(UK) Walton SBH cancelled

(UK) Walton SBH cancelled

Post by Kit » Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:47:34


No great surprise given the state of the stream ATM. Details here:

http://www.waltonrowingclub.co.uk/latest/wsbh-start-order-2009.html

No move to Dorney this year & all cheques will be destroyed.

So, you lucky people, an extra hour in bed dreaming of how you would
have beaten all-comers with your magnificently powerful yet
surprisingly smooth technique.

Kit

 
 
 

(UK) Walton SBH cancelled

Post by carolinet » Fri, 11 Dec 2009 23:55:26

Spare a thought for us poor blazerati, who were lookng forward to
bawling at the poor unsuspecting competitors whilst furiously waving
our flags.

Hopefully the waters will have receded by 23rd January so you can all
take part in the Weybridge Winter Head - same reach, opposite
direction.  Lots of events in doubles, quads, fours and eights.  No
single sculls though, bearing in mind the usual weather and water
conditions in January.

Details here www.weybridge.rowing.org.uk/winterhead.htm

Caroline

 
 
 

(UK) Walton SBH cancelled

Post by Carl Dougla » Sat, 12 Dec 2009 02:38:59

Quote:

> Spare a thought for us poor blazerati, who were lookng forward to
> bawling at the poor unsuspecting competitors whilst furiously waving
> our flags.

> Hopefully the waters will have receded by 23rd January so you can all
> take part in the Weybridge Winter Head - same reach, opposite
> direction.  Lots of events in doubles, quads, fours and eights.  No
> single sculls though, bearing in mind the usual weather and water
> conditions in January.

> Details here www.weybridge.rowing.org.uk/winterhead.htm

> Caroline

On a separate line of thought, in this very Thames/UK-centric thread:

Does anyone have a year-by-year record of cancellations for all events
due to stream conditions?

It is my growing impression that there has been an upward trend in the
number of event cancellations over the years, but I can't put my finger
on the data.

TIA -
Carl

--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells        -
     Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write:   Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find:    http://tinyurl.com/2tqujf

URLs:  www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)

 
 
 

(UK) Walton SBH cancelled

Post by pdb » Sat, 12 Dec 2009 03:01:17


Quote:

> > Spare a thought for us poor blazerati, who were lookng forward to
> > bawling at the poor unsuspecting competitors whilst furiously waving
> > our flags.

> > Hopefully the waters will have receded by 23rd January so you can all
> > take part in the Weybridge Winter Head - same reach, opposite
> > direction. ?Lots of events in doubles, quads, fours and eights. ?No
> > single sculls though, bearing in mind the usual weather and water
> > conditions in January.

> > Details herewww.weybridge.rowing.org.uk/winterhead.htm

> > Caroline

> On a separate line of thought, in this very Thames/UK-centric thread:

> Does anyone have a year-by-year record of cancellations for all events
> due to stream conditions?

> It is my growing impression that there has been an upward trend in the
> number of event cancellations over the years, but I can't put my finger
> on the data.

> TIA -
> Carl

> --
> Carl Douglas Racing Shells ? ? ? ?-
> ? ? ?Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
> Write: ? Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
> Find: ? ?http://tinyurl.com/2tqujf

> URLs: ?www.carldouglas.co.uk(boats) &www.aerowing.co.uk(riggers)

We could provide data on the Marlow Fours and Pairs which proves that
our recent moves to Dorney have at least enabled us to offer
competition in November. It is not just the stream but also the
waterlogged state of our traditional boating area at the Longridge
Scout Boating Centre.
 
 
 

(UK) Walton SBH cancelled

Post by Christopher Anto » Sat, 12 Dec 2009 03:34:52

Quote:

>> Caroline

> On a separate line of thought, in this very Thames/UK-centric thread:

> Does anyone have a year-by-year record of cancellations for all events due
> to stream conditions?

> It is my growing impression that there has been an upward trend in the
> number of event cancellations over the years, but I can't put my finger on
> the data.

> TIA -
> Carl

You can reckon on 3 in 5 heads on the Severn being cancelled in recent
years. I suppose it's what makes the Wycliffe heads so popular - they never
get called off, except this year (because of snow)!
 
