Our-time != All-time

Our-time != All-time

Post by Ashwin Honk » Thu, 27 Feb 1992 16:19:21


What do the following facts have in common ?

* During 1980-88, Reagan was voted as 'one of the all-time great presidents'
  of the US.
* These days, Reagan is regarded as one of the worst ever.

* During 1980-88, Nancy Reagan and Maggie Thatcher made it to the '10 most
  admired women' list and were always near the top.
* Both of them are nowhere in that list today.

* Carl 'Billions and billions' Sagan was recently named the smartest person in
  America, above Norman Schwarzkopf (IQ 150+) and John Sununu (IQ 150+). Also,
  Madonna (IQ unknown) not only made that list but was ranked above Marilyn
  vos Savant, who has the highest measured IQ of any living person (200+) !

* West, Robertson, Russell, Chamberlain etc. are generally regarded as some of
  the 'all-time great' NBA players.
* Magic, Bird and Jordan are nominated to the 'all-time great' NBA team by many
  rsbp readers in 1992.

If you haven't gathered it yet, we always tend to confuse the 'famous' with the
great and sometimes the greats of our time with all-time greats. A few years
from now, we will perhaps find Hardaway, Robinson and Billy Owens making the
list and people will be asking, "How many rings does Bird have ?", "Do Magic or
Bird hold any NBA records ?","If Magic gave such great assists, how come
Stockton broke his record in a much shorter time ?" etc. just as some of us are
asking "How many rings does Wilt have ?" and "How come Robertson does not hold
the assists record ?" etc.

In short, we can't possibly name an all-time great team since we cannot account
for the changes in the league, the quality of opposition, number of teams,
rules, shooting accuracy etc. So let us not get into this meaningless exercise.

Ashwin [Warriors '91-'92: All-time great team :-)] Honkan

 
 
 

Our-time != All-time

Post by Greg Pa » Tue, 03 Mar 1992 20:47:44

Quote:

>What do the following facts have in common ?

>* During 1980-88, Reagan was voted as 'one of the all-time great presidents'
>  of the US.
>* These days, Reagan is regarded as one of the worst ever.

    It helps when you're the current president.  I dispute your source
and ask you to name it when claiming Reagan is regarded "one of the
worst ever".

Quote:
>* During 1980-88, Nancy Reagan and Maggie Thatcher made it to the '10 most
>  admired women' list and were always near the top.
>* Both of them are nowhere in that list today.

    Of course not, neither of them is currently in the middle of the
media spotlight.

Quote:
>* Carl 'Billions and billions' Sagan was recently named the smartest person in
>  America, above Norman Schwarzkopf (IQ 150+) and John Sununu (IQ 150+). Also,
>  Madonna (IQ unknown) not only made that list but was ranked above Marilyn
>  vos Savant, who has the highest measured IQ of any living person (200+) !

    Exactly who named him "smartest person in America"?  If you want to
take an opinion poll and contrast it with scientific analysis then I
can't even hope to wonder what you're trying to intelligently
communicate.

Quote:
>* West, Robertson, Russell, Chamberlain etc. are generally regarded as some of
>  the 'all-time great' NBA players.
>* Magic, Bird and Jordan are nominated to the 'all-time great' NBA team by many
>  rsbp readers in 1992.

    And 1991, and 1990, and 1989, and 1988, and 1987.... (do we see a
trend here?)...

Quote:
>If you haven't gathered it yet, we always tend to confuse the 'famous' with the
>great and sometimes the greats of our time with all-time greats. A few years
>from now, we will perhaps find Hardaway, Robinson and Billy Owens making the
>list and people will be asking, "How many rings does Bird have ?", "Do Magic or
>Bird hold any NBA records ?","If Magic gave such great assists, how come
>Stockton broke his record in a much shorter time ?" etc. just as some of us are
>asking "How many rings does Wilt have ?" and "How come Robertson does not hold
>the assists record ?" etc.

   While I think you've confused yourself enough already, let's see how
we can answer this.   You see to have brought up a valid point, yet
argue it with invalid data--Bird, Magic, and Jordan will be remembered
as all-time greats next year and and decade from now.   There are current
players who probably get more attention as being "great" than they will
when they have left game and history has had time to absorb them--Bird,
Magic, and Jordan are not among these players however.

