Red Sox Dead Sox

Red Sox Dead Sox

Post by Daniel A. bro » Sat, 18 Sep 1993 10:19:52


Any Red Sox fans out there wondering what happened to the 1993 season. Seems
like Butch is operating by remote control..using sacrifices and sacrifice
flies in lieu of hitting the damn ball. And why is a .175 hitter (Pena)
allowed in the lineup? It is like having a blank space. You cannot bunt
every time you come up.

Suggestions for 1994 ?????

Dan.
--
Daniel A. Brown                                       dbrown
Bernardston Elementary school                         Bernardston, Mass.
Laughing Bear Photography                             Shelburne Falls, MA

 
 
 

Red Sox Dead Sox

Post by Marc Jourdena » Sun, 19 Sep 1993 00:41:07


   Any Red Sox fans out there wondering what happened to the 1993 season. Seems
   like Butch is operating by remote control..using sacrifices and sacrifice
   flies in lieu of hitting the damn ball. And why is a .175 hitter (Pena)
   allowed in the lineup? It is like having a blank space. You cannot bunt
   every time you come up.

   Suggestions for 1994 ?????

   Dan.

First of all, Butch doesn't choose whether or not a player gets a hit
or flies out, so let's not pin the blame on him for poor hitting.  Why
is Pena in the lineup?  Just a stab in the dark, but maybe it is
because he is an excellent defensive catcher and his game-calling just
might have something to do with the remarkable success of the pitching
staff (well, except for Clemens) this year.  That said, I haven't been
watching a whole lot of games recently, so perhaps Butch is making bad
decisions I don't know about.  I would love to see a good hitting
catcher who does a great job defensively, but I don't think the Sox
have one.

Another point:  You make it sound like the 1993 season was a major
disappointment.  Although I am (as is usually the case) disappointed
that the Sox aren't going to win anything, you should keep in mind
that this is a team that finished in last place last year and almost
nobody expected to contend.  Overall, the team seems to have made good
progress.  If Roger had pitched the way we had come to expect, they
would probably still be in it.  

For 1994:  The Sox need continued good performances from the pitching
staff, the old Roger Clemens back, and one or two more sluggers to
seriously contend.  I have lost track of who's coming up the farm
system, but I hope there is another Mo Vaughn around.  Maybe we can
trade Pena for Ivan Rodriguez and make us both happy. :)

Marc

 
 
 

Red Sox Dead Sox

Post by Kal Palpatine J » Sun, 19 Sep 1993 01:25:39


:    Any Red Sox fans out there wondering what happened to the 1993 season. Seems
:    like Butch is operating by remote control..using sacrifices and sacrifice
:    flies in lieu of hitting the damn ball. And why is a .175 hitter (Pena)
:    allowed in the lineup? It is like having a blank space. You cannot bunt
:    every time you come up.

:    Suggestions for 1994 ?????

:    Dan.

: First of all, Butch doesn't choose whether or not a player gets a hit
: or flies out, so let's not pin the blame on him for poor hitting.  Why
: is Pena in the lineup?  Just a stab in the dark, but maybe it is
: because he is an excellent defensive catcher and his game-calling just
: might have something to do with the remarkable success of the pitching
: staff (well, except for Clemens) this year.  That said, I haven't been
: watching a whole lot of games recently, so perhaps Butch is making bad
: decisions I don't know about.  I would love to see a good hitting
: catcher who does a great job defensively, but I don't think the Sox
: have one.

: Another point:  You make it sound like the 1993 season was a major
: disappointment.  Although I am (as is usually the case) disappointed
: that the Sox aren't going to win anything, you should keep in mind
: that this is a team that finished in last place last year and almost
: nobody expected to contend.  Overall, the team seems to have made good
: progress.  If Roger had pitched the way we had come to expect, they
: would probably still be in it.  

: For 1994:  The Sox need continued good performances from the pitching
: staff, the old Roger Clemens back, and one or two more sluggers to
: seriously contend.  I have lost track of who's coming up the farm
: system, but I hope there is another Mo Vaughn around.  Maybe we can
: trade Pena for Ivan Rodriguez and make us both happy. :)

: Marc

        I think Ol' Rog's past his prime.  He can lend advice but that's about  it down the stretch.  Darwin's probably gonna be that key man on the starting
rotation within the next two years.  Looking at all those rookie pitchers that  have come up from the farm system (eg ?Sele, I don't remember others) I think   they will have a potent pitching staff in the years to come.  As for offense    I don't see really any changes needed but then I don't have a clue as to the    person-to-person situations.