 
 

(UK) Walton SBH cancelled

Post by carolinet » Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:23:41

The Weybridge Silver Sculls (October) was cancelled in 1982, 1987 and
1993, and we postponed it by a week one year (can't remember when)
because of strong stream conditions.  Conditions usually are worst in
my experience from the end of November to the end of February.

2008 was the worst summer I remember, with lots of regattas being
cancelled, including Weybridge Ladies and Walton & Weybridge.

Caroline

 
 
 

(UK) Walton SBH cancelled

Post by Carl Dougla » Sat, 12 Dec 2009 20:05:18

Quote:

> The Weybridge Silver Sculls (October) was cancelled in 1982, 1987 and
> 1993, and we postponed it by a week one year (can't remember when)
> because of strong stream conditions.  Conditions usually are worst in
> my experience from the end of November to the end of February.

> 2008 was the worst summer I remember, with lots of regattas being
> cancelled, including Weybridge Ladies and Walton & Weybridge.

> Caroline

Many thanks to Peter, Christopher & Caroline.  Please keep feeding in
similar info and let's see what it might mean.

Cheers -
Carl

--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells        -
     Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write:   Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find:    http://tinyurl.com/2tqujf

URLs:  www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)

 
 
 

(UK) Walton SBH cancelled

Post by Kit » Sat, 12 Dec 2009 20:54:59


Quote:

> > Spare a thought for us poor blazerati, who were lookng forward to
> > bawling at the poor unsuspecting competitors whilst furiously waving
> > our flags.

> > Hopefully the waters will have receded by 23rd January so you can all
> > take part in the Weybridge Winter Head - same reach, opposite
> > direction. ?Lots of events in doubles, quads, fours and eights. ?No
> > single sculls though, bearing in mind the usual weather and water
> > conditions in January.

> > Details herewww.weybridge.rowing.org.uk/winterhead.htm

> > Caroline

> On a separate line of thought, in this very Thames/UK-centric thread:

> Does anyone have a year-by-year record of cancellations for all events
> due to stream conditions?

> It is my growing impression that there has been an upward trend in the
> number of event cancellations over the years, but I can't put my finger
> on the data.

> TIA -
> Carl

> --
> Carl Douglas Racing Shells ? ? ? ?-
> ? ? ?Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
> Write: ? Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
> Find: ? ?http://tinyurl.com/2tqujf

> URLs: ?www.carldouglas.co.uk(boats) &www.aerowing.co.uk(riggers)

Walton has suffered a bit in recent years. We went through several
years without being able to hold it and I cannot find results for 2000
- 2002 so I think that may have been it. Also 2006 is missing. I am
only going on availability of results, mind.

But I don't know how this compares with, say, 30-40 years ago.
Kit

 
 
 

(UK) Walton SBH cancelled

Post by David Biddulp » Sat, 12 Dec 2009 21:30:32


Quote:

> > On a separate line of thought, in this very Thames/UK-centric thread:

> > Does anyone have a year-by-year record of cancellations for all events
> > due to stream conditions?

> > It is my growing impression that there has been an upward trend in the
> > number of event cancellations over the years, but I can't put my finger
> > on the data.

> > TIA -
> > Carl
> Walton has suffered a bit in recent years. We went through several
> years without being able to hold it and I cannot find results for 2000
> - 2002 so I think that may have been it. Also 2006 is missing. I am
> only going on availability of results, mind.

> But I don't know how this compares with, say, 30-40 years ago.
> Kit

One place to look for data is the usually unreliable source:
http://www.rowing.biddulph.btinternet.co.uk/rowing.htm#calendars

Further back from that it might be a case of trawling through Almanacks as a
Christmas break project.

As far as your Walton SBH questions are concerned, Kit, 2000 & 2001 were
cancelled, 2002 was postponed to Jan 2003 but cancelled then, and 2006 was
cancelled.

Going back 30 - 40 years I certainly don't remember the river being
unrowable very often, but of course for the effect on head races there were
nothing like as many heads 40 years ago as there are now.  Walton SBH, for
example, started in 1978, and is older than many events in the current
calendar.
--
David Biddulph
Rowing web pages at
http://www.biddulph.org.uk/

 
 
 

(UK) Walton SBH cancelled

Post by Kit » Sat, 12 Dec 2009 23:01:02

On 11 Dec, 12:30, "David Biddulph" <groups [at] biddulph.org.uk>

Quote:



> > > On a separate line of thought, in this very Thames/UK-centric thread:

> > > Does anyone have a year-by-year record of cancellations for all events
> > > due to stream conditions?

