Question about the Concept II rower

Question about the Concept II rower

Post by Gregory Lark » Thu, 04 Mar 1993 23:17:45


Hi there,

I have a question about the "resistance" settings on the
Concept II rower.  When I first started using the rower, I
set the chain on the small cog and opened the air baffle
about 1/2 way.  A rowing friend of mine said that it is
actually better to use the larger cog, as it does not affect
the amount of "work" that it being done.  I think I also
heard that lightweights should use the larger cog, and heavyweights
should use the smaller cog.

Can anyone explain the correct usage of the resistance settings
and how the computer monitor works (i.e. records the power
that is being produced)?  How do the various resistance settings
translate to actual "on the water" feel?  I have never rowed
on water (yet!).

Thanks,
--
              Greg Larkin, Software Engineer, Waveform Analysis
                 Viewlogic Systems, Inc.  Marlboro, MA 01752

 
 
 

Question about the Concept II rower

Post by Nils Gokemeij » Fri, 05 Mar 1993 13:02:44


Quote:
}
}Hi there,
}
}I have a question about the "resistance" settings on the
}Concept II rower.  When I first started using the rower, I
}set the chain on the small cog and opened the air baffle
}about 1/2 way.  A rowing friend of mine said that it is
}actually better to use the larger cog, as it does not affect
}the amount of "work" that it being done.  I think I also
}heard that lightweights should use the larger cog, and heavyweights
}should use the smaller cog.
}
}Can anyone explain the correct usage of the resistance settings
}and how the computer monitor works (i.e. records the power
}that is being produced)?  How do the various resistance settings
}translate to actual "on the water" feel?  I have never rowed
}on water (yet!).
}
}Thanks,
}--
}              Greg Larkin, Software Engineer, Waveform Analysis
}                 Viewlogic Systems, Inc.  Marlboro, MA 01752


Well, this is what I was told and believe. (I have rowed for 4 years,
and I am a physics major (AAAHHH))

The setting does indeed not influence the amount of work done.
If you are going to row in an 8, use a lighter setting,
if you are going to row in a 4 -> 2 -> single, use a heavier setting.

It actually has more to do with the stroke rate.
To practise rowing at a higher rate, set it at a lower setting,
to practice strength, as opposed to your lungs, heavier setting.
My first year I used to do 6 minute pieces at a 24. But because
races in our 4 were at a 28-30, I used a lighter setting, to
practice fro rowing in a race. Now I usually use the hardest setting
and for a half our piece, I row at a 20, for a short piece a 28.

Hope it helps, and remember: ergs don't float!

-Nils

 
 
 

Question about the Concept II rower

Post by David Ian Raymo » Tue, 09 Mar 1993 12:20:17

Quote:

>Hi there,
>I have a question about the "resistance" settings on the
>Concept II rower.  When I first started using the rower, I
>set the chain on the small cog and opened the air baffle
>about 1/2 way.  A rowing friend of mine said that it is
>actually better to use the larger cog, as it does not affect
>the amount of "work" that it being done.  I think I also
>heard that lightweights should use the larger cog, and heavyweights
>should use the smaller cog.
>Can anyone explain the correct usage of the resistance settings
>and how the computer monitor works (i.e. records the power
>that is being produced)?  How do the various resistance settings
>translate to actual "on the water" feel?  I have never rowed
>on water (yet!).
>Thanks,
>--
>              Greg Larkin, Software Engineer, Waveform Analysis
>                 Viewlogic Systems, Inc.  Marlboro, MA 01752


Hi,
  Another related question:

  What are the settings used in indoor rowing competitions?

Thanks,

David Raymond

Computing Science Officer
Computing Science Department
University of Wollongong
N.S.W., Australia.

 
 
 

Question about the Concept II rower

Post by Gregory Lark » Tue, 09 Mar 1993 23:19:14



|>
|>
|> >Hi there,
|>
|> >I have a question about the "resistance" settings on the
|> >Concept II rower.  When I first started using the rower, I

[stuff deleted...]

|> Hi,
|>   Another related question:
|>
|>   What are the settings used in indoor rowing competitions?
|>
|> Thanks,
|>  
|> David Raymond

|> Computing Science Officer
|> Computing Science Department
|> University of Wollongong
|> N.S.W., Australia.