                                                Palpatine Joe

  "My favorite lawyer joke is ... Clarence Thomas."
                                                -Mark Russell

GO YANKEES ********** GO YANKEES ********** GO YANKEES ********** GO YANKEES
                1993 Major League Baseball World Series:
        New York Yankees vs. (Look like it's gonna be Atlanta)

     _/_/_/   _/_/      _/    _/   _/_/    _/    _/  _/    _/    _/_/_/  _/       _/       _/    _/     _/  _/  _/    _/  _/_/  _/  _/_/_/    _/        _/       _/    _/ _/    _/       _/    _/_/_/_/  _/  _/_/  _/  _/      _/_/    _/       _/    _/ _/    _/       _/    _/    _/  _/    _/  _/    _/        _/             _/_/     _/_/         _/    _/    _/  _/    _/  _/     _/ _/_/_/    _/
GO YANKEES ********** GO YANKEES ********** GO YANKEES ********** GO YANKEES
Jays Die!!!!!
Crush the Orioles!!!!!

 
 
 

Red Sox Dead Sox

Post by Edward [Ted] Fisch » Sun, 19 Sep 1993 05:39:15


Quote:

>First of all, Butch doesn't choose whether or not a player gets a hit
>or flies out, so let's not pin the blame on him for poor hitting.

He makes some rather strange game decisions, though.  Like playing
one-run strategies early in the game, and failing to pinch-hit for
Pena in key situations.

Quote:
>Why is Pena in the lineup?

Because he's better than Melvin and Flaherty.  But that isn't saying
much.  Melvin is slightly less of a hole with the bat, but his defense
is noticeably worse.  Flaherty has (so far) been *worse* than Pena
offensively.

Quote:
>I would love to see a good hitting
>catcher who does a great job defensively, but I don't think the Sox
>have one.

I would love to see an average hitting catcher who does an average job
defensively, but I don't think the Sox have one of those either.  At
the beginning of the year I was reading all about how Melvin was a
Good Defensive Catcher.  I don't believe it.  I think he is mediocre
defensively, and has earned most of his good defensive reputation with
his weak hitting.

Quote:
>Another point:  You make it sound like the 1993 season was a major
>disappointment.  Although I am (as is usually the case) disappointed
>that the Sox aren't going to win anything, you should keep in mind
>that this is a team that finished in last place last year and almost
>nobody expected to contend.

Last October I thought the Sox *could* contend this year.  It was Real
Easy.  They had several big contracts expiring, freeing up a fair chunk
of extra money.  I had two proposals:

1) Spend minimal money, play the prospects, and finish around .500.
The starting lineup would have looked like Greenwell, Zupcic,
Plantier, Cooper, Valentin, Fletcher, Vaughn, and Flaherty.  Fill in
with Naehring, Blosser, Ortiz, and McNeely when ready.  Sign Riles,
Melvin, and Hatcher if you really need extra bodies around.  (They are
cheap enough, though not as cheap as Fletcher.)  Starting rotation?
Would look exactly the same.  Clemens, Viola, Darwin, Sele, Quantrill,
Dopson.  Bullpen?  Weaker, with Harris and Ryan being the only
reliable arms at the start of the year.  Again, I have nothing against
signing Bankhead and Russell, as they were cheap.

Note that Fletcher+Riles+Melvin+Hatcher+Bankhead+Russell is only about
$5.5 (?) million of spending.  And I think this team would have won 75
games, more or less, depending on what fill-ins were signed, how they
performed, and so forth.

2) Spend $10-$15 million on a big bat or two and win the pennant.
Picture a starting lineup of Greenwell, Bonds, Burks, Plantier,
Cooper, Valentin, Fletcher, Vaughn, and Melvin.  Add the "cheap" free
agents if you like (though there's really no room for Hatcher on this
team).  Pitching staff as above.

Total spending is probably around $15 million (assume they sign Bonds
to an $8 million/year deal, and Burks pulls down $2-$3 million in
arbitration.)  If Bonds can take the Giants to a pennant race, he
could have taken the Red Sox to a championship.  If Bonds won't sign?
Sign McGwire.  (Of course, McGwire went and got injured.  But I
couldn't predict that.)

Instead the Red Sox bought Dawson, Calderon, and Pena.  Total spending
of about $10 million on those three players alone!  That's what I was
proposing spending on Bonds and Burks.  And because they needed to
make room for these "all-stars", they ditched Plantier in a *stupid*
trade.  To free up money to pay those salaries, they dumped Burks.

I'm not pissed that the Sox are losing.  I'm pissed that they are
*pretending* to be "doing their best" and "making progress".  I
realize that my plans depend heavily on Plantier and Burks.  And it is
possible that they were so upset with the Red Sox that neither of them
would have panned out in Boston.  But even if that is true, it doesn't
make me any happier.  Good management includes good personnel skills.
And if the Red Sox management is not getting the most out of its star
players...

Ah, well.  I hope Burks makes it to the World Series.  He wasn't about
to in Boston, not with Lou Gorman around.

