Mariano's updated post-season ERA

Mariano's updated post-season ERA

Post by Tim 9-2 » Wed, 07 Nov 2001 18:25:20


Anyone have it?  It was 0.7.  

Mariano giving up 2 runs is like Roger Clemens belting a homer to
center.

Tim 9-23

 
 
 

Mariano's updated post-season ERA

Post by Harnish2 » Wed, 07 Nov 2001 23:09:40

Quote:
>Anyone have it?  It was 0.7.  

Unfortunately, I think all the runs he gave up were unearned. So his ERA
actually went down. I think runs should be earned if the pitcher makes the
error.

steve

 
 
 

Mariano's updated post-season ERA

Post by Harnish2 » Wed, 07 Nov 2001 23:15:29

Quote:
>Unfortunately, I think all the runs he gave up were unearned. So his ERA
>actually went down. I think runs should be earned if the pitcher makes the
>error.

Just checked the boxscore- only one run was unearned.

steve

 
 
 

Mariano's updated post-season ERA

Post by Christoph Gaa » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 01:48:23

Quote:
>Mariano giving up 2 runs is like Roger Clemens belting a homer to
>center.

Not really. Rivera gave up 2+ runs five times this year. I don't think Clemens
had that many homers to center. :)
 
 
 

Mariano's updated post-season ERA

Post by David Marshal » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 03:26:09

Rivera's current postseason stats:
http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_player_postseason.
jsp?playerID=121250&statType=2

His overall postseason ERA is now 0.91



Quote:
> >Unfortunately, I think all the runs he gave up were unearned. So his ERA
> >actually went down. I think runs should be earned if the pitcher makes the
> >error.

> Just checked the boxscore- only one run was unearned.

> steve

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Mariano's updated post-season ERA

Post by James Ka » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 04:10:06


Quote:
 writes:
>>Unfortunately, I think all the runs he gave up were unearned. So his ERA
>>actually went down. I think runs should be earned if the pitcher makes the
>>error.
>Just checked the boxscore- only one run was unearned.

Hmm, the one I saw had both earned.  If he gets the runner at 2nd
on the throw, there's a runner on 1st, one out.  Then you had
Bell's bunt, Womack's double, an HBP, and a single.  

So there are two questions:  Does the scorer presume Rivera's throw
gets the guy at 2nd?  He must, since there was no advance, so otherewise
it wouldn't be called an error.  And does he presume Bell's bunt is
unsuccessful (the lead runner is out)?  If the answer is yes, then
without the error there would have been bases loaded, two out,
no runs in when Gonzalez singled.  (Of course, the infield would
not have been in, and Gonzalez's "single" might have been caught,
but that's not a consideration for scoring).  That would mean only
one earned run, I wold think.  So what does the scorer presume about
Bell's bunt in figuring that there both runs are earned?  Or was
there a mistake in the box score that I saw?

--
Jim
New York, NY
(Please remove "nospam." to get my e-mail address)
http://www.panix.com/~kahn

 
 
 

Mariano's updated post-season ERA

Post by Mark Wolv » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 04:16:09

Quote:

> Anyone have it?  It was 0.7.  

> Mariano giving up 2 runs is like Roger Clemens belting a homer to
> center.

> Tim 9-23

That made me curious, so I ran the numbers real quick-like...

Thru the 2001 World Series: ERA balloons to 1.667 (from 1.306).

Thru the 2001 Post Season: ERA again, ballooning to 0.917 from (0.747).

As much I still don't like the Yanks, he's a helluva post season pitcher.

 
 
 

Mariano's updated post-season ERA

Post by Samso » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 05:17:09


Quote:

> >Unfortunately, I think all the runs he gave up were unearned. So his
> >ERA actually went down. I think runs should be earned if the pitcher
> >makes the error.

> Just checked the boxscore- only one run was unearned.

CNNSI, Sportsline, ESPN and USAToday all say both runs were
earned. MLB.com says only one was earned. I suppose MLB has
the last word, but I don't know what to make of the ruling.
The runner who advanced on the error was put out at third
on the next play, and you can't reconstruct the inning, since
it was not (and would not have been) over when the winning run
scored. The only provision I can find that supports MLB's
scoring is the one about giving the pitcher the benefit of
the doubt.

