Questions re Dad Vail weigh-ins

Questions re Dad Vail weigh-ins

Post by DIPLOCK LEONARD VINCE » Thu, 14 Apr 1994 00:21:26


A couple of questions:                    

The Dad Vail "Regatta Instruction Bulletin", under the heading
LIGHTWEIGHT RACES & WEIGH-IN FOR ALL LIGHTWEIGHTS & ALL COXSWAINS,
states that there is a 155 avg and 160 max for men but only that
there is a 130 max for women.  However, in the memo to all coaches
entitled: 1994 REGATTA WEIGH-IN PROCEDURE-LIGHTWEIGHTS AND COXSWAINS
it's stated that there is a 125 avg for women.  Does anyone know
off hand which way it is?

Also, I've heard through the rumor mill that there is an allowance
of 5 lbs for oarsmen.  Is this like it sounds--too good to be
true?

Any insight is appreciated.
--
=================================
Len Diplock
University of Toronto Rowing Club

 
 
 

Questions re Dad Vail weigh-ins

Post by Jay Feen » Thu, 14 Apr 1994 00:10:22


Quote:
>A couple of questions:                    

>The Dad Vail "Regatta Instruction Bulletin", under the heading
>LIGHTWEIGHT RACES & WEIGH-IN FOR ALL LIGHTWEIGHTS & ALL COXSWAINS,
>states that there is a 155 avg and 160 max for men but only that
>there is a 130 max for women.  However, in the memo to all coaches
>entitled: 1994 REGATTA WEIGH-IN PROCEDURE-LIGHTWEIGHTS AND COXSWAINS
>it's stated that there is a 125 avg for women.  Does anyone know
>off hand which way it is?

>Also, I've heard through the rumor mill that there is an allowance
>of 5 lbs for oarsmen.  Is this like it sounds--too good to be
>true?

>Any insight is appreciated.
>--
>=================================
>Len Diplock
>University of Toronto Rowing Club


It is my understanding that the general rule in all US regattas are that
women *do not* average and that men do average at the weights described above
....the 5 pound allowance is [or should be taken as] rumor.

The only races that I know of that are *not* run this way have some connection
to international racing or qualification for a spot representing the US in
an international race.  [for instance the lightweight womens 2x at last years
nationals did not have to average...EXCEPT if they wanted to be funded to
go to Lucerne...in that case the boat would have to average their weights
at weigh in.]

I would call the Dad Vail people just to be sure.

Hope this helps,

-Jay Feenan

 
 
 

Questions re Dad Vail weigh-ins

Post by DIPLOCK LEONARD VINCE » Thu, 14 Apr 1994 11:17:24


[stuff deleted]

Quote:
>It is my understanding that the general rule in all US regattas are that
>women *do not* average and that men do average at the weights described above
>....the 5 pound allowance is [or should be taken as] rumor.

>The only races that I know of that are *not* run this way have some connection
>to international racing or qualification for a spot representing the US in
>an international race.  [for instance the lightweight womens 2x at last years
>nationals did not have to average...EXCEPT if they wanted to be funded to
>go to Lucerne...in that case the boat would have to average their weights
>at weigh in.]

[more deleted]

Thanks for the info Jay, but I don't understand the rational behind
not averaging the lightweight women.  Applying the FISA standard of a
crew average to men at the 'sub-elite' level while not doing so to
women seems to be a double standard.  Is this an implication that
lightweight women's rowing, at this level, is not to be taken as
seriously?
--
=================================
Len Diplock
University of Toronto Rowing Club


 
 
 

Questions re Dad Vail weigh-ins

Post by Bonnie M. Voigtland » Thu, 14 Apr 1994 20:18:54

Quote:
>[stuff deleted]

As for women having to average:  We havae this go around every year at SIRA.
We in Oak Ridge would rather not average (following national rules) but the
coaches usually tell us they want us to average since that is "Dad Vail" rules.
So there is some evidence that Dad Vail does average.

As for not averaging being some slight of women's rowing...  I don't think
this is true.  It is just a matter of Amercian Women's Rowing deciding not to
adopt a FISA rule.  This I am all in favor of given some of the stupid rules
FISA comes up with especially involving the start and starting commands!  :-)

Well, I'm off to help set the SIRA buoyed rowing course again today: risking
my life in the thunderstorms and the nine foot logs that are coming down the
river!  Anyone interested in a thread on "rowing courses I have helped to
install" ??  I can imagine some pretty horrible stories:  I have many!

