At Last.....

At Last.....

Post by Paul_Andres » Wed, 21 Mar 1990 05:41:34


Finally......

Excuse if what I have to say  is now old hat, but our notes feed has been
acting up the last few days.....

I suppose that we are all supposed to be grateful that the children (oops...
***s...it's so easy to forget) have finally settled their little spat. I
found myself feeling gratitude last night, but then that gave way to anger,
because 1) I caught myself being manipulated just the way all the greedy
bastards wanted me to be, and 2) the weasels still cost us all a lot of
anguish and have delayed the season. My cynical assessment is that fandom will
now get the honor of paying full price for spring training games foisted off as
part of the regular season.

So what are the fans going to do? I think that there must still be a concerted
fan action to let all the lawyers know. My modest :-) suggestions:
1) A fan boycott equal in length to the delay. Don't go to games until at least
   April 17.
2) A massive fan boycott at some point during the season. A day? A week?
   Someone suggested that we have the great 4th of July boycott which I am
   all for. Maybe it should be a yearly event just to remind people.

Toward the end of last week on National Public Radio, they did a fairly
lengthly piece on the lockout. After talking to the Vincent's office and
some others, they talked to a couple of fan organizations. One of which is
Strike Back! based in New York City. The other group has a title something
like United Fans of America out of Florida, which is apparently big enough
that it has a paid staff of 10. I hope that these groups and others get
together and generate enough publicity that there is some sort of event.

Now that I have that out of my system, yes I'm glad that we will be seeing
baseball soon. I think that the fan resentment which surfaced during the
lockout was felt, and did have at least a small impact on getting things
resolved.

                          LETS PLAY BALL!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        You spend a good share of your life gripping a baseball, and
        in end it turns out it was the other way around all the time
                                              Jim Bouton...Ball Four


home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330         (503)-752-8424
                        A SABR member since 1979                

 
 
 

At Last.....

Post by Richard E. Gord » Thu, 22 Mar 1990 00:09:49

A one-day MANDATORY FOR ALL FANS boycott will be easiest to
organize, in my opinion.

Personally, as I have said before, I plan to support baseball by
actively seeking and supporting alternatives to MLB: college,
american legion, city league, semi-pro games, etc.

&*^% the greedy players.  &*^% the greedy owners.  &*^% the greedy
advertisers and tv networks.  Remember, the greedy pigs' contract runs
out in 4 years.  They'll probably put the fans through this again.

I have rooted for the Cardinals for 31 years.  But since the '81
greed stoppage, I have gradually been losing interest in MLB.
I think the greed stoppage of 1990 is and SHOULD BE the last
straw.  I'm sure I'll glance at the paper every once in a while
to see how the Redbirds are doing, but I ain't going to any
games.  

Seems like MLB has become another version of Lifestyles of the Rich and
Famous.  No one is worth $3,000,000.00 per year--not Kirby Puckett, not
Orel Hershiser, not Donald Trump!  Well, maybe Stan Musial, Ernie
Banks, Sandy Koufax, Willie Mays, and Mickey Mantle were.... :-)
--


027 Smith Hall                         or  (302) 451-1717
Newark, DE  19716                      or  c/o the Plywood Cattle Co.

 
 
 

At Last.....

Post by Dylan Steinbe » Thu, 22 Mar 1990 01:40:33

Quote:

> I suppose that we are all supposed to be grateful that the children (oops...
> ***s...it's so easy to forget) have finally settled their little spat. I
> found myself feeling gratitude last night, but then that gave way to anger,
> because 1) I caught myself being manipulated just the way all the greedy
> bastards wanted me to be, and 2) the weasels still cost us all a lot of
> anguish and have delayed the season. My cynical assessment is that fandom will
> now get the honor of paying full price for spring training games foisted off as
> part of the regular season.