> > > It is my growing impression that there has been an upward trend in the
> > > number of event cancellations over the years, but I can't put my finger
> > > on the data.

> > > TIA -
> > > Carl
> > Walton has suffered a bit in recent years. We went through several
> > years without being able to hold it and I cannot find results for 2000
> > - 2002 so I think that may have been it. Also 2006 is missing. I am
> > only going on availability of results, mind.

> > But I don't know how this compares with, say, 30-40 years ago.
> > Kit

> One place to look for data is the usually unreliable source:http://www.rowing.biddulph.btinternet.co.uk/rowing.htm#calendars

> Further back from that it might be a case of trawling through Almanacks as a
> Christmas break project.

> As far as your Walton SBH questions are concerned, Kit, 2000 & 2001 were
> cancelled, 2002 was postponed to Jan 2003 but cancelled then, and 2006 was
> cancelled.

> Going back 30 - 40 years I certainly don't remember the river being
> unrowable very often, but of course for the effect on head races there were
> nothing like as many heads 40 years ago as there are now. ?Walton SBH, for
> example, started in 1978, and is older than many events in the current
> calendar.
> --
> David Biddulph
> Rowing web pages athttp://www.biddulph.org.uk/

Thanks David. I knew Biddulphapedia would have all the answers!
 
 
 

(UK) Walton SBH cancelled

Post by carolinet » Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:45:57

Weybridge Silver Sculls was founded in 1956 and is the oldest small
boats head on the non-tidal Thames.  The fact that the first
cancellation was 1982 must be significant (or perhaps people were less
bothered about safety in the early days).

Caroline

 
 
 

(UK) Walton SBH cancelled

Post by Andy McKenzi » Wed, 16 Dec 2009 03:09:48

Having good access to flow data for the Thames I looked up daily flows
at Kingston since the 1880s ( to 2008). I chose a fairly arbitrary
'high flow' (200 m3/sec)  and looked at the number of days/year when
this flow was exceeded - assuming that this would be in some sense
proportional to the probability of a cancelled regatta. Allowing for
the fact that such a long flow record is subject to many
uncertainties, and both the river and measuring techniques have
changed a lot in the last 130 years - the picture is interesting.

There are 15 years when there are more than 40 days (against an
average of 25 days) with flow >200 m3/sec - 1883 , 1903, 1910, 1912,
1915, 1916, 1919, 1924, 1925, 1926, 1927, 1928, 1936, 1937, 1951,
1960, 1995, 2000, 2001 and 2007.  1915, 1961 and 1951 top this
particular league table. The 1960s, 1970s and 1980s were notable in
that it was a period without many hydrological extremes, (drought and
flood in 1976 excepted!) . This pattern of quiescence in the hydrology
of SE England at this time has been recognised in other datasets.

The dataset doesn't support a hypothesis that high flows are
increasing overall, and in fact you would probably have suffered more
if you had been rowing in the 1920s - pity the rower who started a
competitive career in 1924!. In fact the 1910-1930 period is the only
decade in the record when there were never less than 10 high flow days
a year.

It does suggest that many current veterans will have learnt to row
during a period when the number of high flow days was generally low. I
am sure thatthis is coupled with an increase in risk aversion on the
part of organisers, and perhaps less opportunity to reschedule events
in a more complex world!

Andy McKenzie

 
 
 

(UK) Walton SBH cancelled

Post by Carl Dougla » Wed, 16 Dec 2009 04:13:00

Quote:

> Having good access to flow data for the Thames I looked up daily flows
> at Kingston since the 1880s ( to 2008). I chose a fairly arbitrary
> 'high flow' (200 m3/sec)  and looked at the number of days/year when
> this flow was exceeded - assuming that this would be in some sense
> proportional to the probability of a cancelled regatta. Allowing for
> the fact that such a long flow record is subject to many
> uncertainties, and both the river and measuring techniques have
> changed a lot in the last 130 years - the picture is interesting.

