Built in lights for boats.

Built in lights for boats.

Post by Alex Wilb » Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:48:20


I was marshalling at reading university head (UK) last sunday and I
saw a boat manufacturer advertising his boat. What I found interesting
was that it had lights on the bow and stern built into the boat, which
I have never seen before. I would be interested to know what other
people think of this.

I also found the manufacturers website with a picture of the light on
the bow.

http://www.randracing.net/RR_boats_p3.htm

www.randracing.net

 
 
 

Built in lights for boats.

Post by Andy Hadcrof » Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:07:45

Quote:
> I was marshalling at reading university head (UK) last sunday and I
> saw a boat manufacturer advertising his boat. What I found interesting
> was that it had lights on the bow and stern built into the boat, which
> I have never seen before. I would be interested to know what other
> people think of this.

> I also found the manufacturers website with a picture of the light on
> the bow.

Dynamo would be useful ;o)

 
 
 

Built in lights for boats.

Post by Lizwr » Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:12:55

Quote:
>Dynamo would be useful ;o)

'specially if it meant the lights glowed extra bright when they rushed the
slide - good coaching aid in the dark...

liz

 
 
 

Built in lights for boats.

Post by chris harris » Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:48:57



Quote:
> I was marshalling at reading university head (UK) last sunday and I
> saw a boat manufacturer advertising his boat. What I found interesting
> was that it had lights on the bow and stern built into the boat, which
> I have never seen before. I would be interested to know what other
> people think of this.

Good idea, but bad in practice. At least it ensures that you're lit -
but with the manufacturer's choice of lights. What would be more useful
would for manufacturers to consider that lights will be put on their
boats and incorporate mounting points accordingly.

Most lights used by boats will be designed for cycles - so the inclusion
of some sort of saddle-stem-esque post for the two ends (probably
removable) ....

--
chris harrison
webmaster, vesta rowing club
http://www.vrc.org.uk/

 
 
 

Built in lights for boats.

Post by Carl Dougla » Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:01:47


Quote:


>> I was marshalling at reading university head (UK) last sunday and I
>> saw a boat manufacturer advertising his boat. What I found interesting
>> was that it had lights on the bow and stern built into the boat, which
>> I have never seen before. I would be interested to know what other
>> people think of this.

>Good idea, but bad in practice. At least it ensures that you're lit -
>but with the manufacturer's choice of lights. What would be more useful
>would for manufacturers to consider that lights will be put on their
>boats and incorporate mounting points accordingly.

>Most lights used by boats will be designed for cycles - so the inclusion
>of some sort of saddle-stem-esque post for the two ends (probably
>removable) ....

It works perfectly.  On request we add little posts at each end of the
***pit to accept a modern LED or halogen bike light.  Very neat &
effective.

BTW, why is it that people who'll go nowhere without a mobile phone
can't organise a functioning pair of bike lights (also re-chargeable)
for their boat or their bike?  The phone is in case someone calls them,
so it must be vital.  The lights are to stop someone killing them, so
it's quite unimportant.  One of the mysteries of life.

Carl

Carl Douglas Racing Shells        -
    Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: The Boathouse, Timsway, Chertsey Lane, Staines TW18 3JZ, UK

URLs:  www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)

 
 
 

Built in lights for boats.

Post by Henning Lippk » Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:22:23

Quote:
> It works perfectly.  On request we add little posts at each end of the
>***pit to accept a modern LED or halogen bike light.  Very neat &
> effective.

I'm not sure if that's allowed anywhere in the world.

Rowing boats in germany have to carry a white top-light 1m above the surface
when going out in darkness. I could imagine that those bike lights may work,
but they won't be an argument in court or anywhere else...

-HL

 
 
 

Built in lights for boats.

Post by Rob Bruc » Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:30:34

Not a bad idea, but this would not meet the rules in New South Wales,
Australia where the light has to be a metre above the deck of the boat with
360 degree visibility. Our NSW Rowing Association has their own solution to
this:
http://www.rowingnsw.asn.au/coaching/coaching.shtml#strobe
if you don't mind having to "glue the base to bow or coxswains deck of the
racing shell", and the price (about $35 US per light.)
Rob


Quote:
> I was marshalling at reading university head (UK) last sunday and I
> saw a boat manufacturer advertising his boat. What I found interesting
> was that it had lights on the bow and stern built into the boat, which
> I have never seen before. I would be interested to know what other
> people think of this.

> I also found the manufacturers website with a picture of the light on
> the bow.

> http://www.randracing.net/RR_boats_p3.htm

> www.randracing.net

 
 
 

Built in lights for boats.