--

 
 
 

Questions re Dad Vail weigh-ins

Post by Meredith Morris-Ba » Thu, 14 Apr 1994 21:04:18


Quote:

>>[stuff deleted]

>(more stuff deleted)
>As for not averaging being some slight of women's rowing...  I don't think
>this is true.  It is just a matter of Amercian Women's Rowing deciding not to
>adopt a FISA rule.  This I am all in favor of given some of the stupid rules
>FISA comes up with especially involving the start and starting commands!  :-)

>I rowed lightweight wo 4+ for four years, and we only wnet ot one regatta that

did not average.  It was a small head race in the Midwest.  We were averaged
at Head of the chuck, Midwest, Des Moines, Chicago Sprints, and Nat'ls.
Averaging is tough, because the brunt of the weight loss falls on the
smallest person onthe boat to bring the average down.
Meredith Morris-Babb
 
 
 

Questions re Dad Vail weigh-ins

Post by hartm.. » Thu, 14 Apr 1994 22:12:53

Quote:

> Thanks for the info Jay, but I don't understand the rational behind
> not averaging the lightweight women.  Applying the FISA standard of a
> crew average to men at the 'sub-elite' level while not doing so to
> women seems to be a double standard.  Is this an implication that
> lightweight women's rowing, at this level, is not to be taken as
> seriously?
> --
> =================================
> Len Diplock
> University of Toronto Rowing Club


   What's the "sub-elite level." Lightweight men have to make average
at all levels from collegiate, to pre-elite, to elite, etc.
 
 
 

Questions re Dad Vail weigh-ins

Post by Jay Feen » Thu, 14 Apr 1994 19:52:04


.
.
.

Quote:
>I rowed lightweight wo 4+ for four years, and we only wnet ot one regatta that
>did not average.  It was a small head race in the Midwest.  We were averaged
>at Head of the chuck, Midwest, Des Moines, Chicago Sprints, and Nat'ls.
>Averaging is tough, because the brunt of the weight loss falls on the
>smallest person onthe boat to bring the average down.
>Meredith Morris-Babb

Well as I said in my previous posting I guess lightweight women should check
the specific regatta's rules.  I just wanted to hightlight that this posting
is incorrect in that lightweight women have not averaged at nationals for
years.  Personally I don't want to get in the debate on if they should or
shouldn't average...

-Jay Feenan

 
 
 

Questions re Dad Vail weigh-ins

Post by George Washingt » Fri, 15 Apr 1994 00:06:19


According to Bob Morro, an organizing official with the regatta,
lightweight women *WILL* be averaged at the Dad Vails-boat average must be
125 lbs or under.

 
 
 

Questions re Dad Vail weigh-ins

Post by hartm.. » Thu, 14 Apr 1994 22:20:41


Quote:
> As for not averaging being some slight of women's rowing...  I don't think
> this is true.  It is just a matter of Amercian Women's Rowing deciding not to
> adopt a FISA rule.  This I am all in favor of given some of the stupid rules
> FISA comes up with especially involving the start and starting commands!  :-)



   Exactly how does the weigh in system work for lightweight women's
rowing at the collegiate and elite levels?
 
 
 

Questions re Dad Vail weigh-ins

Post by Ronald K. Ch » Fri, 15 Apr 1994 10:54:51

Trying to explain the differences between the rules governing
different classes of competition (including men vs. women
distinctions) through logic or reasoning is an enterprise doomed to
failure.  The real reasons are part historical, part political.  With
regard to this particular rule, my recollection was that within
USRowing there was a particular aversion to weight averaging within
the women's committees that governed that portion of competition, and
that is why they go with max only.  It had nothing to do with
perceptions of women's lightweight competition as somehow inferior to
mens, but it was simply a difference of opinion.  As you know, there
is occasionally a move within FISA to get rid of averaging in
lightweight weight rules as well, because of the unhealthy practices
it is said to encourage.  (I am neither expressing support nor
disapproval, but the suggestion has been made from time to time).

As for the 5 lb. "grace allowance"  -- I wouldn't count on it.  

 
 
 

Questions re Dad Vail weigh-ins

Post by DIPLOCK LEONARD VINCE » Sat, 16 Apr 1994 04:03:03


Quote:



>According to Bob Morro, an organizing official with the regatta,
>lightweight women *WILL* be averaged at the Dad Vails-boat average must be
>125 lbs or under.

Is there an e-mail address at which I can get a hold of Bob Morro,
or anyone from the DVROC, to make a few inquiries?
--
=================================
Len Diplock
University of Toronto Rowing Club

 
 
 

Questions re Dad Vail weigh-ins

Post by Ronald K. Ch » Sun, 17 Apr 1994 10:32:31

Quote:

>Is there an e-mail address at which I can get a hold of Bob Morro,
>or anyone from the DVROC, to make a few inquiries?
>--
>=================================
>Len Diplock
>University of Toronto Rowing Club


I don't know any of the Dad Vail crowd who are on line, but Chris Blackwall
is the Chief Referee for the event.  He lives in Havertown, PA, and the
homenumber I have for him is 215/789-4884.


Rutgers Law School                                   15 Washington St.
(201) 648-5160                                        Newark, NJ 07102