Yes...this whole spat delayed the start of the season by five days...big
deal.  As for anguish, that's not their problem.  They got the problem
resolved in time to essentially play the whole season, what with the
anguish bit?  I for one got what I wanted, a baseball season, and
everyone else seems happy, so why don't we fans stop being so
self-righteous.  We all have what we want (minus 3% of a season) so
whats the big problem???

Quote:
> So what are the fans going to do? I think that there must still be a concerted
> fan action to let all the lawyers know. My modest :-) suggestions:
> 1) A fan boycott equal in length to the delay. Don't go to games until at least
>    April 17.
> 2) A massive fan boycott at some point during the season. A day? A week?
>    Someone suggested that we have the great 4th of July boycott which I am
>    all for. Maybe it should be a yearly event just to remind people.

A fan boycott equal to the length of the delay??  How many of the first
four games of the season were you planning to go to.  Especially
considering there's a 50% chance your team opens on the road anyway, so
you don't miss any home games.  Jeez...can't anybody just be happy
there's gonna be a season and get off everyone else's back so we can sit
back and enjoy it?  Maybe then this newsgroup can actually talk about
baseball instead of labor relations and what self-centered twerps the
owners and players are.

--
! Dylan Steinberg            ! "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best




 
 
 

At Last.....

Post by Randy Paler » Thu, 22 Mar 1990 02:12:15

Quote:

>Yes...this whole spat delayed the start of the season by five days...big
>deal.  As for anguish, that's not their problem.  They got the problem
>resolved in time to essentially play the whole season, what with the
>anguish bit?  I for one got what I wanted, a baseball season, and
>everyone else seems happy, so why don't we fans stop being so
>self-righteous.  We all have what we want (minus 3% of a season) so
>whats the big problem???

I'm not sure the business people in Florida and Arizona would share your
opinion. How about the people whose vacations to spring training were
ruined? They may not feel quite the same as you. How about the senior
citizens in Florida and Arizona who depend on the money they make during
spring training to make it through the year? Social security is not all
that much, you know! How about all of the people who live and die with
stats? We're going to have another friggin' asterisk season. The list
goes on and on.

This may not be a big deal to you but it's much, much more than 3% of a
season. We're all very happy that you are pleased, however, there are
some people that are just a bit put out by all of this.

luigi

 
 
 

At Last.....

Post by David M Ta » Thu, 22 Mar 1990 03:25:39

Quote:

>Yes...this whole spat delayed the start of the season by five days...big
>deal.  As for anguish, that's not their problem.  They got the problem
>resolved in time to essentially play the whole season, what with the
>anguish bit?  I for one got what I wanted, a baseball season, and
>everyone else seems happy, so why don't we fans stop being so
>self-righteous.  We all have what we want (minus 3% of a season) so
>whats the big problem???

Even if they play 162 games this season (which is still possible, according
to Fay Vincent's latest statement), that doesn't mean they haven't screwed it
up.  Essentially, we have a season where Spring Training counts.  Starting
pitchers will be getting W's for only 3 IP; regular starters will be robbed
of playing time in order to let managers weed out the unready, the unlucky,
and the unhappy.  The *integrity* of the season, which is very important to
us historically-minded types, has been irrevocably compromised.  We can only
hope that the effect is not too noticable, and that it doesn't happen again.
I don't want just *any* season; I want One Season of Major League Baseball.
I'm afraid I won't get it this year.

--
        David M. Tate       | "Not all the knives of the lampposts/Nor the  

                            |  the domes/Can carve what one star can carve/
 "A Man for all Seasonings" |  Shining through the grape-leaves"--W. Stevens

 
 
 

At Last.....

Post by Borges » Thu, 22 Mar 1990 02:35:56

I don't know how useful or interesting this post may be, but here is
a lockout analysis from the Boston Globe via the Associated Press and
a local columnist.

