Strat-o-Matic rears its ugly head

Strat-o-Matic rears its ugly head

Post by cs22.. » Thu, 22 Feb 1990 11:01:17


Sorry to interrupt this stream of consciousness with what many baseball

fans consider worthless drek (fantasy ball), but I was just curious to

see what the following is on a national net such as this:

        Who out there plays Strat-o-Matic baseball ?

        If so, which version (basic, advanced, dippy balk rules, etc) ?

I'll shut up now and let real baseball take over.

                                        Joe Sterbenc
                                        U. of Deon Thomas

 
 
 

Strat-o-Matic rears its ugly head

Post by Marc Sabatel » Fri, 23 Feb 1990 02:04:20

Quote:
>    Who out there plays Strat-o-Matic baseball ?

I do!

Quote:
>    If so, which version (basic, advanced, dippy balk rules, etc) ?

"Super-Advanced", including "dippy balk rules".  If you see this years cards,
you'll note that balks have gone down considerable - ie, most pitcher have ~4
rating, very few over 10 - as opposed to last year, when half of some staffs
were rated at 17.  At least the "dippy" balk rules generate balks mainly when
there is an actual fast runner on base trying to get a lead, as in real life.
It just seems to me the percentages might still be a little high; then again,
so far there has been only 1 balk in 6 games, so maybe not.

In general, though, I think the new steal system is superb.  It actually
models the high percentage low total guys (ie, 10 out of 11) very well, without
taking away your ability to call the SB as some infamous games (APBA) do.

Also, this year they have added some new features over last year, most
importantly new fielding charts, and new hit&run and bunting charts.  These
model a wider variety of situations, including "single and an error" on the
fielding charts (which was previously impossible!) pitcher effects on hit and
run plays, and bunts in which the fielder has the option of trying to gun the
runner, or taking the sure out.  They've even added some "rare plays", although
they are pretty limited and rather lame, in my opinion.  Plus they've updated
the ballpark effects chart to include weather effects (good, average, and poor
conditions; also spring/fall vs. summer), and added a few gratuitous rules
(using players out of position, warmup for relievers, extra cutoff plays,
bringing in corners only, sensitivity to which fielders are responsible for
holding the runner on when determining which ground balls slip through the
hole, etc).

By the way, someone had asked before how do you get a "5" defensively - the
answer is, play way out of position.

And Jerome Walton, a rookie, is rated "1" in center field.  One of the only
times I've seen that happen.  His arm is rated "+1", which is probably a pretty
accurate assesment.

Marc

 
 
 

Strat-o-Matic rears its ugly head

Post by David Reed Don » Fri, 23 Feb 1990 07:11:51

Quote:

>Sorry to interrupt this stream of consciousness with what many baseball

>fans consider worthless drek (fantasy ball), but I was just curious to

>see what the following is on a national net such as this:

>    Who out there plays Strat-o-Matic baseball ?

>    If so, which version (basic, advanced, dippy balk rules, etc) ?

>I'll shut up now and let real baseball take over.

>                                    Joe Sterbenc
>                                    U. of Deon Thomas

Its not so bad to talk about SOM! That is what they make the 'n' (or even
'k') key for.
I play SOM a lot, and I have gotten a few of my friends at college hooked on
it as well. I never play the basic game, but I also do not play the new
balk-type rules, not to mention the morass of new rules that came out with the
new cards...

- DaveD

--
- A member of the crack staff of Lopata 407...

 
 
 

Strat-o-Matic rears its ugly head

Post by John Fede » Sat, 24 Feb 1990 02:00:50

A quick question for SOM players.  My league is switching
from the basic game to the advanced, and my set of rules
doesn't seem to address the pitchers' invidual hold ratings.
I understand how to get the jump, etc, but the hold ratings,
especially ones listed as a + number don't seem to make
any sense.  Why, for instance, would you hold a runner
if the pitcher's hold was a +6.  Any help anyone can
give is appreciated.

