Best centers (since 1980) - and why Shaq gets little respect...

Best centers (since 1980) - and why Shaq gets little respect...

Post by John Smi » Wed, 24 Apr 2002 06:12:21


Hello all,
  I have a statement and somewhat of a question at the same time.  I
want your opinion on the most dominating centers in the game since the
1980 and onward.

My top four are Kareem, Moses Malone, Hakeem, and Shaq.  I don't think
anyone will dispute these are all great centers.  I say Kareem because
he was very good at many things... and his mental toughness and
detemination reminds me of Tim Duncan and his reserved (yet strong)
willpower.

I put Malone in there because he was an absolute workhorse.  He might
not have put up 30ppg but he would dominate the boards like no other
and take up SPACE on the inside.

I think Hakeem may be the best all around player of any of these guys.
 I remember watching him put on a clinic with David Robinson guarding
him.  His O was tantalizing while defensive presence was just as
strong.

I'm saving shaq for the end because he is the subject of my question.
I think Shaq might be the most *** player the NBA has ever seen.
People always say... "Well... if I were that big."  Well, if you were
that big you may not eb able to do a 1/4 of the things he does.  His
agility at that size is astonishing.  I think at times that he is not
trying, but call in the re-inforcements if he gets pissed off.
However, why is it that Shaq gets no respect from a lot of people?

-- regards,

John

 
 
 

Best centers (since 1980) - and why Shaq gets little respect...

Post by Branden Wolne » Wed, 24 Apr 2002 06:25:42


Quote:
> However, why is it that Shaq gets no respect from a lot of people?

Jealousy. Pure and simple.
--
Hence, the Super Spurs are 3-1 against the Lamers this season
and  I don't care what argument Lamer fans give to the contrary.
  - "No3Peat4U"

 
 
 

Best centers (since 1980) - and why Shaq gets little respect...

Post by jt » Wed, 24 Apr 2002 06:51:05



Quote:
> I'm saving shaq for the end because he is the subject of my question.
> I think Shaq might be the most *** player the NBA has ever seen.
> People always say... "Well... if I were that big."  Well, if you were
> that big you may not eb able to do a 1/4 of the things he does.  His
> agility at that size is astonishing.  I think at times that he is not
> trying, but call in the re-inforcements if he gets pissed off.
> However, why is it that Shaq gets no respect from a lot of people?

> -- regards,

> John

There will never ever be a player as dominating as Wilt Chamberlain. 100
points? 'Nuff said.

That said, Shaq is easily a top 5 center in the history of the NBA. I am
not a Lakers fan but I definately respect Shaq. For a guy his size, he
has great agility and footwork.

 
 
 

Best centers (since 1980) - and why Shaq gets little respect...

Post by MB » Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:46:55

Quote:

> Hello all,
>   I have a statement and somewhat of a question at the same time.  I
> want your opinion on the most dominating centers in the game since the
> 1980 and onward.

> My top four are Kareem, Moses Malone, Hakeem, and Shaq.  I don't think
> anyone will dispute these are all great centers.  I say Kareem because
> he was very good at many things... and his mental toughness and
> detemination reminds me of Tim Duncan and his reserved (yet strong)
> willpower.

    I think the most "***" after 1980 were, in order, Shaq and then Moses.
Kareem was still good after 1980 - and arguably still "the best" for a while - but
I think his most "***" years were past him.  He'd come in fourth of these
four, just for the period you specify.  He exceeds Moses and Hakeem in terms of
career ***.  School's still out on Shaq's career status, but he's getting up
there with Kareem and Wilt.

Quote:
> I put Malone in there because he was an absolute workhorse.  He might
> not have put up 30ppg but he would dominate the boards like no other
> and take up SPACE on the inside.

> I think Hakeem may be the best all around player of any of these guys.
>  I remember watching him put on a clinic with David Robinson guarding
> him.  His O was tantalizing while defensive presence was just as
> strong.

> I'm saving shaq for the end because he is the subject of my question.
> I think Shaq might be the most *** player the NBA has ever seen.
> People always say... "Well... if I were that big."  Well, if you were
> that big you may not eb able to do a 1/4 of the things he does.  His
> agility at that size is astonishing.  I think at times that he is not
> trying, but call in the re-inforcements if he gets pissed off.
> However, why is it that Shaq gets no respect from a lot of people?