First, as we all know, the season will start on April 9th.  The very first
game to be played will be Detroit at Boston.  The game is scheduled to start
at 1:05 P. M. Eastern time.  The rosters will be expanded to 27 for the first
21 days of the season, then will be at 24 for the rest of the season.  For
the first 14 days of the season, a starter will get a win for three innings,
instead of five, conditioned upon the usual rules.  The policy for making
up the first week of games is up in the air.  MLB wants the games to be
tacked on to the scheduled end of the season, postponing the playoffs by
one week.  CBS, who has the TV contract, may put up a fight, because of
programming considerations (prime time and NFL).

Okay, here is a list of the major issues and how they were settled:

Revenue Sharing:  The players wanted no change.  The owners originally
proposed a committee to study revenue sharing and industry economic conditions.
A 6-man committee was formed to study the baseball industry.  The owners
won this one.

Collusion:  The players originally wanted penalties for collusion and language
that would protect them against future occurances of such.  The owners
wanted no change.  The union will get triple damages if owners are found
guilty of collusion in the future.  This is a clear victory for the players.

Rosters:  The players wanted rosters to be reset to the 25-man limit (the
union agreed to 24 in 1985).  The owners wanted the rosters left at 24.
The rosters will stay at 24 this season and expand to 25 in 1991.  They
will stay at 25 at least through expansion.  The players won this one, I guess.

Free Agency:  The players originally wanted those players on a 40-man
roster who are sent to the minors on outright assignments to become free
agents.  They also asked for the 5-year restriction on repeat free agents
to be eliminated, as well as draft-pick compensation for free agents.  The
owners suggested that players should become free agents twice within 5
years if their teams do not offer salary arbitration by November.  The
draft-pick compensation for free agents would then be eliminated if
those players are not offered arbitration by their former clubs.  The
players and owners agreed to move the deadline from January to October for
teams to decide whether to arbitrate with former free agents covered by
repeaters rights restriction.  It's not clear who gets the benefit of this
arrangement and it probably won't be for a couple of years.

Mininum Salary:  The players wanted the minimum salary raised from $68,000
to between $100,000 and $125,000.  The owners originally wanted a gradual
increase from $68,000 last year to $85,000 in 1990, $90,000 in 1991,
$95,000 in 1992, and $100,000 in 1993.  The players and owners agreed
to a $100,000 minimum salary for major leaguers and a $25,000 minimum for
minor leaguers, up from $22,700.  This is again an obvious victory for
the players.

Contract Talks:  The players originally wanted no change.  The owners
wanted a management option to reopen the 4-year agreement after two years.
The players and owners agreed that either side may reopen the contract
on major issues after 3 years.  This was a compromise by both sides.

Salary Arbritration:  The players originally wanted eligibility after two
years of service.  In 1985, the players gave up a year.  The owners wanted
no change.  The players and owners agreed to give salary arbitration to
17 percent (how the hell did they get this number?) of the players with
between 2 and 3 years of service.  Those players must have spent at least
86 days on the roster in the previous season.  Again, this was a compromise
by both sides.  My own opinion is that the players sort of won this, but
it's a modest gain.

Benefits:  The player originally wanted an increase tied to the new TV
contract, keeping the current formula at about 33%.  The owners suggested
an increase from $39 million in 1989 to slightly more than $42 million
in 1990 and increase from $3 million a year after that.  The players and
owners agreed to contribute $55 million annually to the pension fund.  Both
sides compromised on this one.

That's it.  Personally, I like the study committee idea.  Hopefully, issues
like this will be headed off so that strikes and lockouts can be avoided.
From a fan's point of view, I'd like to hear as little as possible about this
stuff in the future.

                                                brett

 
 
 

At Last.....

Post by Gary Elvis Huckab » Thu, 22 Mar 1990 04:37:03

The Royals?  Overtake the A's?  Possibly...but not likely.  The A's rotation is
every bit as good as KC's, arguably better due to depth.  The A's bullpen is
superior, as Mark Davis is simply not in a class with Eck.  Look at their stats.
Furthermore, the A's pen is deeper than KC's.  Montgomery and Davis are great,
but the A's have Todd Burns, Jim Corsi, and Gene Nelson from the right side,
and Honeycutt from the left.

