and they didnt have
>> them.  Friends ended up renting AutoCockers at $25 a day--Almost the exact
>> differance between the purchase price of the two guns. Of course my VM
>> didn't go down but if it had the truck would have had parts because there
>> are so many VM's out there.
>> Sean

I've had a Spyder for a few months now, and it has worked almost flawlessly
(i.e. one ball break in about a case of paint). In fact, at the Buckeye Bash
this year, many mistook it for an Automag with its rate of fire and accuracy.
However, there are quite a
few people who have had problems with them (double firing and freezing up
mostly).  The store where I bought the Spyder (Paintball World, Dayton, OH)
has sold hundreds of them and had very few come back with problems.  One was
missing the anti-double-feed nub, and most of the rest were put back together
improperly by their owners.

I'm not sure what causes many of the problems with many Spyders, but they can
work VERY well and with less effort than many put into a 'Cocker.  As for not
having seals in the truck at your game, the Spyder comes with a few spare parts
in a neat little ziplock bag...including a new seal.  A little knowledge about
a paintgun can go a long way.  There are many people out there whose knowledge
of a paintball marker's function consists of, "Air tank goes here, paint goes
here, trigger should fire it."

Know your marker BEFORE you take it out to the field.  It can save you LOTS of
grief.  The Spyder is a good, low-maintenance 'gun for its price, and I'll be
trusting mine for a long time to come...at least 'til I get a better job
or win the lottery and can get a custom marker...

CJ Schaff
TIP #900

 
 
 

Buying A Spyder--think ABout it!!!

Post by MagMa » Fri, 07 Jul 1995 04:00:00

You prove my point, its a great gun for people who like to have problems
to fix which is not most of--you sound like that group of Mr. Paintball
Goodwrenches who get an *** everytime some new thing on their guns
breaks (Wow I can spend two hours fixin it and then three hours writing
about how to fix it on the bulletin board)...For us average joes--like my
buds last week at SC-- who just like to play those little problems can be
a big annoyance...

Sean

 
 
 

Buying A Spyder--think ABout it!!!

Post by Michael Hornun » Fri, 07 Jul 1995 04:00:00


Quote:
> You prove my point, its a great gun for people who like to have problems
> to fix

  As are most other paintguns for that matter.  The Spyder is no worse
than other paintguns on the market. (As I pointed out earlier)  There
aren't any paintguns that I know of that have no drawbacks or design flaws
whatsoever.

Quote:
> You sound like that group of Mr. Paintball
> Goodwrenches who get an *** everytime some new thing on their guns
> breaks (Wow I can spend two hours fixin it

  Sure, I love to learn more about paintguns when I can.  Makes me think
that someday the Autococker might be the one for me.  Until then I'll
learn what I can about the ones I can get my (not quite rich enough)
hands on.  Give me a paintball gun to play with and, you're right, I will
get a stiffy!

Quote:
> and then three hours writing
> about how to fix it on the bulletin board)...For us average joes--like my
> buds last week at SC-- who just like to play those little problems can be
> a big annoyance...

I'm sorry I like to help others who aren't part of the "group of Mr.
Paintball Goodwrenches who get an *** everytime some new thing on
their guns breaks."  It's true that some people do not RTFM, and when
something happens to their paintgun, they will need something/someone to
fall back on.  Like you said, if people haven't learned their paintgun,
"those little problems can be a big annoyance..."

  I know it's hard to be non-judgemental at times.  When I see a VM-68
working poorly one day at one field, it's hard not to assume that it is a
crappy paintball gun.  Personally I'd rather learn more about a painball
gun before I pass judgement on it.  I've seen Autocockers and Automags, the
'best in the industry', perform poorly on the field.  Does this make them
bad paintguns in general?  

Quote:
> Sean

                        Michael Hornung  TIP# 641

                  http://SportToday.org/~hornung
 
 
 

Buying A Spyder--think ABout it!!!

Post by BrandonC » Fri, 07 Jul 1995 04:00:00

I have never had any problems with my Spyder, and I have never had a sore
back from lugging it around like the VM-68.
Plus, it comes with a powerfeed, and a rate of fire that could nail the VM
to the wall.
Shure, the bolt locks are annoying, but easy to fix, and there are more
averege joe shmoe paintballers out there who like to tinker than you would
think :)
 
 
 

Buying A Spyder--think ABout it!!!

