wild and wooley Wednesday

wild and wooley Wednesday

Post by sull » Sat, 13 Apr 2013 02:32:25



Quote:

> > he telescopes
> > it and puts it in his pants.

> Don't we all.

> > The one issue is putting in the outboard oar.
> > [...]
> > We could come up with something special,
> > but it may not transfer from shell to shell.

> How about a piece of string attached to the open end of the oarlock.
> Hold the other end of the string in one hand, rest the oar on top of the
> string and let it slide into the oarlock.

That's what I mean by 'something special'.  Yes we
can devise an extra step,  but Walt and I want
to keep trying.   I played with it this morning when
I got off the water, closed my eyes while stepped
in the boat and fumbled with the outboard oarlock.

This is what we'll try tomorrow after playing with
it today.

1. before stepping into boat to do outboard oarlock, lay
the oar across the gunwhales so blade face is down
on outboard gunwhale.   Walt has to feel where the
frontstops and seat are before he steps in, so he'll
know just where to place the blade during that step.

2. He steps into the boat and reaches out and
undoes the oarlock.

3. reaches back and grabs the oar right at the
very end of the shaft where the blade is,  then
reaches out with the blade to where the oarlock
is, feels the oarlock, orients it if has moved with
the oar in his hand, and drops the shaft in.

I think this will work for any kind of boat, scull
or sweep.

 
 
 

wild and wooley Wednesday

Post by A. Duma » Sat, 13 Apr 2013 05:25:00

Quote:



>>> He had one mistake immediately, turning
>>> the oar the opposite way to back, which
>>> is a way many scullers do it anyway.

>> Yeah. No mistake! Much more stable, easier, with spoons flipped.

> If you mean by pushing by using the convex side
> of the blade, yes it is easier to learn just like
> holding water incorrectly.

I mean the spoons upside down while backing, upside down compared to
normal strokes. So no, I meant working with the concave side both for
normal rowing and for backing.

 
 
 

wild and wooley Wednesday

Post by wmart.. » Sat, 13 Apr 2013 05:39:17

Quote:




> >>> He had one mistake immediately, turning

> >>> the oar the opposite way to back, which

> >>> is a way many scullers do it anyway.

> >> Yeah. No mistake! Much more stable, easier, with spoons flipped.

> > If you mean by pushing by using the convex side

> > of the blade, yes it is easier to learn just like

> > holding water incorrectly.

> I mean the spoons upside down while backing, upside down compared to

> normal strokes. So no, I meant working with the concave side both for

> normal rowing and for backing.

If they were wooden oars I'd agree. As it is, the way the oarlocks are shaped, and the way the blades dig in, if you take a blind person and ask them to rotate the blades "upside down" or "backwards" (concave toward the bow for backing) the blades will tend to dig in and be harder to learn/extract at the end of the backing stroke.  I've found that beginners who just square the blades up, put 3/4 of the blade under the water and push the handles away can learn fairly easily to back well, and if they skim the blades, concave down with just the tips skimming the surface, they can recover their handles back to the body quite easily.  
Haven't worked with blind yet.  Deaf, yes, but not blind.  Good work Sully.
Cheers,
Walter

 
 
 

wild and wooley Wednesday

Post by sull » Sat, 13 Apr 2013 05:44:55


Quote:



> >>> He had one mistake immediately, turning
> >>> the oar the opposite way to back, which
> >>> is a way many scullers do it anyway.

> >> Yeah. No mistake! Much more stable, easier, with spoons flipped.

> > If you mean by pushing by using the convex side
> > of the blade, yes it is easier to learn just like
> > holding water incorrectly.

> I mean the spoons upside down while backing, upside down compared to
> normal strokes. So no, I meant working with the concave side both for
> normal rowing and for backing.

Yes, I see what you mean.   That is easier, I see nothing
really wrong with it.   Certainly, learning to pitch the
blade face up so it skims when backing is more difficult,
most beginners I teach learn it in one lesson,  if they
practice a little after I cut them loose they'll hold on to
it.

I think the "facedown' recovery would make river
turns trickier, no?    I've never thought of it, I'll
play with that maybe Saturday.