Quote:
>In short, we can't possibly name an all-time great team since we cannot account
>for the changes in the league, the quality of opposition, number of teams,
>rules, shooting accuracy etc. So let us not get into this meaningless exercise.

>Ashwin [Warriors '91-'92: All-time great team :-)] Honkan

    Sure you can name an all-time great team.  Just don't try to use
statistics to prove it....

--
NEW ADDRESS!!!!!   (Take note thoust foul unbelievers!)

MSEE student, Insight technician  |     Triangle Fraternity
"Was our love too strong to die?  Were we just too weak to kill it?" -TheThe

 
 
 

Our-time != All-time

Post by Paul M Mwee » Wed, 04 Mar 1992 11:33:29

Great players of this era nad why (no sentimental reasons)

Kareem
     Has scored mo pts than any man eva.

M "The Great" J
         Five (six) scoring titles.

Magic
    Those assis (which stil stands)

.....and nobody else. Fortunately, in a more sober age, pipo will hav to
     justify why they declared anyone great.....

 
 
 

Our-time != All-time

Post by david a. weus » Wed, 04 Mar 1992 21:29:42


Quote:

>Great players of this era nad why (no sentimental reasons)

>Kareem
>     Has scored mo pts than any man eva.

>M "The Great" J
>         Five (six) scoring titles.

>Magic
>    Those assis (which stil stands)

>.....and nobody else. Fortunately, in a more sober age, pipo will hav to
>     justify why they declared anyone great.....

Ever hear of a guy named Bird?
 
 
 

Our-time != All-time

Post by Michael Wo » Thu, 05 Mar 1992 08:09:46



|> >
|> >Great players of this era nad why (no sentimental reasons)
|> >
|> >Kareem
|> >     Has scored mo pts than any man eva.
|> >
|> >M "The Great" J
|> >         Five (six) scoring titles.
|> >
|> >Magic
|> >    Those assis (which stil stands)
|> >
|> >.....and nobody else. Fortunately, in a more sober age, pipo will hav to
|> >     justify why they declared anyone great.....
|> >  
|> Ever hear of a guy named Bird?
|>

Bird sucks!!  He got so famous only because he is white.  I'm sure if Chris Mullin
played in Boston he would do even better than Bird.

Chainsaw

 
 
 

Our-time != All-time

Post by Jerray W » Thu, 05 Mar 1992 08:54:02

Quote:

>Bird sucks!!  He got so famous only because he is white.  I'm sure if Chris Mullin
>played in Boston he would do even better than Bird.

>Chainsaw

In one of my classes, I was writing about the lessening of America's IQ.  I
need go no further than what's posted above.  You know, Rodman said that
about Bird once, and then Bird, the overrated player scored like 35 points
on him enroute to beating Detroit and going to the finals...
 
 
 

Our-time != All-time

Post by Michael Wo » Thu, 05 Mar 1992 09:25:28


|> >
|> >Bird sucks!!  He got so famous only because he is white.  I'm sure if Chris Mullin
|> >played in Boston he would do even better than Bird.
|> >
|> >Chainsaw
|>
|> In one of my classes, I was writing about the lessening of America's IQ.  I
|> need go no further than what's posted above.  You know, Rodman said that
|> about Bird once, and then Bird, the overrated player scored like 35 points
|> on him enroute to beating Detroit and going to the finals...
|>

...and lost to Detroit.  The fact is Bird SUCKS and PEOPLE/DICKHEADS with really LESSER IQ
like YOU would not admit it.

Be sure to include YOURSELF as an example about the lessening of America's IQ (this will
definitely improve your grade, heck, I'm sure the grader would appreciate your honesty,
that probably will be one of the only redeeming feature of your paper).  Good Luck
with your paper, you will need it.  Maybe you will pass that class afterall.

                                                                Chainsaw

 
 
 

Our-time != All-time

Post by Ashwin Honk » Thu, 05 Mar 1992 15:33:15

In a response to my article, Greg Paul writes:

Quote:

>>What do the following facts have in common ?

>>* During 1980-88, Reagan was voted as 'one of the all-time great presidents'
>>  of the US.
>>* These days, Reagan is regarded as one of the worst ever.

>    It helps when you're the current president.  I dispute your source
>and ask you to name it when claiming Reagan is regarded "one of the
>worst ever".