John Fedele

 
 
 

Strat-o-Matic rears its ugly head

Post by Dave Mast » Sat, 24 Feb 1990 02:52:04


Quote:
>best known tabletop baseball game.  However, a few months ago, one of my
>friends discovered PURSUIT OF THE PENNANT, a game which truly is the
>cream of the crop as far as baseball game simulations.  It takes
>everything into account; from ballpark effects and weather conditions to
>pitcher's fatigue and freak plays.  It is truly amazing!  To top it all
>off, PTP also has a computerized version which is a lot cheaper than
>SOM's and it has a player/stadium/league creation program that allows
>the user to create any player, ballpark, etc. that he/she desires.  It
>even takes the "era" (not E.R.A.) under consideration (i.e. a batter who
>hit 20 HR's in 1987 -live ball era- will probably hit less in a
>pitcher's year, such as 1988).  In addition, the program has a great
>stat-keeping section that ranks players and teams in commmon stats such
>as AVG, HR, RBI,SB, and not-so-common stats such as total avg, isolated
>power, batting vs. LHP & RHP, etc. (same goes for pitching, which
>includes stats like hits & walks/ 9 innings)

>Does anybody out there know about PTP?  Post your comments and/or send
>me a private!

I bought the '88 version of the Pursuit the Pennant board game.  Overall I'd
say its the best of the board games that I've played.  That includes MANY years
of S-O-M, only one game of APBA, one game of SI (can't remember the name, but
its the one where you flip cards rather than roll dice), and 100's of games of
SI-Avalon Hill's All-Star or All-time All-Star Baseball.

The game does however take longer to play due to the number of plays that
require multiple rolls and frequent referals to player and ballpark ratings.
But having such things as a players running rating may affect his chance of     beating
out a slow roller or, if he's a snail, being forced at second on a slow roller
rather than advancing makes it worth putting up with.  The ballpark effects and
handling of HR's off the pitchers card is really clever and colorful with the
outfield wall inserts for each team.

Main Problem:
1) For the 80 or so games I've played the offense has been too great.  About
0.5-1 run a game to much and too many homers.  Could be to too small a sample
but I doubt it.  More probably due to being able to choose the right player for
the right situation moreso than in real baseball. Ex: "lets see, he has the Mets
with Dwight Gooden on the mound who is a righty but righty hitters hit 40 pts
higher than lefties do against him. I've got a righty who hit 20 pts higher
against righties even though it was only in 50 AB, I'll start him."  This leads
to my complaint against all these ultra-statistical games:

2) Using actual single year lefty-righty stats.  Too many players show a platoon
disadvantage due to the small statistical sample of 0-a few hundred AB's.
Therefore you end up benching HoJo  and Van Slyke vs lefties and stacking the
lineup against lefty Sid Fernandez with lefties.a  Maybe more "realistic" in
the context of that season but less like real life managing.

But I digress.

I also have the demo version of the PtP computer game and may send for the full
game.  The main advantages are the statistics package, plays much faster, and
player/team creation is possible.  It seems to lose a few things though based
on my limited experience with the Demo.  Less player rating grades, no IF
throwing ratings, HR probabilities no longer affected by pull/spray rating, no
weather effects, possibly no wild plays.  Also the only play option is to manage
both teams, ie no computer vs human or computer vs computer mode. Computer vs
computer superfast play mode is an option in "Micro-League Baseball" which allows
you to play games in about 5 minutes, good for getting rid of boring games in a
long season.  It makes the otherwise incredibly slow and marginal MLB game
fair though in no way comparable to SOM or PtP.

Run on much to long. Bye!