River turns with "faceup" recovery work well because
you are feathering the hands in the same direction at
same time.

 
 
 

wild and wooley Wednesday

Post by sull » Sat, 13 Apr 2013 05:49:13


Quote:




> > >>> He had one mistake immediately, turning

> > >>> the oar the opposite way to back, which

> > >>> is a way many scullers do it anyway.

> > >> Yeah. No mistake! Much more stable, easier, with spoons flipped.

> > > If you mean by pushing by using the convex side

> > > of the blade, yes it is easier to learn just like

> > > holding water incorrectly.

> > I mean the spoons upside down while backing, upside down compared to

> > normal strokes. So no, I meant working with the concave side both for

> > normal rowing and for backing.

> If they were wooden oars I'd agree. As it is, the way the oarlocks are shaped, and the way the blades dig in, if you take a blind person and ask them to rotate the blades "upside down" or "backwards" (concave toward the bow for backing) the blades will tend to dig in and be harder to learn/extract at the end of the backing stroke. ?I've found that beginners who just square the blades up, put 3/4 of the blade under the water and push the handles away can learn fairly easily to back well, and if they skim the blades, concave down with just the tips skimming the surface, they can recover their handles back to the body quite easily.
> Haven't worked with blind yet. ?Deaf, yes, but not blind. ?Good work Sully.

Walt learned backing quite readily, he can hold the feather
position really well.  His setbacks are figuring out which
way to turn the blade to back,  it feels better for him to
push correctly, he just got it wrong initially on his 4-5th
outing.  rest of day no problem.

Another reason why it's good to learn how to do that with your blade,
is
that if others are backing and you are not in a team boat, you avoid
diving.  (stern pair backing into stake boat maybe?)

The skill is useful also for correct hold water.

I'll play with it on a river turn.  I've done it for backing
and it's fine.

 
 
 

wild and wooley Wednesday

Post by wmart.. » Sun, 14 Apr 2013 01:07:54

Quote:


> > If they were wooden oars I'd agree. As it is, the way the oarlocks are shaped, and the way the blades dig in, if you take a blind person and ask them to rotate the blades "upside down" or "backwards" (concave toward the bow for backing) the blades will tend to dig in and be harder to learn/extract at the end of the backing stroke. ?I've found that beginners who just square the blades up, put 3/4 of the blade under the water and push the handles away can learn fairly easily to back well, and if they skim the blades, concave down with just the tips skimming the surface, they can recover their handles back to the body quite easily.

> Another reason why it's good to learn how to do that with your blade,

> is

> that if others are backing and you are not in a team boat, you avoid

> diving.  (stern pair backing into stake boat maybe?)

> The skill is useful also for correct hold water.

> I'll play with it on a river turn.  I've done it for backing

> and it's fine.

I think we've agreed in the past on how to hold water but.. I coach on a river at present, lots of novices.  Most of them find it really straightforward to back the oar/scull with the blade "squared normally" and to skim the blade tip down across the surface to recover it.  If it's sculling, the hands make the same movement at each end of the 'back/row' sequence.  While one blade is backing, the other is feathered and hand reaching forward.  Then the blades get flipped 90 degrees (one gets feathered tip down and the other gets squared - both hands make the same motion - and the one blade skims while the other rows.  
That's what I coach, but I also recognize that it's not the only way to skin this particular cat.
Cheers,
W
 
 
 

wild and wooley Wednesday

Post by sull » Sun, 14 Apr 2013 03:36:56


Quote:


> > > If they were wooden oars I'd agree. As it is, the way the oarlocks are shaped, and the way the blades dig in, if you take a blind person and ask them to rotate the blades "upside down" or "backwards" (concave toward the bow for backing) the blades will tend to dig in and be harder to learn/extract at the end of the backing stroke. ?I've found that beginners who just square the blades up, put 3/4 of the blade under the water and push the handles away can learn fairly easily to back well, and if they skim the blades, concave down with just the tips skimming the surface, they can recover their handles back to the body quite easily.

> > Another reason why it's good to learn how to do that with your blade,

> > is

> > that if others are backing and you are not in a team boat, you avoid

> > diving. ?(stern pair backing into stake boat maybe?)

