best diet

best diet

Post by JM » Tue, 30 Jan 2001 05:14:40


Hi,

Just wondering, what is the best diet, in general for rowers? Since rowing
seems to me to be such a complex mixture of endurance and power, I dont know
if there is some sort of best balance of protein/fat/carb to use. I tried the
protein diet for a while, but the lack of carbs made me feel very sluggish on
the erg, the same way I do if I eat a lot of chocolate or sugar.
If youre training and doing 60 minutes of heavy rowing, it seems that you
would need a lot of complex carbs for energy, but at the same time, since
there is a lot of explosion, and thus muscle breakdown(I would guess more so
than other endurance sports liek swimming or running), a high protein intake
would be needed for repair. Since fat is the most efficient energy source, I
would think that it also is beneficial to have a relatively large amount of
it too.
I just hate feeling sluggish, and so want to optimize my diet(as much as I
can in the dining hall) to benefit my erg performance.
Thanks for your time

JMH

 
 
 

best diet

Post by Gareth Wyn » Tue, 30 Jan 2001 06:21:02

This seems to be quite a common question at the mo.  Perhaps one for the
FAQs?

First off  IMVHO high protein, low carb diets are crap.  Don't not ever try
them.  You'll be knackered all the time and it won't  give you super-human
muscles.

If you are training daily you will need about 3000-4000 calories a day.
This should come from carbs (60%), protein (20%), and fat (20%).  if you
manage this with a balanced diet you will have more than enough protein
intake to compensate for muscle breakdown and to help you increase your
muscle mass.  Fats are high in energy but are not converted to useful energy
as easily.  Also high fat intake has been linked to many diseases in later
life, especially heart problems.

You should try to eat mostly complex carbs, as simple refined sugars are
more easily converted to fat.  However sugars are ok in moderation and can
be a useful quick energy boost. After a long (60-90 mins) exercise session
you will come close to exhausting your muscle glycogen.  This is an
especailly good time to eat both simple and complex carbs as you will
experience "rebound loading" of the muscles.  This means that the muscles
end up containing a lot more glycogen than they previously did.  This helps
you perform better and delay fatigue as glycogen is your body's main source
of energy after the initial 1-2 mins of exercise.

I am not a dietician so I'm sure others will disagree with some of this
advise (actually they probably would even if I was).  However I am a
4th-year medical student and lightweight rower (having lost about 10kg) with
a keen interest in sports science, exercise physiology and nutrition.  Feel
free to ignore the above advise but also feel free to contact me directly if
you want any more info.

G

 
 
 

best diet

Post by Jonas Lin » Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:18:24

This might seem like a no-brainer, but as I'm a student of economics not
med.  I don't know how to distinct simple from complex carbs. What gives?

are the carbonhydrate in fruit and pasta/rice complex??

jonas


Quote:
> This seems to be quite a common question at the mo.  Perhaps one for the
> FAQs?

> First off  IMVHO high protein, low carb diets are crap.  Don't not ever
try
> them.  You'll be knackered all the time and it won't  give you super-human
> muscles.

> If you are training daily you will need about 3000-4000 calories a day.
> This should come from carbs (60%), protein (20%), and fat (20%).  if you
> manage this with a balanced diet you will have more than enough protein
> intake to compensate for muscle breakdown and to help you increase your
> muscle mass.  Fats are high in energy but are not converted to useful
energy
> as easily.  Also high fat intake has been linked to many diseases in later
> life, especially heart problems.

> You should try to eat mostly complex carbs, as simple refined sugars are
> more easily converted to fat.  However sugars are ok in moderation and can
> be a useful quick energy boost. After a long (60-90 mins) exercise session
> you will come close to exhausting your muscle glycogen.  This is an
> especailly good time to eat both simple and complex carbs as you will
> experience "rebound loading" of the muscles.  This means that the muscles
> end up containing a lot more glycogen than they previously did.  This
helps
> you perform better and delay fatigue as glycogen is your body's main
source
> of energy after the initial 1-2 mins of exercise.

> I am not a dietician so I'm sure others will disagree with some of this
> advise (actually they probably would even if I was).  However I am a
> 4th-year medical student and lightweight rower (having lost about 10kg)
with
> a keen interest in sports science, exercise physiology and nutrition.
Feel
> free to ignore the above advise but also feel free to contact me directly
if
> you want any more info.