When I did the CRASH-B competition, they rules said that you
could set the erg to whatever resistance you wanted, but once
you were in motion, you could not change it.

--
              Greg Larkin, Software Engineer, Waveform Analysis
                 Viewlogic Systems, Inc.  Marlboro, MA 01752

 
 
 

Question about the Concept II rower

Post by David S Gers » Tue, 09 Mar 1993 23:59:42

David,

In a previous article you asked about the settings on a CII at indoor rowing
competitions.  When I coxed at the CRASH B's last month, the rule was that a
rower could set the vent and the sprocket to any setting they wanted it, but
it could not be changed during that piece.

Apparently the computer on the CII can measure the drag on the wheel during
the recovery (by measuring how fast it slows down) and can use that to figure
out how hard the oarsman is pulling.  This way everyone puts out the same
amount of energy to go a distance, but some like the feel of a heavy oar and
some like the feel of a lighter oar.

Hope this helps.

David Gerson


 
 
 

Question about the Concept II rower

Post by Kai Compagner (I » Wed, 10 Mar 1993 22:23:27


Quote:
>Apparently the computer on the CII can measure the drag on the wheel during
>the recovery (by measuring how fast it slows down) and can use that to figure
>out how hard the oarsman is pulling.  This way everyone puts out the same
>amount of energy to go a distance, but some like the feel of a heavy oar and
>some like the feel of a lighter oar.

True. However, allmost all the rowers that scored the top times on the world
ranking list were using the heavy settings. Allthough the CII ergometers seems
to measure your power output accurately, regardless the settings, the heavy
setting enables you to give more power. Using the light settings I rowed 7.49
over 2500m but last week I rowed 2000m in 6.05 using the heavy settings. That
means I can probably knock off about 10 seconds from my best time! The last
couple of minutes you just feel like your leggs are going to explode, but you
keep scoring better than with the light settings. However, I can't recommend
it for long workouts...

Kai Compagner

 
 
 

Question about the Concept II rower

Post by Michael Re » Wed, 10 Mar 1993 23:51:02


Quote:

> >Apparently the computer on the CII can measure the drag on the wheel during
> >the recovery (by measuring how fast it slows down) and can use that to figure
> >out how hard the oarsman is pulling.  This way everyone puts out the same
> >amount of energy to go a distance, but some like the feel of a heavy oar and
> >some like the feel of a lighter oar.

Yes, the CII self-calibrates.  This not only allows it to correctly measure
output no matter what the settings, but also allows scores to be compared
between ergs at different altitudes.  Otherwise, the lesser wind resistance
at hight altitiude would change the score.

Quote:
> True. However, allmost all the rowers that scored the top times on the world
> ranking list were using the heavy settings. Allthough the CII ergometers seems
> to measure your power output accurately, regardless the settings, the heavy
> setting enables you to give more power.

That's because at that level of competition, the outcome is decided by how
much power you can apply to the machine, not how tired you get. i.e. it's
the same concept as hatchet blades...just try to maximize the amount of
force applied (while not breaking the athlete).

Quote:
> Using the light settings I rowed 7.49
> over 2500m but last week I rowed 2000m in 6.05 using the heavy settings. That
> means I can probably knock off about 10 seconds from my best time! The last
> couple of minutes you just feel like your leggs are going to explode, but you
> keep scoring better than with the light settings. However, I can't recommend
> it for long workouts...

> Kai Compagner


OK...this is what I want to know about.  6:05 is a really good score.  How
do you get a score like that...I mean what components of your workouts
do you feel contributed most heavily to that score?

People were always telling mw about how important aerobic fitness was. Well,
I trained hard aerobically, lots of long distance, with little effect on
my scores.  Then I just went and lifted weights, with hardly any aerobic
work, and my scores dropped. (actually, I'm using the word aerobic wrong here.
What I really mean is U2, or 145-160 b.p.m heart rate).

So what do *you* feel was most effective to improve your scores?