> > The skill is useful also for correct hold water.

> > I'll play with it on a river turn. ?I've done it for backing

> > and it's fine.

> I think we've agreed in the past on how to hold water but.. I coach on a river at present, lots of novices. ?Most of them find it really straightforward to back the oar/scull with the blade "squared normally" and to skim the blade tip down across the surface to recover it. ?If it's sculling, the hands make the same movement at each end of the 'back/row' sequence. ?While one blade is backing, the other is feathered and hand reaching forward. ?Then the blades get flipped 90 degrees (one gets feathered tip down and the other gets squared - both hands make the same motion - and the one blade skims while the other rows.
> That's what I coach, but I also recognize that it's not the only way to skin this particular cat.

Right, it is easier to learn, I tried it this morning.  Rowers should
still learn how
to control the blade pitch backing recovery for other reasons I've
mentioned, but for quick learning, this works.   the river turn takes
a bit longer to learn, but I think the opposite motion feathering is
no big deal.  (in my method river turn, both hands
feather the same way, in yours, hands are feathering opposite)

So do this exercise for me next time:

Row a long at some fair speed and hold water correctly, then
immediately
back up.   With my method(not really mine I just employ it),  having
feathered the blades in to hold, I  can immediately give a continuous
push with hands on same position on the handle, wrists slightly
dropped, then feather and skim on the recovery for the next backing
stroke.   On our body of water,  we have tidal flows,
and holding water is often not enough, you stop relative to the water,
but not
necessarily the shore and the steel channel markers driven into the
harbor floor!

With your method, you have to quickly shift your grip either on the
push or
at the end of the push in order to position hands to feather back
instead
of feather forward.

I think this gives slight advantage to face up recovery, harder-to-
learn skill
but over the long haul more effective.

This morning's row I had Walt doing a series of 10 stroke pieces,
most
of our problems were Caroline's steering this morning, not his,  and
trying
to keep her with us to do the pieces.

My experiment today:
I started the short pieces slightly up on him and just slightly
increased
pressure on his ten allowing him to row through me gradually.  On
a couple pieces where I didn't have to make any verbal sounds,
I asked him if he could tell he was moving on me.   He could.

Again, lots of stopping, telling him where we are and what
certain objects were that he could sense.   To get him out
every day, he needs to be able to scull with other people that
don't need lots of special instructions to row with him.

I learned today he's only been blind for a dozen years or so,
I assumed he'd been born so because he was so facile.  This
is why he isn't as strong echo-location as I was anticipating
 - his brain was sight-wired.    We were near a channel marker
and he could "see/feel/hear" it when I was talking to him, but told
me there's no way he'd feel it's approach if he were rowing.

he has brothers all blind, same affliction, a genetic disorder that
causes a disease which I cannot call.   they all lost sight
at various degrees and ages, one brother still has limited vision.

 
 
 

wild and wooley Wednesday

Post by sull » Fri, 19 Apr 2013 05:19:25


snip

A couple new wrinkles in the row today.

It was pretty windy, normally we have flat water in the morning.
Walt had to learn to hold position in the wind while he
waited for me to launch.   He tends to want to 'noodle',
practice his turns, backing, etc, which is really
good for him figuring out spatial relationships with his
boat, but with a wind blowing it was a bit much.

Much more severe steering adjustments today due to
the winds and the rough water caused some blade
orientation confusion he didn't have last week.

today we had a sculler come down while we were
rinsing boats.   He had a boat on his head to
launch.   He knocked his stern into Walt's head
as he turned on to the dock, also was a breeze
factor.

Walt had been talking to the sculler, so knew he
was there, but of course didn't realize there
was a 27 ft boat on his head.

So I and whoever is his rowing buddy should alert
Walt of "boat's up" in his vicinity.   He can tell
when a team boat is being moved,  there are commands
and a bunch of ppl walking.   A single is different.

He's rowing with another sculler tomorrow.  Should
be interesting.   I'll be on the water and quasi supervise
from afar for this first time, mainly want to know what
I've taken for granted that someone else
might miss.