> G


 
 
 

best diet

Post by Gareth Wyn » Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:04:17


Quote:
> This might seem like a no-brainer, but as I'm a student of economics not
> med.  I don't know how to distinct simple from complex carbs. What gives?

> are the carbonhydrate in fruit and pasta/rice complex?? >

basically
simple - sugar
complex - starch and other long chain carbs.

Foods high in long chain carbs include rice, pasta,cereals (esp wholegrain),
corn, potatoes, legumes, and fruit (also contain short chain sugars and lots
of vitamins and minerals)
However, I hope I got the point accross that sugars aren't all bad.  They
are tasty, and very useful for getting lots of energy in in a compact form,
especailly after exercise.  However most of your carb intake should be in
the form of complex carbs (better for your teeth as well!).  A lot of things
that people think are high in sugar are actually high in fat and so not
really very good.
G

 
 
 

best diet

Post by srpl.. » Wed, 31 Jan 2001 03:31:42

Try this article: http://www.irow.com/default.cfm?doc_id=104. It's
rowing specific and breaks everything down in great detail.



Quote:
> Hi,

> Just wondering, what is the best diet, in general for rowers? Since
rowing
> seems to me to be such a complex mixture of endurance and power, I
dont know
> if there is some sort of best balance of protein/fat/carb to use. I
tried the
> protein diet for a while, but the lack of carbs made me feel very
sluggish on
> the erg, the same way I do if I eat a lot of chocolate or sugar.
> If youre training and doing 60 minutes of heavy rowing, it seems that
you
> would need a lot of complex carbs for energy, but at the same time,
since
> there is a lot of explosion, and thus muscle breakdown(I would guess
more so
> than other endurance sports liek swimming or running), a high protein
intake
> would be needed for repair. Since fat is the most efficient energy
source, I
> would think that it also is beneficial to have a relatively large
amount of
> it too.
> I just hate feeling sluggish, and so want to optimize my diet(as much
as I
> can in the dining hall) to benefit my erg performance.
> Thanks for your time

> JMH

Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
 
 
 

best diet

Post by Mike De.Petr » Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:57:34


(2:333/608.1) scrisse al povero All :
 g> This seems to be quite a common question at the mo.  Perhaps one for
 g> the FAQs?
 g>
 g> First off  IMVHO high protein, low carb diets are crap.  Don't not ever
 g> try them.  You'll be knackered all the time and it won't  give you super-
 g> human muscles.

This is what I would put in the FAQ:

- you are a top level athlete: let do it to your team's doctor
- you are not top level: do not care so much, you have to study, work,
family, write in rsr and train, don't waste time on this, enjoy any food you
lie, vary it, follow seasons, not too much nor too little, wheigh yourself
before and after sessions, more proteins when lifting and more carbos for
long distance,
sugar for you brain. Fruits are important.


--
Ti sento, bellissima statua sommersa.... mi ami o nooooo ?
http://www.studver.uu.nl/triton/rsr/ _*#RSR# Faces*_
http://www.interware.it/users/mike/rowing.html
http://www.triesterivista.it/
*************** _*#Webmaster# TrieSteRivista*_ ***************
*************** _*#Coordinatore#  TRieSTeNet*_ ***************
*************** _*#Moderatore#     ATARI.ITA*_ ***************

--

Atarian ST -TS! 2:333/608(FidoNet) bbsgate.interware.it

 
 
 

best diet

Post by Mike De.Petr » Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:57:40


(2:333/608.1) scrisse al povero All :
 g> well!).  A lot of things that people think are high in sugar are actually
 g> high in fat and so not really very good.

Similar to what men often think about women. 8^)


--
Ti sento, bellissima statua sommersa.... mi ami o nooooo ?
http://www.studver.uu.nl/triton/rsr/ _*#RSR# Faces*_
http://www.interware.it/users/mike/rowing.html
http://www.triesterivista.it/
*************** _*#Webmaster# TrieSteRivista*_ ***************
*************** _*#Coordinatore#  TRieSTeNet*_ ***************
*************** _*#Moderatore#     ATARI.ITA*_ ***************

--

Atarian ST -TS! 2:333/608(FidoNet) bbsgate.interware.it

 
 
 

best diet

Post by Adrian Thompso » Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:34:29


Quote:



> > This might seem like a no-brainer, but as I'm a student of economics not
> > med.  I don't know how to distinct simple from complex carbs. What
gives?

> > are the carbonhydrate in fruit and pasta/rice complex?? >

> basically
> simple - sugar
> complex - starch and other long chain carbs.