    He is about 30 pounds overweight.  However, if there were more challenges for
him in this league, I dare say he'd be more motivated during his off seasons.
    Another thing I have mentioned in other threads is the popular opinion that
there are no talented centers in the league today.  This flies in the face of the
fact that most of the best power forwards in the game match the average starting
center in terms of height or weight or both.  (Average being 6'11, 250 lb.)
    The talent is still there at that size, but the position of center has been
pretty much sacrificed to O'Neal league-wide in the form of less talented scrubs
who can play physical and can be lost to foul trouble without great harm to their
team.  There are some exceptions, of course, but that is pre***ly the sort of
player that is put in the position these days.  O'Neal, in more ways than one,
casts a mighty long shadow.
    Meanwhile, today's top power forwards, who in past years would have
undoubtedly played center, are being protected from comparison with O'Neal (and
from foul trouble) by playing a different position.
    Another factor in his lack of respect (where it applies, because I actually
think he gets plenty of respect, on the whole) is that casual basketball fans look
at O'Neal and his size and strength and assume that he succeeds by brute force.
The casual fan does not recognize the skills utilized by big men in the post, and
the subtle use of power required to gain and maintain a desired position near the
basket.  After that, most casual fans don't recognize skills like drop steps and
up and under moves.  Basically, the casual fan recognizes the skill of 3-point
shooting, dribbling, and open-court moves.  They might not appreciate the level of
finesse involved in O'Neal's game.
 
 
 

Best centers (since 1980) - and why Shaq gets little respect...

Post by Chris Zabe » Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:34:12

You leave out Ewing and Robinson, and Kareem post 1980 was not as ***
as he had been in the 70's.  Mourning should also be included(even if his
teams never really did anything in the playoffs, it was more Riley's
construction of the team that did the Heat in).  Also, no one wants to be
called a center in the modern era anymore, even though Duncan is clearly a
center(easier to make 1st team all nba if no Shaq to compete with).
 
 
 

Best centers (since 1980) - and why Shaq gets little respect...

Post by bulk_tr » Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:55:06

Quote:

> I'm saving shaq for the end because he is the subject of my question.
> I think Shaq might be the most *** player the NBA has ever seen.
> People always say... "Well... if I were that big."  Well, if you were
> that big you may not eb able to do a 1/4 of the things he does.  His
> agility at that size is astonishing.  I think at times that he is not
> trying, but call in the re-inforcements if he gets pissed off.
> However, why is it that Shaq gets no respect from a lot of people?

  Perhaps it's because he's now playing in an era when the level of
competition at the center position is considered to be weaker than in
the past. Thus, a truly "***" center in today's NBA might be expected
to get somewhere around 35 points and 15-20 rebounds per game.
 
 
 

Best centers (since 1980) - and why Shaq gets little respect...

Post by Eric Hightowe » Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:06:47

In the immortal words of Wilt himself "Nobody loves Goliath". The same
people who bash Shaq and try to deny that he is the most *** player
since Wilt would take him on their respective teams in a heartbeat if
given the chance. Shaq completely controls the game from an offensive
and defensive standpoint. I don't think people will truly appreciate
Shaq until he is gone and they realize that there is no one else coming
along like him. Not just in terms of the power and force of his game,
but in his ability to still be atheletic while weighing 330+ lbs. and
being hammered constantly by hacks brought into the league specifically
for the purpose of fouling him. Last year I thought he was the 4th best
center of all time, now I think he is 3rd best and soon will be 2nd.
There is no limit to how high this guy can go. People always want to
bring up Wilt's numbers, but what they have to realize is that Wilt was
playing against guys like Russell who were 6'8 or 6'9, if Shaq were
going up against guys that size on a nightly basis he would be posting
very similar numbers!!!
Quote:

>However, why is it that Shaq gets no respect from a lot of people?

> -- regards,

> John

 
 
 

Best centers (since 1980) - and why Shaq gets little respect...

Post by bulk_tr » Fri, 03 May 2002 11:21:03

Quote:

> However, why is it that Shaq gets no respect from a lot of people?

  It could be because of his own lack of respect for other people.
 
 
 

Best centers (since 1980) - and why Shaq gets little respect...

Post by D. Gerasimat » Fri, 03 May 2002 16:24:21


Quote:

>  It could be because of his own lack of respect for other people.

He has paid only the utmost respect to people that deserve it like Phil
Jackson and Hakeem Olajuwon.

Dimitri

 
 
 

Best centers (since 1980) - and why Shaq gets little respect...

Post by Steve Jar » Fri, 03 May 2002 22:28:29

This is of course i very defensible list, but IMO could be improved by
the addition of Patrick Ewing.

And yes, Shaq gets some diss because he is so freakin' godzilla-huge.
It's his size that makes him *** not his skills.