Position by position, the Royals simply don't measure up to the A's.
Outfield: Jackson, Eisenreich, Tartabull.

Bo Jackson gets a lot of press, but he's a MEDIOCRE outfielder!  His OBP is
lower than Mike Gallego's!  His defense is erratic.  On the A's, he might not
even start in the outfield!  Perhaps he'd take Hendu's spot, but not Rickey's
spot or Canseco's.

By the way, KC fans, thanks for taking Storm Davis off our hands for a first
round draft pick.  We owe ya one.

May I also remind you that the A's last year were RIDDLED with injuries?
Canseco missed about 100 games, Eck about 40, Weiss about 50-60, McGwire about
20.  KC lost Brett for a big chunk of the season, and there's no evidence that
Brett's annual injury can be avoided this year.  AL West will be a runaway this
year - A's by 10, followed by KC, Minnesota, Texas, Seattle, California, and
the White Sox.

AL East: The sacrificial lamb will be: Toronto.  Baaa!  Baaa!

NL West: Dodgers.  Either Gibson or Daniels will be healthy, and that will
be enough to complement their pitching.

NL East: Cardinals.  New players Zeile and Bryn Smith will put the Birds over
the Mets.  Look for Smith to have a great year.

I get a little flaky after seven cups of coffee.


"Why do we need ESPN?  Do we REALLY need to see Australian Rules Dwarf-Kicking,
 or Super-Heavyweight Sumo Athlete's Foot Sniffing?" - Matt Gallagher.

 
 
 

At Last.....

Post by Mike Shephe » Thu, 22 Mar 1990 05:14:40


Quote:

> Position by position, the Royals simply don't measure up to the A's.
> [and a bunch of other garbage deleted]

Yeah...sure...right.  Come down to earth and stop writing nonsense.
Bo may be overrated by the media, but he improves every year (defensively and
offensively).  He definitely has as much (or more) athletic ability as Jose.

Quote:

> year - A's by 10, followed by KC, Minnesota, Texas, Seattle, California, and
> the White Sox.

        Gee... I'm suprised you didn't put KC last.  Actually, I think that
California is going to give the A's and KC a run for their money.  It's going
to be a great year in the AL West I think.

Later,

+-----------------------------------------------+
|  /\/\ike Shepherd         | If at first you   |

|                           | redefine success  |
+-----------------------------------------------+

 
 
 

At Last.....

Post by Richard E. Gord » Thu, 22 Mar 1990 03:28:00

Quote:
Dylan writes.....

A fan boycott equal to the length of the delay??  How many of the first
four games of the season were you planning to go to.  Especially
considering there's a 50% chance your team opens on the road anyway, so
you don't miss any home games.  Jeez...can't anybody just be happy
there's gonna be a season and get off everyone else's back so we can sit
back and enjoy it?  Maybe then this newsgroup can actually talk about
baseball instead of labor relations and what self-centered twerps the
owners and players are.

Randy (aka luigi) replied to the other half of your message.
Here's my reply to the portion I quote above.

Before the 1981 greed stoppage (including April 1981), I tried
to get to a game over the first week of the season, usually
managing to make it the 120 miles to St. Louis by the fourth
game!  I, for one, cannot be happy there's going to be another
MLB season.  So far as I'm concerned, the game is tertiary at
the MLB level now.  $$$$$ is primary.  Marketing and merchandise
tie-ins are secondary.  If you are really happy with that
situation, go ahead and enjoy it.  I for one am not gonna be a
party to MLB for a while.  Fine, you want to talk about baseball
instead of "the self-centered twerps," let's talk about Miami
University's pitching staff or about where the American Legion
championship will be held this year.