Anyway, Rivera's postseason ERA is either 0.91 or 0.80,
depending on how you like to score these things. (I still
think pitcher's errors should count like wild pitches).

 
 
 

Mariano's updated post-season ERA

Post by Perry Sailo » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 06:19:09

Quote:



> > >Unfortunately, I think all the runs he gave up were unearned. So his
> > >ERA actually went down. I think runs should be earned if the pitcher
> > >makes the error.

> > Just checked the boxscore- only one run was unearned.

> CNNSI, Sportsline, ESPN and USAToday all say both runs were
> earned. MLB.com says only one was earned. I suppose MLB has
> the last word, but I don't know what to make of the ruling.
> The runner who advanced on the error was put out at third
> on the next play, and you can't reconstruct the inning, since
> it was not (and would not have been) over when the winning run
> scored. The only provision I can find that supports MLB's
> scoring is the one about giving the pitcher the benefit of
> the doubt.

Here's how I would reconstruct the inning without the error:
single
force out, runner at 1st, one out
force out, runner at 1st, two out
double, 2nd and 3rd, two out
single, 2 runs score, game over.

So I would make both runs earned.  The only way I could see to give Rivera
the benefit of the doubt for earned run purposes is to say that only one
run would score on Gonzalez' hit, because clearly after Womack's double
you'd have had 2nd and 3rd with two out, if there had been no error in the
inning.
Perry

 
 
 

Mariano's updated post-season ERA

Post by Vinay Kuma » Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:28:34

: Here's how I would reconstruct the inning without the error:
: single
: force out, runner at 1st, one out
: force out, runner at 1st, two out
: double, 2nd and 3rd, two out
: single, 2 runs score, game over.

You left out Counsell's HBP -- not that it makes much difference.

: So I would make both runs earned.  The only way I could see to give
: Rivera the benefit of the doubt for earned run purposes is to say
: that only one run would score on Gonzalez' hit, because clearly
: after Womack's double you'd have had 2nd and 3rd with two out, if
: there had been no error in the inning.

Right, I think that's the difference.  And even though the bases would
still be loaded with two outs, I guess they can't call that other run
earned.  I don't know if the rules clarify this situation.

--
/---------------------------------------------------------------\
| Vinay Kumar                                                   |

\---------------------------------------------------------------/

 
 
 

Mariano's updated post-season ERA

Post by Maaafsa » Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:32:10

Quote:
>Subject: Re: Mariano's updated post-season ERA

>And even though the bases would
>still be loaded with two outs, I guess they can't call that other run
>earned.  I don't know if the rules clarify this situation.

I've been meaning to ask about this.  I read that both runs were earned off
Rivera.  But, strictly by accounting, isn't the scorer limited to assuming that
one run scores on Gonzalez's hit, because that's what actually happened?  (I
know that only one run was required to end the game, and that two might have
scored otherwise, but isn't the logic similar to calling the remaining three
runners "LOB"?)

From the tone of your post, I'm inferring that perhaps Rivera has been charged
with only one earned run?

 
 
 

Mariano's updated post-season ERA

Post by Vinay Kuma » Sat, 01 Dec 2001 04:01:42

: >Subject: Re: Mariano's updated post-season ERA

: >And even though the bases would still be loaded with two outs, I
: >guess they can't call that other run earned.  I don't know if the
: >rules clarify this situation.

: I've been meaning to ask about this.  I read that both runs were
: earned off Rivera.  But, strictly by accounting, isn't the scorer
: limited to assuming that one run scores on Gonzalez's hit, because
: that's what actually happened?  (I know that only one run was
: required to end the game, and that two might have scored otherwise,
: but isn't the logic similar to calling the remaining three runners
: "LOB"?)

: From the tone of your post, I'm inferring that perhaps Rivera has
: been charged with only one earned run?

I don't remember anymore what happened or what I was trying to say in
my post.  :)  But espn.com says that Rivera was charged with two
earned runs in that last game:

http://baseball.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5400

--
/---------------------------------------------------------------\
| Vinay Kumar                                                   |

\---------------------------------------------------------------/