Post by simon » Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:33:07


[boat lights]

Quote:
> It works perfectly.  On request we add little posts at each end of the
>***pit to accept a modern LED or halogen bike light.  Very neat &
> effective.

A lot of our boats are now fully wired up for lights - a loom's been
installed under the saxboards to removable lights fore and aft.  The cox
carries a rechargeable power unit, kept on trickle-charge with the
cox-boxes, and the lights themselves are made out of a cluster of bright
white LEDs.  Works a treat.  The whole lot was designed, built and
installed by a club member.

Quote:
> BTW, why is it that people who'll go nowhere without a mobile phone
> can't organise a functioning pair of bike lights (also re-chargeable)
> for their boat or their bike?  The phone is in case someone calls
them,
> so it must be vital.  The lights are to stop someone killing them, so
> it's quite unimportant.  One of the mysteries of life.

Even if you remember to bring them along, so many bike lights are of
such crappy quality and eat batteries so fast that keeping them
functional is a major mission.  The most reliable emergency boat light
I've found is a mini-Maglite gaffer-taped to the canvas.  The LED bike
lights are OK, and much better for battery life, but many of them are a
bit weedy, for the river or for the road.

--
simonk

 
 
 

Built in lights for boats.

Post by marc » Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:49:02

HI Carl.
Here on the Charles we don't allow the use of bike lights especially
the flashing one.  By rule since the complete set of navigational
lights (green and red in front and white stern light in the back).
The Charles is considered an international waterway so theoretically
we have to respect the international navigation rules. We still have
people that don't respect these rules, but they are less and less
every year, since all the clubs are trying to enforce this rule.
Rodney is one of the stronger enforcers of these rules since he has
poor vision and he has no desire to run over any scullers.  Since more
and more athletes find themselves training during dark hours it would
be nice if some of the boat builders will start taking in
consideration this factor.  I made a great set of lights for my wife's
boat, but it cost me a little fortune.  The easier solution we have
here for scullers is to buy those navigation lights with suctions cups
and rechargeable batteries.  The problem is that 1 out of 3 times the
lights go off and you became a possible target for any coaching launch
or eight doing pieces in the river.  Bigger boats usually have enough
space for wires and batteries so boatmen have heir life easy, but it
would be nice if this issue could be solve at the root.
Have a great day.
M
Quote:




> >> I was marshalling at reading university head (UK) last sunday and I
> >> saw a boat manufacturer advertising his boat. What I found interesting
> >> was that it had lights on the bow and stern built into the boat, which
> >> I have never seen before. I would be interested to know what other
> >> people think of this.

> >Good idea, but bad in practice. At least it ensures that you're lit -
> >but with the manufacturer's choice of lights. What would be more useful
> >would for manufacturers to consider that lights will be put on their
> >boats and incorporate mounting points accordingly.

> >Most lights used by boats will be designed for cycles - so the inclusion
> >of some sort of saddle-stem-esque post for the two ends (probably
> >removable) ....

> It works perfectly.  On request we add little posts at each end of the
>***pit to accept a modern LED or halogen bike light.  Very neat &
> effective.

> BTW, why is it that people who'll go nowhere without a mobile phone
> can't organise a functioning pair of bike lights (also re-chargeable)
> for their boat or their bike?  The phone is in case someone calls them,
> so it must be vital.  The lights are to stop someone killing them, so
> it's quite unimportant.  One of the mysteries of life.

> Carl

> Carl Douglas Racing Shells        -
>     Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
> Write: The Boathouse, Timsway, Chertsey Lane, Staines TW18 3JZ, UK

> URLs:  www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)

 
 
 

Built in lights for boats.

Post by engelbrecht-wiggans richar » Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:16:13


Quote:
> HI Carl.
> Here on the Charles we don't allow the use of bike lights especially
> the flashing one.  By rule since the complete set of navigational
> lights (green and red in front and white stern light in the back).
> The Charles is considered an international waterway so theoretically
> we have to respect the international navigation rules. We still have
> people that don't respect these rules, but they are less and less
> every year, since all the clubs are trying to enforce this rule.

Um...my copy (1990) of both the International COLREGS and the US
regulations for inland navigable waterways states:

"Rule 25(d)(ii): A vessel under oars *may* (emphasis added) exhibit
the lights prescribed in this Rule for sailing vessels, but if she
does not she *shall* (again, emphasis added) have ready at hand an
electric tourch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall
be exhibited in sufficiant time to prevent collision."

So, where exactly does this requirement for a complete set of
navigational lights come from? (And, no, I'm not suggesting that
anyone row on the Charles at night without a complete set of lights.)

Richard E+17.

Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans, U of Illinois, Champaign, Illinois

 
 
 

Built in lights for boats.