Quote:
>Overall, the team seems to have made good
>progress.  If Roger had pitched the way we had come to expect, they
>would probably still be in it.  

And if pigs could fly they'd be chickens.  In any season there will
be some good surprises (Darwin, Sele, Vaughn, Hatcher) and some bad
surprises (Clemens).

Quote:
>I have lost track of who's coming up the farm
>system, but I hope there is another Mo Vaughn around.

None on the immediate horizon.  McNeely is a good basestealer, and
walks a fair amount, and plays good defense.  He will probably step
into CF and the leadoff spot by the end of next year, but he has not
progressed as well as I had hoped a couple years ago.  (I was hoping
that he would do all of the above *and* hit .280 with 15-20 HR power.)

Blosser has good power, but has trouble connecting.  Lots of
strikeouts.  Of course Plantier struck out a lot in the minors too.
Blosser is still reasonably young, and could turn out to be a gem.  He
could also turn out to be Rob Deer minus the defense.

Ortiz is your classic Latino hitter, with decent power, a good BA, and
little patience.  He plays 3B, but is being considered at other
positions due to (supposedly) poor defense and Scott Cooper.

Tim Naehring, if he can stay healthy, could hit like Cooper and play
anywhere in the infield.  He might fit in nicely at second base.  He
might also develop another mysterious injury.

I don't really see any players with star potential...  There are a
couple pitchers who might turn out okay (including Minchey who had a
nice game the other day, and Frankie Rodriguez who has been much
ballyhooed), but none that are about to make a "top prospect" list.

-Valentine

 
 
 

Red Sox Dead Sox

Post by Barney Luttb » Sun, 19 Sep 1993 06:50:09


Quote:

> : Marc

>    I think Ol' Rog's past his prime.  He can lend advice but that's about  it down the stretch.  Darwin's probably gonna be that key man on the starting
> rotation within the next two years.  Looking at all those rookie pitchers that  have come up from the farm system (eg ?Sele, I don't remember others) I think   they will have a potent pitching staff in the years to come.  As for offense    I don't see really any changes needed but then I don't have a clue as to the    person-to-person situations.

>                                            Palpatine Joe

>   "My favorite lawyer joke is ... Clarence Thomas."
>                                            -Mark Russell

> GO YANKEES ********** GO YANKEES ********** GO YANKEES ********** GO YANKEES
>            1993 Major League Baseball World Series:
>    New York Yankees vs. (Look like it's gonna be Atlanta)

>      _/_/_/   _/_/      _/    _/   _/_/    _/    _/  _/    _/    _/_/_/  _/       _/       _/    _/     _/  _/  _/    _/  _/_/  _/  _/_/_/    _/        _/       _/    _/ _/    _/       _/    _/_/_/_/  _/  _/_/  _/  _/      _/_/    _/       _/    _/ _/    _/       _/    _/    _/  _/    _/  _/    _/        _/             _/_/     _/_/         _/    _/    _/  _/    _/  _/     _/ _/_/_/    _/
> GO YANKEES ********** GO YANKEES ********** GO YANKEES ********** GO YANKEES
> Jays Die!!!!!
> Crush the Orioles!!!!!

Darwin is much older than Clemens, but you say clemens is over and darwin
will improve in the next couple of years.  Stick to the yankess, and forget
your clemens is over dreams.

Barney Luttbeg           Center for Population Biology     UC Davis

Home of the losers:  Boston Red Sox, Florida State Seminoles,              

                     New York Islanders, and Los Angeles Raiders

 
 
 

Red Sox Dead Sox

Post by PETERS, JEFFREY » Sun, 19 Sep 1993 12:27:00

     Everyone jumps off the bandwagon because he has one bad season? Not
me. Roger Clemens is still the best pitcher in baseball, bar none. Yeah,
Sele is having an excellent season, and yes Darwin looks like the ace of
this years staff, but don't count out the Rocket. I know Wednesday's
victory wasn't pretty, but as my high school football coach once said, "A W
is a W, no matter how you look at it." I'm persecuted back home here in
Canada because I'm not a Jays fan but plainly and simply: I HATE THE JAYS!
Does anyone know if the Sox game against the Yankees is on t.v. tomorrow?
What a tough call-Bosox ball or Notre Dame football. I'm glad they start
at different times. Final point being, don't write off Clemens or the Sox
for that matter. See you in October....

P.S.: I didn't think it would be fair to post without mentioning the Hit
Dog. What a season you are having, Mo. We all knew you could do it. Keep it
up!