> Foods high in long chain carbs include rice, pasta,cereals (esp
wholegrain),
> corn, potatoes, legumes, and fruit (also contain short chain sugars and
lots
> of vitamins and minerals)
> However, I hope I got the point accross that sugars aren't all bad.  They
> are tasty, and very useful for getting lots of energy in in a compact
form,
> especailly after exercise.  However most of your carb intake should be in
> the form of complex carbs (better for your teeth as well!).  A lot of
things
> that people think are high in sugar are actually high in fat and so not
> really very good.
> G

Something that has been developed is the Glycaemic Index, some details of
which can be found at the Gatorade Sports Science Institute webpages at
http://www.gssiweb.com . You will need to register, but its free.
Basically, you should aim to eat within two hours of training, as this is
when the insulin you have produced while training will be most effective at
replenishing your glycogen and carbo stores.
I follow a low fat diet, and eat about 70% carb, 15-20% protein and 10% fat,
and try to stick to that as often as possible. I am trying, very hard but
often failing, to avoid chocolate as it has some weird effects on me.

Adrian Thompson

 
 
 

best diet

Post by Gareth Wyn » Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:13:25

To some extent I agree with what you are saying Mike.  If you are only an
amateur athlete it will be more difficult to stick to a very well regulated
diet.  It is also very important to enjoy your food both for it's taste and
also for it's social role.  But that doesn't mean that you should not bother
about your diet unless you are an international.  I believe this for a
number of reasons:

a) You may have personal goal that are important to you, e.g. to lose weight
b) Most dedicated sportspersons are competitive by nature.  To achieve a PB
is a great achievement, whether or not it's also a world record.  If you
train hard to win races, and improve PBs then there is no reason why you
should ignore your body's nutritional requirements.  In fact, if you're
eating rubbish all the time why bother getting on the erg?
c) The science of exercise physiology applies equally to all athletes
whether it's me or Mathew Pinsent doing the training session.  Both will
sweat and both will utilize energy derived from carbohydrates.  Therefore
both of us need to replenish our bodies. (obviously this assumes Matt can
keep up with me ;0)   )
d) Good sports nutrition is usually also good health nutrition and eating
healthily can make a real difference to how long you live and what quality
of life you will have in old age.

Oh and just to reinforce the point about my little pet hate.  You don't need
to eat more protein when lifting weight.  An athlete training hard,
including strength work requires 1.2-1.6g of protein for every Kg of body
weight per day.  I know this figure doesn't mean much but if you eat the
right amount of calories in a balanced, mixed diet you will easily get
enough protein.

G
(oh and I agree, fruits are good (he says, eating an apple))



Quote:

> (2:333/608.1) scrisse al povero All :
>  g> This seems to be quite a common question at the mo.  Perhaps one for
>  g> the FAQs?
>  g>
>  g> First off  IMVHO high protein, low carb diets are crap.  Don't not
ever
>  g> try them.  You'll be knackered all the time and it won't  give you
super-
>  g> human muscles.

> This is what I would put in the FAQ:

> - you are a top level athlete: let do it to your team's doctor
> - you are not top level: do not care so much, you have to study, work,
> family, write in rsr and train, don't waste time on this, enjoy any food
you
> lie, vary it, follow seasons, not too much nor too little, wheigh yourself
> before and after sessions, more proteins when lifting and more carbos for
> long distance,
> sugar for you brain. Fruits are important.


> --
> Ti sento, bellissima statua sommersa.... mi ami o nooooo ?
> http://www.studver.uu.nl/triton/rsr/ _*#RSR# Faces*_
> http://www.interware.it/users/mike/rowing.html
> http://www.triesterivista.it/
> *************** _*#Webmaster# TrieSteRivista*_ ***************
> *************** _*#Coordinatore#  TRieSTeNet*_ ***************
> *************** _*#Moderatore#     ATARI.ITA*_ ***************

> --

> Atarian ST -TS! 2:333/608(FidoNet) bbsgate.interware.it

 
 
 

best diet

Post by Andrew Trimbl » Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:32:53

Sounds fascinating, what counts as a "weird effect"?  In my case it just means a
huge chocolate smear around the mouth, and a sinking feeling that I may have
just munched through my month's calorie allowance in just under half an hour.
Followed by a sinking feeling in the boat, as the rowers notice the stern
sitting noticeably lower in the water than usual...
Andrew
Quote:





> > > This might seem like a no-brainer, but as I'm a student of economics not
> > > med.  I don't know how to distinct simple from complex carbs. What
> gives?