Post by Master of the Pan Flut » Fri, 07 Jul 1995 04:00:00

Just my $.02
My main gun is a MEGA-Z, plus I also have a Danny-love***er.  As
backup, I have a carter/cooper-t VM, and a sterling STP turbo.
(dont drool. Most of them are usually broken!).
Last sunday, a group of guys came to our feild equipt totally with
SPYDERS. From what I saw, I was very impressed.
The SPYDERS shot very fast, and were VERY accurate.  I was also
suprised that the SPYDERS were the second cheapest semi on the MAARKET.
(making me feel like I wasted alot of money on my currect PB guns).
The SPYDERS worked flawlessly UNTIL they pinched a ball.  I noticed
that once the GUN was GOOPED up with paint and shell peices it would
CYCLE poorly (and often go full-auto).
_____------------------------------------------------------------________
_____------  JINXED!   Master of the Pan Flute!!  ---------------________
_____Real---Nick Brassard_______TIP#173_______IRC-Jinxed---------________

_____Gun----Mega-Z (tourny)____Carter-VM (rec)  -only blowbacks--________
_____"The 2nd Revolutionary war is coming......"-----------------________
-----____________________________________________________________--------
 
 
 

Buying A Spyder--think ABout it!!!

Post by Heich-M » Sat, 08 Jul 1995 04:00:00


Quote:

>For all you guys buying spyders let me give you  a few things to think
>about.

[deletia]

Quote:

>Within 1 hour both Spyders were down. Both from seal problems. We went to
>the field gun concession-run by Worr Game Products--and they didnt have
>them.  Friends ended up renting AutoCockers at $25 a day--Almost the exact
>differance between the purchase price of the two guns. Of course my VM
>didn't go down but if it had the truck would have had parts because there
>are so many VM's out there.

OK.  Let's base the entire analysis of a Spyder's reliability on your
friends' experience last weekend only.  Let's just ignore all of the good
r.s.p. posts about the Spyder.  Your friends' guns were down...so all
Spyder's suck.  That makes sense.

I have *both* a VM and a Spyder and use the Spyder much more often.  I
have had very few problems with the Spyder and a ton of headaches with the
VM.  I spent two days straight, missing the Skirmish World Record Game,
trying to make my VM work.  Even the guys at the Sheridan table there
couldn't make it work.  I had to send it back to the factory and they didn't
seem to know what was wrong, either.  They just replaced parts 'till it
worked.

I am not condemning all VM's out there.  I still think it is a good gun.  I'm
glad I chose it as my first gun.  However, it has been my experience that my
Spyder har performed much more reliably (sp?) than my VM.

Quote:
>Point 2. Many of the guys here recommending Spyders are tinkerers. I'm
>glad these guys are around because they teach us a lot but lets face it.
>The average Joe Paintball is not a tinkerer. They play 6 or 10 times a
>year and on those days they don't want problems and three hours of down
>time. They get their fun playing paintball not taking their guns apart.

This is bullshit.  The Spyder requires very little in the way of tinkering
or technical knowledge.  One only needs to know how to take it apart to clean
it (Something that anyone who owns any gun should know about their gun) and
how to adjust the velocity (which if far easier on the spyder than the VM).

As far as seal problems with the Spyder, I have had them.  But, both times I
have blown seals, it was a direct result of *my****up.  Why didn't your
friends replace them?  If they go out to play without having spare parts
(which I carry for both my VM and Spyder), they made a big mistake.  I mean,
I don't carry a spare of every part in the gun, but I do have extra screws,
seals and springs that I can use to put a gun back in play.  Likewise, I dont
keep a spare transmission in the trunk of my car.  But, I have a spare tire,
a can of FixAFlat, some coolant, washer fluid, spare fuses, etc.  That's not
being a tinkerer.  That's just being perpared!

Even if Joe Paintball plays 6 times a year, if he owns a gun, he should know
how to disassemble, clean, adjust, lube and reassemble his gun.  He should
carry a kit of spare parts to get a gun going again if there are problems.  
If he doesn't want this responsibility, he should rent.  It's a machine
and, like any other machine, needs to be maintained.

Quote:
>Point 3. The Spyder is a cheap import.

This is true.  It's not as durable as the VM.

Quote:
>The Spyder
>was designed with only one thing in mind--price point.

So the fact that, out of the box, the gun shoots faster, smoother and more
accurately than the VM was just an accident?  (I will concede that,
literally "right out of the box", the Spyder needs to be dissassembled and
lubed, because it ships dry.  However, anyone who wants to own a gun should
find out how to do this anyway--see above)

Quote:
>They wanted a cheap
>gun for the I&I's and Paintball Games of Dallas to sell to unsuspecting
>newbies.

I'm not an unsuspecting newbie.  I've been playing for 2 years and made an
informed decision when I bought it.  I would recommend it to any newbie.

Quote:
>Point 4. What has the Kingman Co done to promote the sport? Look in the
>tournament ads under sponsors. Ever see the Kingman name in those columns.
>Did you ever miss seeing the Tippmann or Sheridan or...?

I'll give you this one.  Kingman does little for the sport besides selling
guns.  I'll also add that their Technical Support and Customer Service are
terrible.

In spite of this, they provide a good piece of equipment at a good price.
It is a shame that your friends had problems, but could it be because they
screwed up and not the because the guns were bad?

Just my $0.02...

                                        --Colin