Jeff

 
 
 

Red Sox Dead Sox

Post by Daniel A. bro » Sun, 19 Sep 1993 13:18:18


Quote:
>     Everyone jumps off the bandwagon because he has one bad season? Not
>me. Roger Clemens is still the best pitcher in baseball, bar none. Yeah,
>Sele is having an excellent season, and yes Darwin looks like the ace of
>this years staff, but don't count out the Rocket. I know Wednesday's
>victory wasn't pretty, but as my high school football coach once said, "A W
>is a W, no matter how you look at it." I'm persecuted back home here in
>Canada because I'm not a Jays fan but plainly and simply: I HATE THE JAYS!
>Does anyone know if the Sox game against the Yankees is on t.v. tomorrow?
>What a tough call-Bosox ball or Notre Dame football. I'm glad they start
>at different times. Final point being, don't write off Clemens or the Sox
>for that matter. See you in October....

>P.S.: I didn't think it would be fair to post without mentioning the Hit
>Dog. What a season you are having, Mo. We all knew you could do it. Keep it
>up!

>Jeff

The game is on NESN I believe. The Sox are 8 games out as of 9/18 and the
hour is getting late. It should be obvious that losing Russell was the death
blow for the Sox. If Dopson was a horse, he would be shot.....Waaaa! Ever
watch the '86 World Series Game 6? Jesus, what a moment.

You might hate the Jays but you cannot beat their lineup. Everyone but King
Kong!

-DAN
--
Daniel A. Brown                                       dbrown
Bernardston Elementary school                         Bernardston, Mass.
Laughing Bear Photography                             Shelburne Falls, MA

 
 
 

Red Sox Dead Sox

Post by PETERS, JEFFREY » Sun, 19 Sep 1993 16:57:00

     Dan, I have to believe. I need redemption for 1986. I still have bad
dreams. I hate waking up crying with my pillow between my legs, trying to
plug the hole not only between my legs but also in my heart. Why can't they
win for Sele? He deserves so much better than he is getting. However, he
did get the International League Pitcher of the Year. Does anyone know what
ever happened to the Frankie Rodriguez*** trial. I think I heared that
the charges were lowered. Info?? Who's got it?? Post soon, I'm interested.
 
 
 

Red Sox Dead Sox

Post by Michael David Jon » Mon, 20 Sep 1993 03:01:18


Quote:


>: First of all, Butch doesn't choose whether or not a player gets a hit
>: or flies out, so let's not pin the blame on him for poor hitting.  Why
>: is Pena in the lineup?  Just a stab in the dark, but maybe it is
>: because he is an excellent defensive catcher and his game-calling just
>: might have something to do with the remarkable success of the pitching
>: staff (well, except for Clemens) this year.  That said, I haven't been
>: watching a whole lot of games recently, so perhaps Butch is making bad
>: decisions I don't know about.  I would love to see a good hitting
>: catcher who does a great job defensively, but I don't think the Sox
>: have one.

1. No, but Clemens chooses who goes in the lineup?
2. What is is about Pena? He gets credit for the pitching going well,
but not blame for it going bad? I wish I could get my boss to think like
that.... I mean, I like Tony, I love to watch him behind the plate, but
unless he can telekinetically alter the paths of pitches he's not going
to be good enough defensively to make up for being such a completel
black hole offensively.

Quote:
> I think Ol' Rog's past his prime.  He can lend advice but
> that's about  it down the stretch.  Darwin's probably gonna be that key
> man on the starting rotation within the next two years.

Let's see...Darwin is 37, Clemens is 30. Care to take another swing at
this one?

Quote:
> Looking at all those rookie
> pitchers that  have come up from the farm system (eg ?Sele, I don't
> remember others) I think   they will have a potent pitching staff in
> the years to come.  As for offense    I don't see really any changes
> needed but then I don't have a clue as to the    person-to-person
> situations.

Let's see...their pitching has been the best in the league all year,
their offense sucks dirty c***water through a straw.
If I were a Yankee fan, I'd like to see the Red Sox take your
evaluations.


Added Value
        n. The Features or Bells and Whistles that distingush one product from
another. As in: "This mission is strategic to our division. If we are to keep
it, our proposals must have visible added value."
        - from the IBM Jargon and General Computing Dictionary, 9th ed.

 
 
 

Red Sox Dead Sox

Post by Evan Leibovit » Sat, 25 Sep 1993 00:38:41



Quote:
>Everyone jumps off the bandwagon because he has one bad season? Not
>me. Roger Clemens is still the best pitcher in baseball, bar none.
>[and]
>I'm persecuted back home here in
>Canada because I'm not a Jays fan but plainly and simply: I HATE THE JAYS!

I take it you'll get no satisfaction from the trivia mentioned during
this week's game, that the Jays are the first team ever to have beaten
Roger four times in one season. Prior to the last one, a 5-0 shutout by
Todd Stottlmyre(sp), his ERA against the Jays this year was over 14.

--
 Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario

If there's someone you can live without .... then do so - The Bare*** Ladies