When will I return to MLB?  After the DH rule is gone and after the
game becomes the thing again.  Greed has ruled for too long.
--


027 Smith Hall                         or  (302) 451-1717
Newark, DE  19716                      or  c/o the Plywood Cattle Co.

 
 
 

At Last.....

Post by Borges » Wed, 21 Mar 1990 22:06:43

Quote:

>I found myself feeling gratitude last night, but then that gave way to anger,
>because 1) I caught myself being manipulated just the way all the greedy
>bastards wanted me to be, and 2) the weasels still cost us all a lot of
>anguish and have delayed the season. My cynical assessment is that fandom will
>now get the honor of paying full price for spring training games foisted off as
>part of the regular season.

You took the words right out my keyboard...

It's hard for me not to believe that this was timed to take as much steam
out of things like boycotts, irate fans, and the irate media as possible.
It may not have been intentional, but I can't help feeling the same way...
manipulated.

[stuff about organized boycotts deleted]

I'm not only cynical about the season, I'm cynical about boycotts, too.
I think a lot of folks who may have thought about boycotting are now in the
long lines for tickets.  Even the few remaining spring training games have
long lines at the windows.  I think the vast majority of fans simply don't
care about any of this.  Very few people seem to realize  or care
that we'll be paying full price to see spring training in April, pitchers
getting credit for wins with only three innings pitched, etc.

As long as there is major league baseball, the fans will flock.  I'm
very skeptical about any sort of boycott having any affect.  The media, ESPN
in particular, are treating the return of baseball like the most wonderful
thing in the world.  In order for the boycott to have any affect, these
boycott organizations need to be heard from via mass media.  
How does that happen?

Quote:
>                          LETS PLAY BALL!

I'm glad baseball is back, too.  The good thing about it is that they've
made an effort to impact the season as little as possible.  That should count
for something.  Somehow, though, I think I should still be more angry.

Oh, well, Go Tribe!

                                                                brett

 
 
 

At Last.....

Post by Patrick T Dicapr » Thu, 22 Mar 1990 08:20:08

Here are my picks for the divisions:
AL EAST      AL WEST

Brewers      Royals
Sox          A's
Jays         Mariners
Yankees      Angels
Indians      Rangers
Orioles      Twins
Detroit      White Sox

NL EAST      NL WEST

Mets         Padres
Cubs         Giants
Cardinals    Reds
Expos        Dodgers
Pirates      Braves
Phillies     Astros      

I know what you're thinking. Mariners third and Braves not last!
Well anyone who knows me knows I LOVE young pitchers, and both
teams have plenty of it.  Holman, Johnson, Hanson as well as Bankhead
for the M's
and Smoltz, Glavine etc for the Braves.  As much as it pains me,
the Yanks will not be in the running.  Pascual is another Andujar
and Leary is not the ace the Yanks need.  The Reds will be contenders now that
Pete is gone and My favorite pitcher this side of Gubicza, Danny Jackson is
healthy, and that should enable them to overtake the Dodgers.  The
Phillies will be Phutile as usual.  Watch out for the Cards in the East,
as there should be a close race for the title.  The Jays are the team
that I love to hate, and I may be selling them short, but so what!  I
still think that the Royals staff is
better than the A's, but that should be a fantastic race down to the wire.
The Sox could win the East if they can coax 15 wins from
Dopson(probably) and from Boddicker(ehhh?), and there bullpen is pretty
strong.  The Indians have the best staff in the East and it is not as
bad when compared to the West teams,
but they have more holes than old swiss cheese.  Maybe they'll surprise
but I doubt it.  Detroit is Detroit, and Baltimore will come back to the
pack and then some.

Who Will win the awards for 1990?
Predictions are:

CY YOUNG:  Gubicza in the AL,  Greg Maddux in the NL
MVP:  Ruben Sierra in the AL, Will Clark in the NL

-PAT

Don Fehr is an ***,
Steinbrenner is a***.
Maybe they should get together and *** each other.  Why not? They've already
***ed all the fans.