> There are 15 years when there are more than 40 days (against an
> average of 25 days) with flow >200 m3/sec - 1883 , 1903, 1910, 1912,
> 1915, 1916, 1919, 1924, 1925, 1926, 1927, 1928, 1936, 1937, 1951,
> 1960, 1995, 2000, 2001 and 2007.  1915, 1961 and 1951 top this
> particular league table. The 1960s, 1970s and 1980s were notable in
> that it was a period without many hydrological extremes, (drought and
> flood in 1976 excepted!) . This pattern of quiescence in the hydrology
> of SE England at this time has been recognised in other datasets.

> The dataset doesn't support a hypothesis that high flows are
> increasing overall, and in fact you would probably have suffered more
> if you had been rowing in the 1920s - pity the rower who started a
> competitive career in 1924!. In fact the 1910-1930 period is the only
> decade in the record when there were never less than 10 high flow days
> a year.

> It does suggest that many current veterans will have learnt to row
> during a period when the number of high flow days was generally low. I
> am sure thatthis is coupled with an increase in risk aversion on the
> part of organisers, and perhaps less opportunity to reschedule events
> in a more complex world!

> Andy McKenzie

Andy -

That is most informative, for which many thanks!  Interesting in what it
tells us and also in what, by its very nature, it leaves out.

Thus years 1894, 1947 & 2003 do not feature in your selection, although
these saw the worst Thames floods on easily accessible record.

Clearly there may be a number of weekends in any year during which flows
are considered high or too high for rowing, but the incidence of such
may bear no relation to whether that year also had exceptional peak
flows.  For a brief view of the historical perspective, it is worth reading:
   http://www.eng.ox.ac.uk/samp/slides/OxJan08-MarshTerry.pdf
The period 1091 to 1093 might have been bad for rowing events ;)

I can recall a Weybridge Silver Sculls when there was so much stream
that it was somewhat dodgy racing up through the old Walton Bridge,
indeed there was a fair bit of chaos after one sculler got it wrong
under the narrow arch.

I have a feeling that more events do get cancelled now under conditions
where once they'd have been raced - not so long back we didn't have red
& yellow boarding.  It is not always clear that the risks are really
that high, & the flow speeds when cancellations of upriver events, &
upriver training in general, occur are often slower than on the Tideway
with a good ebb running - at which times a lot of upriver crews descend
on the Tideway for training.

Carl

--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells        -
     Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write:   Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find:    http://tinyurl.com/2tqujf

URLs:  www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)

 
 
 

(UK) Walton SBH cancelled

Post by Christopher Anto » Wed, 16 Dec 2009 04:32:36


Quote:
> Having good access to flow data for the Thames I looked up daily flows
> at Kingston since the 1880s ( to 2008). I chose a fairly arbitrary
> 'high flow' (200 m3/sec)  and looked at the number of days/year when
> this flow was exceeded - assuming that this would be in some sense
> proportional to the probability of a cancelled regatta. Allowing for
> the fact that such a long flow record is subject to many
> uncertainties, and both the river and measuring techniques have
> changed a lot in the last 130 years - the picture is interesting.

> There are 15 years when there are more than 40 days (against an
> average of 25 days) with flow >200 m3/sec - 1883 , 1903, 1910, 1912,
> 1915, 1916, 1919, 1924, 1925, 1926, 1927, 1928, 1936, 1937, 1951,
> 1960, 1995, 2000, 2001 and 2007.  1915, 1961 and 1951 top this
> particular league table. The 1960s, 1970s and 1980s were notable in
> that it was a period without many hydrological extremes, (drought and
> flood in 1976 excepted!) . This pattern of quiescence in the hydrology
> of SE England at this time has been recognised in other datasets.

> The dataset doesn't support a hypothesis that high flows are
> increasing overall, and in fact you would probably have suffered more
> if you had been rowing in the 1920s - pity the rower who started a
> competitive career in 1924!. In fact the 1910-1930 period is the only
> decade in the record when there were never less than 10 high flow days
> a year.

> It does suggest that many current veterans will have learnt to row
> during a period when the number of high flow days was generally low. I
> am sure thatthis is coupled with an increase in risk aversion on the
> part of organisers, and perhaps less opportunity to reschedule events
> in a more complex world!