Post by Carl Dougla » Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:26:32


Quote:
>HI Carl.
>Here on the Charles we don't allow the use of bike lights especially
>the flashing one.  By rule since the complete set of navigational
>lights (green and red in front and white stern light in the back).
>The Charles is considered an international waterway so theoretically
>we have to respect the international navigation rules.

Hi there, Marco -
I can't comment on a local rule, but generally on navigable rivers a
boat powered neither by sail nor engine will carry a single 360-degree-
visible white light.  I'm not mad about that, because I think it pre-
supposes that man-powered vessels are relatively slow, & thus almost
static objects to be avoided by other traffic, which we know is entirely
the opposite of reality with rowing shells.

In view of the high speed of racing shells, I would certainly favour a
rule requiring full navigation lights - port (red), starboard (green) &
stern (white), from which its direction & progress can be readily
determined by other craft afloat.  Otherwise it is by no means easy to
work out from a glance over the shoulder which way an oncoming shell is
moving.

But any light is far better than none, & my complaint was that far too
many rowers are dangerously careless about carrying any functioning
light.

Quote:
> We still have
>people that don't respect these rules, but they are less and less
>every year, since all the clubs are trying to enforce this rule.
>Rodney is one of the stronger enforcers of these rules since he has
>poor vision and he has no desire to run over any scullers.

That is comforting news ;^).  How does he find them to avoid them?  By
tapping the water with a stick?  I'll have to have a word with him.

Quote:
>  Since more
>and more athletes find themselves training during dark hours it would
>be nice if some of the boat builders will start taking in
>consideration this factor.  I made a great set of lights for my wife's
>boat, but it cost me a little fortune.  The easier solution we have
>here for scullers is to buy those navigation lights with suctions cups
>and rechargeable batteries.  The problem is that 1 out of 3 times the
>lights go off and you became a possible target for any coaching launch
>or eight doing pieces in the river.

And that, despite your own excellent efforts, is the whole problem
Marco.  Our rowing equipment is stripped down for maximum daylight
performance, but we must train in the dark so we have to lash up these
poor compromises.

That's why I'd like to keep rules simple, international & to the
minimum.  And maybe the steerers of all coxless boats at night should
have a mirror clipped to their rigger - it may not be ideal for steering
by, but it will give early warning of a moving light or object in time
to trigger a careful glance over the shoulder & any necessary avoiding
action.

Quote:
>  Bigger boats usually have enough
>space for wires and batteries so boatmen have heir life easy, but it
>would be nice if this issue could be solve at the root.
>Have a great day.

Marco, that's very kind of you but you should know that we British
*never* 'have nice days', on principle.  We just try to get by until
tomorrow without getting too cold, wet or miserable, while bearing the
cares of the earth on our shoulders.  Or so we like to think.  Then we
pour ourselves another nice warm beer & kick the cat.

Cheers -
Carl

Carl Douglas Racing Shells        -
    Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: The Boathouse, Timsway, Chertsey Lane, Staines TW18 3JZ, UK

URLs:  www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)

 
 
 

Built in lights for boats.

Post by Henry La » Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:36:06

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:30:34 +1100, "Rob Bruce"

Quote:

>360 degree visibility. Our NSW Rowing Association has their own solution to
>this:
>http://www.rowingnsw.asn.au/coaching/coaching.shtml#strobe
>if you don't mind having to "glue the base to bow or coxswains deck of the

Interesting; for future visitors the URL is slightly different:
http://www.rowingnsw.asn.au/strobe.shtml
--
Henry Law               <><        I'm henry (at) thelaws.demon.co.uk
Manchester, England    
 
 
 

Built in lights for boats.

Post by marc » Tue, 26 Mar 2002 03:53:18

It seems that for once we agree (at least substantially).  As for the
extra buoyancy problem the extra weight it is not going to be a factor
for the racing boats, since the only thing we need is a little clip
were we can attach the lights and a safe place for the batteries (the
same kind that we use to attach bike lights to the handlebar but in
this case they should be***to the decks of the boats).  If they
were posted inside the splashguard they wouldn't even damage the
aesthetic of the boat.  The system that I made for my wife is a little
heavy (we use the same batteries that our 8+ use just because in this
way I can use the BU battery charger), but the lights themselves are
attached with Velcro to the boat and we can take them out in few
seconds during the day and races and the only extra weight is the one
of the Velcro (we still have to carry extra weight to make to the FISA
limits).  When she is out there she is the most visible boat in the
river, so I don't have to worry about her safety, but you know the
Velcro wear out and so you have to replace it at least every season.  
A set of standard clips for each boat would make life much easier for
everybody, don't you think?