Quote:

> Hello all,
>   I have a statement and somewhat of a question at the same time.  I
> want your opinion on the most dominating centers in the game since the
> 1980 and onward.

> My top four are Kareem, Moses Malone, Hakeem, and Shaq.  I don't think
> anyone will dispute these are all great centers.  I say Kareem because
> he was very good at many things... and his mental toughness and
> detemination reminds me of Tim Duncan and his reserved (yet strong)
> willpower.

> I put Malone in there because he was an absolute workhorse.  He might
> not have put up 30ppg but he would dominate the boards like no other
> and take up SPACE on the inside.

> I think Hakeem may be the best all around player of any of these guys.
>  I remember watching him put on a clinic with David Robinson guarding
> him.  His O was tantalizing while defensive presence was just as
> strong.

> I'm saving shaq for the end because he is the subject of my question.
> I think Shaq might be the most *** player the NBA has ever seen.
> People always say... "Well... if I were that big."  Well, if you were
> that big you may not eb able to do a 1/4 of the things he does.  His
> agility at that size is astonishing.  I think at times that he is not
> trying, but call in the re-inforcements if he gets pissed off.
> However, why is it that Shaq gets no respect from a lot of people?

> -- regards,

> John

 
 
 

Best centers (since 1980) - and why Shaq gets little respect...

Post by Steve Jar » Fri, 03 May 2002 22:32:43

Quote:

> In the immortal words of Wilt himself "Nobody loves Goliath". The same
> people who bash Shaq and try to deny that he is the most *** player
> since Wilt would take him on their respective teams in a heartbeat if
> given the chance.

Of course they would. I don't know of anyone who doubts shaq's
effectiveness/***. That would be like denying that 20 is greater
than 10. But what people do question are how much credit he should get
for being so good. Shaq, more than any guy since Wilt, seems to be
*** strictly because of his -extraordinary- physical size and
strength. And that's saying something in a league that is iptso fatso
defined by the ungodly athleticism of its players.

Shaq is a freak among freaks. And so his god-given body gets the
credit, not 'him'...

 
 
 

Best centers (since 1980) - and why Shaq gets little respect...

Post by Dave McNull » Sat, 04 May 2002 00:51:29

it depends on who you ask as to who deserves respect. and although you may
disagree on who that is with others, it doesn't touch the question about
disrespect.

shaq, being from san antonio, would be loved there if he'd kept his thoughts
on drob quiet, or maybe even if he'd shared them in a less insulting way.

dave


Quote:


> >  It could be because of his own lack of respect for other people.

> He has paid only the utmost respect to people that deserve it like Phil
> Jackson and Hakeem Olajuwon.

> Dimitri

 
 
 

Best centers (since 1980) - and why Shaq gets little respect...

Post by D. Gerasimat » Sat, 04 May 2002 06:18:31


Quote:

>it depends on who you ask as to who deserves respect. and although you may
>disagree on who that is with others, it doesn't touch the question about
>disrespect.

>shaq, being from san antonio, would be loved there if he'd kept his thoughts
>on drob quiet, or maybe even if he'd shared them in a less insulting way.

He doesn't like David Robinson. Does he have to?

Dimitri

 
 
 

Best centers (since 1980) - and why Shaq gets little respect...

Post by Dave McNull » Sat, 04 May 2002 08:09:40

i'm just saying shaq would be liked in his hometown if he hadn't insulted a
san antonio hero.

it's a free country, we do what we want. but we can't choose the
consequences of our actions. it's back to the point made earlier in the
thread.

q  However, why is it that Shaq gets no respect from a lot of people?

a  It could be because of his own lack of respect for other people.

dave


Quote:


> >it depends on who you ask as to who deserves respect. and although you
may
> >disagree on who that is with others, it doesn't touch the question about
> >disrespect.

> >shaq, being from san antonio, would be loved there if he'd kept his
thoughts
> >on drob quiet, or maybe even if he'd shared them in a less insulting way.

> He doesn't like David Robinson. Does he have to?

> Dimitri

 
 
 

Best centers (since 1980) - and why Shaq gets little respect...

Post by D. Gerasimat » Sat, 04 May 2002 15:15:56


Quote:

>i'm just saying shaq would be liked in his hometown if he hadn't insulted a
>san antonio hero.

>it's a free country, we do what we want. but we can't choose the
>consequences of our actions. it's back to the point made earlier in the
>thread.

>q  However, why is it that Shaq gets no respect from a lot of people?

>a  It could be because of his own lack of respect for other people.

So "other people" is David Robinson?

Dimitri