There, you said it. I was making the same point that the persons currently in
the limelight are more likely to be treated as larger-than-life, all-time-great
etc. irrespective of their real worth.

As far as naming my sources is concerned, pl. realize that a posting on rsbp
is not a legal document. Surveys of this kind are held practically daily and
appear in a range of newspapers and magazines all the way from National
Enquirer to New York Times. I was summarizing the results of some that I have
read in the last few months. Since this is not a newsgroup on US politics, I
don't want to get into a discussion on this topic.

Quote:
>>* During 1980-88, Nancy Reagan and Maggie Thatcher made it to the '10 most
>>  admired women' list and were always near the top.
>>* Both of them are nowhere in that list today.

>    Of course not, neither of them is currently in the middle of the
>media spotlight.

More of the same. You are making the same point as I am, except that you think
you are contradicting me.

Quote:
>>* Carl 'Billions and billions' Sagan was recently named the smartest person in
>>  America, above Norman Schwarzkopf (IQ 150+) and John Sununu (IQ 150+). Also,
>>  Madonna (IQ unknown) not only made that list but was ranked above Marilyn
>>  vos Savant, who has the highest measured IQ of any living person (200+) !

>    Exactly who named him "smartest person in America"?  If you want to
>take an opinion poll and contrast it with scientific analysis then I

Again, you are forgetting that I am not presenting this as a thesis for a
doctorate or as evidence for a lawsuit. These are not my own opinions but those
from a survey the results of which were published in both the SF Chronicle and
the 'Parade' magazine (Sunday supplement to many newspapers) in January '92.

Quote:
>can't even hope to wonder what you're trying to intelligently communicate.

 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The pot calling the kettle black ? Are you communicating very clearly here ?

Quote:
>>* West, Robertson, Russell, Chamberlain etc. are generally regarded as some
>>  of the 'all-time great' NBA players.
>>* Magic, Bird and Jordan are nominated to the 'all-time great' NBA team by
>>  many rsbp readers in 1992.

>    And 1991, and 1990, and 1989, and 1988, and 1987.... (do we see a
>trend here?)...

My point is that they are all great and since it is not possible to compare
today's greats with yesterday's greats, let's just leave it at that, instead
of coming up with the top 5 or so. Fair enough ?

Quote:
>> *** stuff deleted ***

>   While I think you've confused yourself enough already, let's see how

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Quote:
>we can answer this.   You see to have brought up a valid point, yet

                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The pot calling the kettle black, contd. Gentle readers, who's confused here ?

Quote:
>> *** stuff deleted ***
>>In short, we can't possibly name an all-time great team since we cannot
>>account for the changes in the league, the quality of opposition, number of
>>teams, rules, shooting accuracy etc.
>> *** stuff deleted ***
>    Sure you can name an all-time great team.  Just don't try to use
>statistics to prove it....

Statistics (n.): a branch of math. dealing with the collection, analysis,
interpretattion and presentation of masses of numerical data; a collection of
quantitative data

I don't see any numerical data in my posting. Perhaps you were responding to
some other article ? I was trying to show how we get carried away by what's
in vogue today and forget that something else may be in vogue tomorrow. Amen.

Ashwin [That's all on this topic] Honkan

 
 
 

Our-time != All-time

Post by david a. weus » Thu, 05 Mar 1992 21:25:43

Quote:



>|> >
>|> >Great players of this era nad why (no sentimental reasons)
>|> >
>|> >Kareem
>|> >     Has scored mo pts than any man eva.
>|> >
>|> >M "The Great" J
>|> >         Five (six) scoring titles.
>|> >
>|> >Magic
>|> >    Those assis (which stil stands)
>|> >
>|> >.....and nobody else. Fortunately, in a more sober age, pipo will hav to
>|> >     justify why they declared anyone great.....
>|> >  
>|> Ever hear of a guy named Bird?
>|>

>Bird sucks!!  He got so famous only because he is white.  I'm sure if Chris Mullin
>played in Boston he would do even better than Bird.

>Chainsaw

That comment is not even worth responding to.
 
 
 

Our-time != All-time

Post by Jerray W » Fri, 06 Mar 1992 09:43:10

Quote:

>|> >
>|> >Bird sucks!!  He got so famous only because he is white.  I'm sure if Chris Mullin

>...and lost to Detroit.  The fact is Bird SUCKS and PEOPLE/DICKHEADS with really LESSER IQ
>like YOU would not admit it.