> > > are the carbonhydrate in fruit and pasta/rice complex?? >

> > basically
> > simple - sugar
> > complex - starch and other long chain carbs.

> > Foods high in long chain carbs include rice, pasta,cereals (esp
> wholegrain),
> > corn, potatoes, legumes, and fruit (also contain short chain sugars and
> lots
> > of vitamins and minerals)
> > However, I hope I got the point accross that sugars aren't all bad.  They
> > are tasty, and very useful for getting lots of energy in in a compact
> form,
> > especailly after exercise.  However most of your carb intake should be in
> > the form of complex carbs (better for your teeth as well!).  A lot of
> things
> > that people think are high in sugar are actually high in fat and so not
> > really very good.
> > G

> Something that has been developed is the Glycaemic Index, some details of
> which can be found at the Gatorade Sports Science Institute webpages at
> http://www.gssiweb.com . You will need to register, but its free.
> Basically, you should aim to eat within two hours of training, as this is
> when the insulin you have produced while training will be most effective at
> replenishing your glycogen and carbo stores.
> I follow a low fat diet, and eat about 70% carb, 15-20% protein and 10% fat,
> and try to stick to that as often as possible. I am trying, very hard but
> often failing, to avoid chocolate as it has some weird effects on me.

> Adrian Thompson

 
 
 

best diet

Post by Gareth Wyn » Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:33:43

**I posted this last night but couldn't find it this morning either on OE or
Deja.  It did turn up in a Deja search though so I'm posting it again.
Sorry if you get it twice (Don't worry A3aan, this isn't a cynical stab at
the stats)**

To some extent I agree with what you are saying Mike.  If you are only an
amateur athlete it will be more difficult to stick to a very well regulated
diet.  It is also very important to enjoy your food both for it's taste and
also for it's social role.  But that doesn't mean that you should not bother
about your diet unless you are an international.  I believe this for a
number of reasons:

a) You may have personal goal that are important to you, e.g. to lose weight
b) Most dedicated sportspersons are competitive by nature.  To achieve a PB
is a great achievement, whether or not it's also a world record.  If you
train hard to win races, and improve PBs then there is no reason why you
should ignore your body's nutritional requirements.  In fact, if you're
eating rubbish all the time why bother getting on the erg?
c) The science of exercise physiology applies equally to all athletes
whether it's me or Mathew Pinsent doing the training session.  Both will
sweat and both will utilize energy derived from carbohydrates.  Therefore
both of us need to replenish our bodies. (obviously this assumes Matt can
keep up with me ;0)  )
d) Good sports nutrition is usually also good health nutrition and eating
healthily can make a real difference to how long you live and what quality
of life you will have in old age.

Oh and just to reinforce the point about my little pet hate.  You don't need
to eat more protein when lifting weight.  An athlete training hard,
including strength work requires 1.2-1.6g of protein for every Kg of body
weight per day.  I know this figure doesn't mean much but if you eat the
right amount of calories in a balanced, mixed diet you will easily get
enough protein.

G
(oh and I agree, fruits are good (he says, eating an apple))



Quote:

> (2:333/608.1) scrisse al povero All :
>  g> This seems to be quite a common question at the mo.  Perhaps one for
>  g> the FAQs?
>  g>
>  g> First off  IMVHO high protein, low carb diets are crap.  Don't not
ever
>  g> try them.  You'll be knackered all the time and it won't  give you
super-
>  g> human muscles.

> This is what I would put in the FAQ:

> - you are a top level athlete: let do it to your team's doctor
> - you are not top level: do not care so much, you have to study, work,
> family, write in rsr and train, don't waste time on this, enjoy any food
you
> lie, vary it, follow seasons, not too much nor too little, wheigh yourself
> before and after sessions, more proteins when lifting and more carbos for
> long distance,
> sugar for you brain. Fruits are important.


> --
> Ti sento, bellissima statua sommersa.... mi ami o nooooo ?
> http://www.studver.uu.nl/triton/rsr/ _*#RSR# Faces*_
> http://www.interware.it/users/mike/rowing.html
> http://www.triesterivista.it/
> *************** _*#Webmaster# TrieSteRivista*_ ***************
> *************** _*#Coordinatore#  TRieSTeNet*_ ***************
> *************** _*#Moderatore#     ATARI.ITA*_ ***************

> --

> Atarian ST -TS! 2:333/608(FidoNet) bbsgate.interware.it

 
 
 

best diet

Post by Gareth Wyn » Thu, 01 Feb 2001 05:07:25

Quote:
> Basically, you should aim to eat within two hours of training, as this is
> when the insulin you have produced while training will be most effective
at
> replenishing your glycogen and carbo stores.