> Andy McKenzie

Andy interesting but I'm not sure you're onto something. Looking at the data
(http://www.nwl.ac.uk/ih/nrfa/webdata/039001/g.html if anyone is interested
and, but not including 2007 or 2008, and points further upstream also
available), if you look at the period Nov-Feb when most of the head races
take place and average the flows for each head season then of the 124 head
seasons covered by the data then the seasons 1992/3, 1993/4, 1994/5 were all
wet ranking 24th, 22nd and 20th respectively and we haven't had such a
consistently wet three winters in a row since. The number of head seasons in
each decade wetter than the long term average are

2000s 3 (out of 7)
1990s 4
1980s 4
1970s 4
1960s 5
1950s 4

So the 2000s doesn't seem to be out of the ordinary. Of course the west
might have been wetter.

 
 
 

(UK) Walton SBH cancelled

Post by Christopher Anto » Wed, 16 Dec 2009 05:04:16


Quote:

>> Having good access to flow data for the Thames I looked up daily flows
>> at Kingston since the 1880s ( to 2008). I chose a fairly arbitrary
>> 'high flow' (200 m3/sec)  and looked at the number of days/year when
>> this flow was exceeded - assuming that this would be in some sense
>> proportional to the probability of a cancelled regatta. Allowing for
>> the fact that such a long flow record is subject to many
>> uncertainties, and both the river and measuring techniques have
>> changed a lot in the last 130 years - the picture is interesting.

>> There are 15 years when there are more than 40 days (against an
>> average of 25 days) with flow >200 m3/sec - 1883 , 1903, 1910, 1912,
>> 1915, 1916, 1919, 1924, 1925, 1926, 1927, 1928, 1936, 1937, 1951,
>> 1960, 1995, 2000, 2001 and 2007.  1915, 1961 and 1951 top this
>> particular league table. The 1960s, 1970s and 1980s were notable in
>> that it was a period without many hydrological extremes, (drought and
>> flood in 1976 excepted!) . This pattern of quiescence in the hydrology
>> of SE England at this time has been recognised in other datasets.

>> The dataset doesn't support a hypothesis that high flows are
>> increasing overall, and in fact you would probably have suffered more
>> if you had been rowing in the 1920s - pity the rower who started a
>> competitive career in 1924!. In fact the 1910-1930 period is the only
>> decade in the record when there were never less than 10 high flow days
>> a year.

>> It does suggest that many current veterans will have learnt to row
>> during a period when the number of high flow days was generally low. I
>> am sure thatthis is coupled with an increase in risk aversion on the
>> part of organisers, and perhaps less opportunity to reschedule events
>> in a more complex world!

>> Andy McKenzie

> Andy -

> That is most informative, for which many thanks!  Interesting in what it
> tells us and also in what, by its very nature, it leaves out.

> Thus years 1894, 1947 & 2003 do not feature in your selection, although
> these saw the worst Thames floods on easily accessible record.

> Clearly there may be a number of weekends in any year during which flows
> are considered high or too high for rowing, but the incidence of such may
> bear no relation to whether that year also had exceptional peak flows.
> For a brief view of the historical perspective, it is worth reading:
>   http://www.eng.ox.ac.uk/samp/slides/OxJan08-MarshTerry.pdf
> The period 1091 to 1093 might have been bad for rowing events ;)

> I can recall a Weybridge Silver Sculls when there was so much stream that
> it was somewhat dodgy racing up through the old Walton Bridge, indeed
> there was a fair bit of chaos after one sculler got it wrong under the
> narrow arch.

> I have a feeling that more events do get cancelled now under conditions
> where once they'd have been raced - not so long back we didn't have red &
> yellow boarding.  It is not always clear that the risks are really that
> high, & the flow speeds when cancellations of upriver events, & upriver
> training in general, occur are often slower than on the Tideway with a
> good ebb running - at which times a lot of upriver crews descend on the
> Tideway for training.

> Carl

> --

1947 certainly has the wettest March and 1894 the wettest November but
January 1915 was considerably wetter than January 2003. One thing does stand
out in the figures is most of 1976 particularly August and September; the
Thames can have been little more than a muddy ditch in those two months.
Were any regattas cancelled for lack of water?