Michael
NYAC Crew

 
 
 

Question about the Concept II rower

Post by Nils Gokemeij » Thu, 11 Mar 1993 01:58:29


Quote:
}


}} Using the light settings I rowed 7.49
}} over 2500m but last week I rowed 2000m in 6.05 using the heavy settings. That
}} means I can probably knock off about 10 seconds from my best time! The last
}} couple of minutes you just feel like your leggs are going to explode, but you
}} keep scoring better than with the light settings. However, I can't recommend
}} it for long workouts...
}}
}OK...this is what I want to know about.  6:05 is a really good score.  How
}do you get a score like that...I mean what components of your workouts
}do you feel contributed most heavily to that score?
}
}People were always telling mw about how important aerobic fitness was. Well,
}I trained hard aerobically, lots of long distance, with little effect on
}my scores.  Then I just went and lifted weights, with hardly any aerobic
}work, and my scores dropped. (actually, I'm using the word aerobic wrong here.
}What I really mean is U2, or 145-160 b.p.m heart rate).
}
}So what do *you* feel was most effective to improve your scores?
}

Well, depends on what you row now at what rate. If you row say
7:00 at a 24, you should work on fitness: get it up to say a 30,
without changing settings on the erg offcourse.
If you are flying on the erg: say 35 strokes per minute, but
you can't pull the weight, work on weightlifting.

Hope this helps
-nils

 
 
 

Question about the Concept II rower

Post by Liz Bradl » Thu, 11 Mar 1993 01:27:03

Michael Reed discussing Kai Compagne's post on erg scores:

Quote:
> but also allows scores to be compared between ergs at different
> altitudes.

Mmmmm...then why are the qualifying times for the Denver Erg Sprints
"adjusted for altitude" - and why are all of us who train up here
consistently ~3sec/500m faster at sea level?  

Quote:
> That's because at that level of competition, the outcome is decided by how
> much power you can apply to the machine, not how tired you get. i.e. it's

I disagree with this.  Witness (1) the difference in body sizes among
people who got roughly the same times in some of the open/masters
finals (i.e., Graves vs O'Leary in the masters women...) (2) the
difference in times in the lightweight finals, where everyone is the
same weight.

I realize that I'm equating size with strength with applied power,
which is a tenuous connection.  However, when you have a bunch of
folks who are on roughly the same training program - and you just
about have to be National Team/alumni/equivalent to make a CRASH-B
final and thus on roughly the same training program - that's not a bad
assumption.  (The only hard data I have is that the national team test
used to include a max benchpull and there was a very strong
correlation (sp?)  between bodymass and high max benchpull.)

Quote:
> OK...this is what I want to know about.  6:05 is a really good
> score.  How do you get a score like that...

Kai rowed in the Olympics last year.  He's a ringer :-)  

Liz

 
 
 

Question about the Concept II rower

Post by Gregory Lark » Thu, 11 Mar 1993 09:27:39

|> Michael Reed discussing Kai Compagne's post on erg scores:
|>
|> > but also allows scores to be compared between ergs at different
|> > altitudes.
|>
|> Mmmmm...then why are the qualifying times for the Denver Erg Sprints
|> "adjusted for altitude" - and why are all of us who train up here
|> consistently ~3sec/500m faster at sea level?  
|>
Is it because you are acclimated to the altitude and then when you
travel to sea level, your lungs are filled with the extra oxygen?
This allows you to become more aerobically fit for a short while,
I would guess.  Several of my bicycle racing friends like to train
out west for just this effect.

Of course, it may have something to do with the erg, too! :)

--
              Greg Larkin, Software Engineer, Waveform Analysis
                 Viewlogic Systems, Inc.  Marlboro, MA 01752

 
 
 

Question about the Concept II rower

Post by J Goldi » Wed, 10 Mar 1993 21:31:11


Quote:

>Hi there,

>I have a question about the "resistance" settings on the
>Concept II rower.  

Etc.

Well in my experience as a University oarsman we do all our training and
testing with big cog and vents closed irrespective of peoples weight.
(This has been decided by our coach who works with some of the Great
Britain squad.)
I'd say that if you want to approximate water rowing as much as possible
then don't use the small cog at all and open vents somewhere between half
and not at all.

Hope this helps,

"Float like a           O      O      O      O          .    John Golding    .
 butterfly,            /===   /===   /===   /===        . - - - - - - - - - -.
 sting like a         //\/   //\/   //\/   //\/         .       email:       .

                              /             /
                            ----          ----