Dave Masten

 
 
 

Strat-o-Matic rears its ugly head

Post by Ronald F Gru » Fri, 23 Feb 1990 09:42:00


Quote:

>Its not so bad to talk about SOM! That is what they make the 'n' (or
>even 'k') key for.  I play SOM a lot, and I have gotten a few of my
>friends at college hooked on it as well. I never play the basic game,
>but I also do not play the new balk-type rules, not to mention the
>morass of new rules that came out with the new cards...
> - DaveD

I have been a Strat-O-Matic player for a long time... It is perhaps the
best known tabletop baseball game.  However, a few months ago, one of my
friends discovered PURSUIT OF THE PENNANT, a game which truly is the
cream of the crop as far as baseball game simulations.  It takes
everything into account; from ballpark effects and weather conditions to
pitcher's fatigue and freak plays.  It is truly amazing!  To top it all
off, PTP also has a computerized version which is a lot cheaper than
SOM's and it has a player/stadium/league creation program that allows
the user to create any player, ballpark, etc. that he/she desires.  It
even takes the "era" (not E.R.A.) under consideration (i.e. a batter who
hit 20 HR's in 1987 -live ball era- will probably hit less in a
pitcher's year, such as 1988).  In addition, the program has a great
stat-keeping section that ranks players and teams in commmon stats such
as AVG, HR, RBI,SB, and not-so-common stats such as total avg, isolated
power, batting vs. LHP & RHP, etc. (same goes for pitching, which
includes stats like hits & walks/ 9 innings)

Does anybody out there know about PTP?  Post your comments and/or send
me a private!

                                * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                                *  R O N A L D   G R U I A  *
                                *                           *


                                * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Strat-o-Matic rears its ugly head

Post by Walter Gu » Sat, 24 Feb 1990 11:57:21

Quote:

>A quick question for SOM players.  My league is switching
>from the basic game to the advanced, and my set of rules
>doesn't seem to address the pitchers' invidual hold ratings.
>I understand how to get the jump, etc, but the hold ratings,
>especially ones listed as a + number don't seem to make
>any sense.  Why, for instance, would you hold a runner
>if the pitcher's hold was a +6.  Any help anyone can
>give is appreciated.

>John Fedele

As I undersatand it, the hold rating is more a measure of how quick the
pitcher motion is (ie. it is adding in even if the player is not being
held).  For example, with this years cards Doc Goden is a +9!!!  This means
that when he's on the mound you better hold everybody (-6), and have a catcher
with a -3 arm just to break even.  If you don't hold the runner, then he is
at +9 (pitcher) -3 (catcher arm) = +6 to steal.

New York fans, was Gooden really this bad at holding runners last year?  He
has gone from about a (-3) hold two years ago, to +3 or so last year, to
+9 this year.  I don't think I have ever seen a worse hold rating in SOM.
No matter how good he pitches this alone could keep him off my team.

Walter
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walter Gude          |         This  
Washington University|               space

 
 
 

Strat-o-Matic rears its ugly head

Post by NYC » Sun, 25 Feb 1990 00:30:39

Quote:

>New York fans, was Gooden really this bad at holding runners last year?  He
>has gone from about a (-3) hold two years ago, to +3 or so last year, to
>+9 this year.  I don't think I have ever seen a worse hold rating in SOM.
>No matter how good he pitches this alone could keep him off my team.

The answer is a good deal more complicated than that.  His first few years
people were so busy being blown away by him they didn't realize his
delivery was tailor-made for base stealers, especially that high leg kick
he gets the power from.  As they began to take advantage of him, Mets
management started tinkering with his delivery, reducing the kick, using
that infamous slide step, mucking around with his release point.  The
end result was that he was no longer so dominating but did keep Kevin
Bass (his rabbit Nemesis) anchored at first.  Even while the fans and
the press grumbled about Doc's resulting vulnerability, Mets management
kept mum.  Until, that is, early last season when they introduced a
bizarrely high set point that did nothing to intimidate base runners,
but probably put enough stress on Doc's shoulder to take him out just
when the Pets had opened one eye and were threatening to rise out of
their customary slumber.

Magnanimously, management conceded that maybe they should forget about
those pesky base runners in the future and let Doc concentrate on putting
runners out at home plate and not behind his back.  Fans and press didn't
for one second resist the temptation to scream "I told you so!".  Of course,
I'm new enough to the game to take irrational and ignorant stands, but
I must ask "Who cares about the blasted stolen bases if the runners don't
make it home?  And aren't you more likely to keep them from getting
there if you take care of the guys at the plate?"