>Be sure to include YOURSELF as an example about the lessening of America's IQ (this will
>definitely improve your grade, heck, I'm sure the grader would appreciate your honesty,
>that probably will be one of the only redeeming feature of your paper).  Good Luck
>with your paper, you will need it.  Maybe you will pass that class afterall.

Hmmm, my fault on this one.  After I wrote the reply to your original post,
I got quite a bit of mail telling me that I shouldn't have said anything at
all.  Quotes from the mail, "why respond to an obvious loser who knows
nothing about basketball and just wants to get attention?"  Understood.
 
 
 

Our-time != All-time

Post by Robert J. Skrobo » Sun, 08 Mar 1992 08:53:29

Quote:



>|> >
>|> >Bird sucks!!  He got so famous only because he is white.  I'm sure if Chris Mullin
>|> >played in Boston he would do even better than Bird.
>|> >
>|> >Chainsaw
>|>
>|> In one of my classes, I was writing about the lessening of America's IQ.  I
>|> need go no further than what's posted above.  You know, Rodman said that
>|> about Bird once, and then Bird, the overrated player scored like 35 points
>|> on him enroute to beating Detroit and going to the finals...
>|>

>...and lost to Detroit.  The fact is Bird SUCKS and PEOPLE/DICKHEADS with really LESSER IQ
>like YOU would not admit it.

>Be sure to include YOURSELF as an example about the lessening of America's IQ (this will
>definitely improve your grade, heck, I'm sure the grader would appreciate your honesty,
>that probably will be one of the only redeeming feature of your paper).  Good Luck
>with your paper, you will need it.  Maybe you will pass that class afterall.

>                                                            Chainsaw

Take a look at the stats over the last 12 years.
Take a look at Boston in '78'79 and Boston in '79'80 (I have, in depth).
There were very few differences between those two teams. Most of the
minutes distribution was similiar between the two years, except for
the addition of Bird. They won 30 more games with Bird.

Look over the rest of the decade, and see what happened when
other teams added superstars...Even Chicago, pre/post Jordan wasn't
even close...I think they were plus 10-15 wins..

Of course, this post assumes that you actually give a shit about this
and might have simply been asserting that Bird is merely a good player,
and not the all time great that most would say he is...

If not, then Michael "Chainsaw" Wong, I don't know what this opinion says
about your IQ, but it sure says you don't know shit about basketball..
Rodman's one of my favorite players (note Ann Arbor location), and
he was just as wrong as you are...Difference is, he had the class
to admit it...
                        Rob
--
-----------------------------------------------------
Rob Skrobola      Institutional File Server Project
Normal Disclaimer: I speak only for myself
-----------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Our-time != All-time

Post by 00kmrober.. » Wed, 11 Mar 1992 06:46:01

Quote:



> |> >
> |> >Great players of this era nad why (no sentimental reasons)
> |> >
> |> >Kareem
> |> >     Has scored mo pts than any man eva.
> |> >
> |> >M "The Great" J
> |> >         Five (six) scoring titles.
> |> >
> |> >Magic
> |> >    Those assis (which stil stands)
> |> >
> |> >.....and nobody else. Fortunately, in a more sober age, pipo will hav to
> |> >     justify why they declared anyone great.....
> |> >  
> |> Ever hear of a guy named Bird?
> |>

> Bird sucks!!  He got so famous only because he is white.  I'm sure if Chris Mullin
> played in Boston he would do even better than Bird.

> Chainsaw

Did you ever see Bird in his prime?  He could kill Mullin one-on-one, or
in a team game.  Get real!
Mike
 
 
 

Our-time != All-time

Post by band » Wed, 11 Mar 1992 23:22:40


Quote:




> >|> >
> >|> >Bird sucks!!  He got so famous only because he is white.  I'm sure if Chris Mullin
> >|> >played in Boston he would do even better than Bird.
> >|> >
> >|> >Chainsaw
> >|>
> >|>Yeah sure, and the only reason Jordan is so good is because he's black.

     You're a jack-ass.  When you get a clue on basketball, life, or anything,
     go  ahead and post something.  But until then, shut the hell up.
     ---Bando