Pistorius revisited

Pistorius revisited

Post by sull » Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:26:03


A couple years ago we had a discussion over the ethics and
practicalities of Oscar Pristorius's blades.   At the paralympics, he
got beat by someone with slightly different blades.  He protested
loudly afterward.

I won't comment further just yet, because the video of the 200 final
features a different athlete than I read about that Pristorius claimed
was unfair.

Yes, he later retracted, but so did the IOC...

 
 
 

Pistorius revisited

Post by Rob Colling » Fri, 07 Sep 2012 03:05:54

Quote:

> Yes, he later retracted, but so did the IOC...

From what I read, he didn't retract he just "regretted the timing". It looks as if he still believes there is an issue, but that he shouldn't have raised it at the trackside.

So blades don't confer any advantage, unless they confer an advantage.

 
 
 

Pistorius revisited

Post by James H » Fri, 07 Sep 2012 15:18:40

Actually I think he can be quite consistent.

He said that blades, properly assessed to a height that is compatible with what you would have had biologically, do not give you an advantage over an able bodied athlete - which was obviously accepted by the powers that be.

On this occasion he was stating that he thought his opponent's legs were longer than a biological replacement, and this would give him an advantage.

He had complained in advance of the games, and made an error to raise it trackside.

However, I think it is brilliant in a way, because a lot of people were discussing an event that previously would have been in the shadows of off peak broadcasting - yet this was an upset worth of discussion.

Paralympics has come of age in certain sports ..... not rowing yet, but it may well be dragged up there.

James

 
 
 

Pistorius revisited

Post by SingleMinde » Fri, 07 Sep 2012 21:29:59

Quote:

> Actually I think he can be quite consistent.

> He said that blades, properly assessed to a height that is compatible with what you would have had biologically, do not give you an advantage over an able bodied athlete - which was obviously accepted by the powers that be.

> On this occasion he was stating that he thought his opponent's legs were longer than a biological replacement, and this would give him an advantage.

> He had complained in advance of the games, and made an error to raise it trackside.

> However, I think it is brilliant in a way, because a lot of people were discussing an event that previously would have been in the shadows of off peak broadcasting - yet this was an upset worth of discussion.

> Paralympics has come of age in certain sports ..... not rowing yet, but it may well be dragged up there.

> James

This morning's paper said that Pistorius would be allowed to use significantly longer blades than he now uses in the Paralympics, but wouldn't be allowed to use such blades to compete with able-bodied athletes. I don't know whether it would be too difficult to switch between the 2 sets- having legs that are suddenly 9 cm longer might well play havoc with running technique, but given that his opponent was accused of changing to different-sized blades between heat and final and that there's a rule against that, it seems like it must be possible...
 
 
 

Pistorius revisited

Post by johnflo.. » Fri, 07 Sep 2012 23:14:05

Quote:

> Paralympics has come of age in certain sports ..... not rowing yet, but it may well be dragged up there.

> James

If this were rowing, FISA would probably outlaw these blades altogether.

Incidentally,
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/06/sports/tennis/amputees-pick-up-tenn...

 
 
 

Pistorius revisited

Post by sull » Sat, 08 Sep 2012 01:37:43

Quote:

> Actually I think he can be quite consistent.

> He said that blades, properly assessed to a height that is compatible with what you would have had biologically, do not give you an advantage over an able bodied athlete - which was obviously accepted by the powers that be.

And Oliveira's paralympic blades were obviously allowed by the "powers that be".

What's good for the goose...

Pistorius' arguments against Oliveira's blades were the exact arguments made against Pistorius.

 
 
 

Pistorius revisited

Post by Brian Chapma » Sun, 09 Sep 2012 15:10:24

Quote:

> A couple years ago we had a discussion over the ethics and

> practicalities of Oscar Pristorius's blades.   At the paralympics, he

> got beat by someone with slightly different blades.  He protested

> loudly afterward.

> I won't comment further just yet, because the video of the 200 final

> features a different athlete than I read about that Pristorius claimed

> was unfair.

> Yes, he later retracted, but so did the IOC...

Not sure how they make the judgement on how long the blades can be, I am the same height as Lyndford Christie (ex GB Sprinter)but his inside leg measurement is 2 inches longer. So arguably top sprinters are physically different to "normal" people. In rowing if you are stronger you can row with bigger blades, increased gearing, if you  are strong enough.  
 
 
 

Pistorius revisited

Post by Rob Colling » Sun, 16 Sep 2012 03:58:03

Quote:

> Not sure how they make the judgement on how long the blades can be, I am the same height as Lyndford Christie (ex GB Sprinter)but his inside leg measurement is 2 inches longer. So arguably top sprinters are physically different to "normal" people. In rowing if you are stronger you can row with bigger blades, increased gearing, if you  are strong enough.

They take measurements from the upper body (arm span and torso length?) and then calculate how tall they think you would be if you had legs. This is the same for single and double amputees - the single leg some have is not looked at.

They then add a percentage (not sure what) to account for the fact that elite athletes are not normal and may have longer legs. This sets the maximum height you can run at.

Pistorius could run at 1.93m, but chooses to run at 1.84m. Oliveira runs at 1.82m when he is permitted to run at 1.85m. Oliveira used to run 4cm shorter,b ut changed in the run up to the Paralympics and within the rules. (I have seen different figures reported for the above, but the gist of them is always the same).

 
 
 

Pistorius revisited

Post by Brian Chapma » Tue, 18 Sep 2012 02:00:51

Quote:


> > Not sure how they make the judgement on how long the blades can be, I am the same height as Lyndford Christie (ex GB Sprinter)but his inside leg measurement is 2 inches longer. So arguably top sprinters are physically different to "normal" people. In rowing if you are stronger you can row with bigger blades, increased gearing, if you  are strong enough.

> They take measurements from the upper body (arm span and torso length?) and then calculate how tall they think you would be if you had legs. This is the same for single and double amputees - the single leg some have is not looked at.

> They then add a percentage (not sure what) to account for the fact that elite athletes are not normal and may have longer legs. This sets the maximum height you can run at.

> Pistorius could run at 1.93m, but chooses to run at 1.84m. Oliveira runs at 1.82m when he is permitted to run at 1.85m. Oliveira used to run 4cm shorter,b ut changed in the run up to the Paralympics and within the rules. (I have seen different figures reported for the above, but the gist of them is always the same).

Rob,

Thanks, I thought there must be a calculation. Still not sure what Pistorius's point is.