BTW, has anyone ever stolen second, third and home in the same inning?
--
Charles B. Francois                        cbf&gotham.East.Sun.COM

 
 
 

Strat-o-Matic rears its ugly head

Post by cs22.. » Sun, 25 Feb 1990 11:17:46

Quote:
>>A quick question for SOM players.  My league is switching
>>from the basic game to the advanced, and my set of rules
>>doesn't seem to address the pitchers' invidual hold ratings.
>>I understand how to get the jump, etc, but the hold ratings,
>>especially ones listed as a + number don't seem to make
>>any sense.  Why, for instance, would you hold a runner
>>if the pitcher's hold was a +6.  Any help anyone can
>>give is appreciated.

>>John Fedele
>As I undersatand it, the hold rating is more a measure of how quick the
>pitcher motion is (ie. it is adding in even if the player is not being
>held).  For example, with this years cards Doc Goden is a +9!!!  This means
>that when he's on the mound you better hold everybody (-6), and have a catcher
>with a -3 arm just to break even.  If you don't hold the runner, then he is
>at +9 (pitcher) -3 (catcher arm) = +6 to steal.

That's not how pitcher's hold works.  The pitcher's rating is equivalent
to the catcher's arm; it's there whether you hold on the runner or not.

Point 2:  The total effect of the pitcher's and catcher's arms (NOT including
hold) cannot exceed +5 or -5.  Therefore, you might as well let LaValliere
(+2) catch Doc, as +11=+5.  Even Santiago only gives you a +5.

Point3:   Advanced stealing hold doesn't cut anywhere near six (don't I
wish).  Here's what happens: suppose you have Joe Schmoe who's rating is

                        2-5/-  *(16-12)

with +0 pitcher and catcher.  Joe wants to steal.  Since he has an asterisk,
if he isn't held he can steal at a 16.  Only an idiot would allow that, so
the other team holds him on.  CATCHER'S RANGE HAS NO IMPACT ON HOLDING THE
RUNNER IN SUPPLEMENTARY STEALING.  He now can roll for a good lead.  If he
gets it (2 to 5 in this case), he MUST steal at two off his first rating --
in other words, 14.  If he misses the lead, then he does not have to steal.
He can still go, but now you take four off his second rating -- i.e., 8.

These all concern stealing second base only.  Third and home are different.
Isn't supp. stealing fun?  (actually, it beats hell out of the old method
once you get used to it -- it just takes a while).Enjoy!

                                                Joe Sterbenc
                                                U of Deon Thomas

 
 
 

Strat-o-Matic rears its ugly head

Post by CMSC 455/01011; Dr. Lewist » Thu, 01 Mar 1990 02:58:21

Quote:

>    Who out there plays Strat-o-Matic baseball ?
...
>I'll shut up now and let real baseball take over.

At least my SOM season will begin on schedule.  I can't wait until next
year's new rule involving the split deck:

   Play this season 1-1
   Lockout          2-20

Couldn't resist.

 
 
 

Strat-o-Matic rears its ugly head

Post by Benjamin A. Goldsmi » Thu, 01 Mar 1990 08:53:27

Ive found a great way to deal with off-season boredom...play PTP.

I've had lots of fun with Pursue the Pennant.  Right now, I am running
a play-by-email league (The National Internet League - NIL) that consists
of seven teams.  We've played a fair amount of games so far, and try to
play about four a week (too many rainouts...).

If anyone wants a copy of our weekly newsletter, to join a waiting list
in case any of the General Managers drop out, or to express interest
in participating in a league next semester, e-mail me.

-Ben Goldsmith
 Commissioner of the NIL
 GM of the California Ceratopsians

 
 
 

Strat-o-Matic rears its ugly head

Post by David Joseph Grabin » Fri, 09 Mar 1990 08:07:17


Quote:
>BTW, has anyone ever stolen second, third and home in the same inning?

Devon White did it in a game last August.

--
My name is David Joseph Grabiner.

My name is called David.
I am the person solely responsible for these opinions.