Yes it is a good idea to eat  just after training but not for that reason.
Although you need to increase glucose use by muscles you do not produce much
insulin while training because the muscles become permeable to glucose
without insulin.  In fact after a heavy training period you have high levels
of glucagon, an anti-insulin hormone, in the ***.  This prevents ***
glucose form falling too low and presumably helps to release stores into the
*** for the muscles to take up.

However after exercise the muscle is very responsive to carbohydrate uptake.
This means you can reduce the refuelling time need to prevent fatigue in the
next exercise session.  Also it appears that when the muscle becomes
depleted of glycogen during exercise, and then supplied with a lot of
carbohydrate there is a "rebound compensation" so more glucose is stored
than was originally lost.  More energy is therefore available more easily in
the future and fatigue is delayed

G

 
 
 

best diet

Post by Lane Phillip » Thu, 15 Feb 2001 05:02:12

This probably isn't very helpful, but here's the rowing diet I followed all
through college:  Eat a lot!  Well, maybe it's a bit more complicated, I did
avoid fat and red meat.  My reasoning is that if I eat a lot of everything, I
won't miss anything important.  The extra calories I can burn off in the
workout.
 
 
 

best diet

Post by Bob McAlon » Thu, 15 Feb 2001 08:00:37

Easy peasy,
big input = big output
Eat often and freely. If in doubt throw in another tin of tuna.
Not very scientific I agree, but very satisfying!
I tend to work on the principle that as long as I feel OK after training, I
can't be too far wrong. If I have a bad session, I can always console myself
with a pie.

Bob


Quote:
> Hi,

> Just wondering, what is the best diet, in general for rowers? Since rowing
> seems to me to be such a complex mixture of endurance and power, I dont
know
> if there is some sort of best balance of protein/fat/carb to use. I tried
the
> protein diet for a while, but the lack of carbs made me feel very sluggish
on
> the erg, the same way I do if I eat a lot of chocolate or sugar.
> If youre training and doing 60 minutes of heavy rowing, it seems that you
> would need a lot of complex carbs for energy, but at the same time, since
> there is a lot of explosion, and thus muscle breakdown(I would guess more
so
> than other endurance sports liek swimming or running), a high protein
intake
> would be needed for repair. Since fat is the most efficient energy source,
I
> would think that it also is beneficial to have a relatively large amount
of
> it too.
> I just hate feeling sluggish, and so want to optimize my diet(as much as I
> can in the dining hall) to benefit my erg performance.
> Thanks for your time

> JMH

 
 
 

best diet

Post by Gareth Wyn » Thu, 15 Feb 2001 08:31:39

Sort of depends on what your aims are.  However, as I've said before on this
NG, It is important to avoid fatigue, preferably by having a high
carbohydrate intake.  Therefore I would agree with the general principals of
both posts.

G
(Had a lovely pie for dinner)


Quote:
> Easy peasy,
> big input = big output
> Eat often and freely. If in doubt throw in another tin of tuna.
> Not very scientific I agree, but very satisfying!
> I tend to work on the principle that as long as I feel OK after training,
I
> can't be too far wrong. If I have a bad session, I can always console
myself
> with a pie.

> Bob



> > Hi,

> > Just wondering, what is the best diet, in general for rowers? Since
rowing
> > seems to me to be such a complex mixture of endurance and power, I dont
> know
> > if there is some sort of best balance of protein/fat/carb to use. I
tried
> the
> > protein diet for a while, but the lack of carbs made me feel very
sluggish
> on
> > the erg, the same way I do if I eat a lot of chocolate or sugar.
> > If youre training and doing 60 minutes of heavy rowing, it seems that
you
> > would need a lot of complex carbs for energy, but at the same time,
since
> > there is a lot of explosion, and thus muscle breakdown(I would guess
more
> so
> > than other endurance sports liek swimming or running), a high protein
> intake
> > would be needed for repair. Since fat is the most efficient energy
source,
> I
> > would think that it also is beneficial to have a relatively large amount
> of
> > it too.
> > I just hate feeling sluggish, and so want to optimize my diet(as much as
I
> > can in the dining hall) to benefit my erg performance.
> > Thanks for your time

> > JMH