Quote:
> >HI Carl.
> >Here on the Charles we don't allow the use of bike lights especially
> >the flashing one.  By rule since the complete set of navigational
> >lights (green and red in front and white stern light in the back).
> >The Charles is considered an international waterway so theoretically
> >we have to respect the international navigation rules.

> Hi there, Marco -
> I can't comment on a local rule, but generally on navigable rivers a
> boat powered neither by sail nor engine will carry a single 360-degree-
> visible white light.  I'm not mad about that, because I think it pre-
> supposes that man-powered vessels are relatively slow, & thus almost
> static objects to be avoided by other traffic, which we know is entirely
> the opposite of reality with rowing shells.

> In view of the high speed of racing shells, I would certainly favour a
> rule requiring full navigation lights - port (red), starboard (green) &
> stern (white), from which its direction & progress can be readily
> determined by other craft afloat.  Otherwise it is by no means easy to
> work out from a glance over the shoulder which way an oncoming shell is
> moving.

> But any light is far better than none, & my complaint was that far too
> many rowers are dangerously careless about carrying any functioning
> light.

I would agree on this, if the light is visible.  We had some very
close call with boats that had really weak lights.  It is important
that eveybody meet some minimum requirement.

Quote:
> > We still have
> >people that don't respect these rules, but they are less and less
> >every year, since all the clubs are trying to enforce this rule.
> >Rodney is one of the stronger enforcers of these rules since he has
> >poor vision and he has no desire to run over any scullers.

> That is comforting news ;^).  How does he find them to avoid them?  By
> tapping the water with a stick?  I'll have to have a word with him.

About Rodney I am his stick until he finds something better.  For me
is not a big problem to identify the shadows of the sculler that moves
in the water without lights, but sometimes can be really scary out
there.  Especially when you have some moron in eight with a black boat
(really popular around here) with black oars doing pieces on the wrong
side without lights, but that it is all another story.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> >  Since more
> >and more athletes find themselves training during dark hours it would
> >be nice if some of the boat builders will start taking in
> >consideration this factor.  I made a great set of lights for my wife's
> >boat, but it cost me a little fortune.  The easier solution we have
> >here for scullers is to buy those navigation lights with suctions cups
> >and rechargeable batteries.  The problem is that 1 out of 3 times the
> >lights go off and you became a possible target for any coaching launch
> >or eight doing pieces in the river.

> And that, despite your own excellent efforts, is the whole problem
> Marco.  Our rowing equipment is stripped down for maximum daylight
> performance, but we must train in the dark so we have to lash up these
> poor compromises.

> That's why I'd like to keep rules simple, international & to the
> minimum.  And maybe the steerers of all coxless boats at night should
> have a mirror clipped to their rigger - it may not be ideal for steering
> by, but it will give early warning of a moving light or object in time
> to trigger a careful glance over the shoulder & any necessary avoiding
> action.

I am all against mirror because usually people that use them endup not
turning around at all.  So I think that the darkness is good time to
use coxes for the longest boats and for the short ones I will go for a
lot lot of attention and supervision.

Quote:

> >  Bigger boats usually have enough
> >space for wires and batteries so boatmen have heir life easy, but it
> >would be nice if this issue could be solve at the root.
> >Have a great day.

> Marco, that's very kind of you but you should know that we British
> *never* 'have nice days', on principle.  We just try to get by until
> tomorrow without getting too cold, wet or miserable, while bearing the
> cares of the earth on our shoulders.  Or so we like to think.  Then we
> pour ourselves another nice warm beer & kick the cat.

> Cheers -
> Carl

I am sorry to hear that.  So I hope your next day is going to be not
too bad!
May your beer be a little colder and and the weather a little warmer,
and live the cat alone!  8^)
M
 
 
 

Built in lights for boats.

Post by Richard Packe » Tue, 26 Mar 2002 05:12:14


Quote:
> A set of standard clips for each boat would make life much easier for
> everybody, don't you think?

A bracket that clips into an Empacher slot (which you can secure using a
small***or nut and bolt) would probably do the job.  Fixing an extra
Empacher slot at the stern shouldn't be too taxing either.

Richard

 
 
 

Built in lights for boats.

Post by ehrl.. » Tue, 26 Mar 2002 05:38:30


Quote:



>> A set of standard clips for each boat would make life much easier for
>> everybody, don't you think?
>A bracket that clips into an Empacher slot (which you can secure using a
>small***or nut and bolt) would probably do the job.  Fixing an extra
>Empacher slot at the stern shouldn't be too taxing either.

At my current club, we use this system with all boats.  

Charles Ehrlich
Belvoir Ruderclub Zuerich
--
                            _____
=======||==================<     |
                            `----