REPOST: Meeks' double-standard exposed!

REPOST: Meeks' double-standard exposed!

Post by air_jud.. » Wed, 17 Mar 1999 04:00:00


Got to make sure Dave sees this.  Here is repost #1.
*********************************



Quote:

> > > Something Spoon, Iverson, Tim Thomas, etc... haven't seemed to be able
> > > to do...

> >          Or Antoine Walker.  Chris Webber HAS been to the playoff.

> >   You are contradicting your earlier Walker > Webber stance.  Fancy that.

> >          Give Dave enough rope (or "data points") and he'll ***himself.

> Ahh.. but see, here is how you and I differ...  Your ego won't let you admit
> when you are wrong...

     Judden freely admits when Judden is wrong.  The last time that
     happened (1976), Judden humbly admitted the error in Judden's way.

Quote:
> I freely admit that at this point, I'd rather have Webber.

  Oh really?  You used specific "data points" to support Walker over Webber.
Let's look at those again:

____________________________________________________________________
Re: the ten best centers ever

Forum:      rec.sport.basketball.pro
Posted on:  1998/07/22

Because, your strawman argument of 'Dave's all stats' has never been true.
Stats are the one factual view of the world we have.  It's a very good and
strong data point for analysis.  But, that's all it is.  I prefer Walker
at this point because:

        o) He is more versatile.  He regularly has played three positions for
                the Celtics.
        o) He is more of a leader.
        o) He is (thus far) much less of a headcase/problem child.  Chrissy
                has whined and moaned everywhere he's gone
        o) He is more durable.  Chrissy has been injury prone.
        o) He is younger with more upside.  I think we've seen all of
                what Webber has to offer.  While quite good, Walker has
                more potential.
____________________________________________________________________

Now, is Webber suddenly more versatile?  Can he play more positions than
Walker?  Nope. Is Webber more of a leader?  Nope.  Webber said he doesn't
even WANT to be in Sacramento. Is Webber less of a headcase/problem child?
Has his whining and moaning ceased?  Nope.  See above. Has Webber, in the
course of 5 weeks, completely overcome his "injury prone" reputation?  Can 21
games (or ~5% of his career) overcome 5 seasons of developing an "injury
prone" rep?  Nope. Has Walker suddenly aged drastically and surpassed Webber
in age?  Nope. Has Walker's potential suddenly dried up in 5 weeks?
Obviously not, because in your response (to which Judden is now responding)
you say, "Walker has tons of talent"...present tense.  D'OH!

Dave, your handpicked "data points" are not helping your cause.  Please do
not lie to us and use a stats/Tendex argument, because Webber's Tendex was
clearly better back when your criteria was selected; and when we normalized
the numbers on a per-48 that you gave Mikkadonna in that thread, Webber had
better numbers.  Please do not use this new argument "playoff appearances" as
an excuse either.  This data (playoff games) hasn't changed since your July
22, 1998 post You rejected these "data points" and settled on the ones listed
above, when you chose Walker over Webber.

Don't claim you "changed your mind", because you didn't.  You didn't change
your mind on the data points that you used to make your judgement.  You
changed the data points, themselves.  You changed the criteria.  You used a
double-standard.

You claim Judden uses one on the Iverson/ballhog points issue, but Judden
cited a post from 1-1/2 years ago using the same standard Judden is now
citing (Ballhog Points Exception).  And 1-1/2 years ago, Iverson didn't
qualify for the Ballhog Points Exception (Sixers had more scoring threats,
even if they were worse overall players -- Coleman, Stackhouse, Jackson), and
consequently, Iverson's ballhog points were below 1.77.  Judden uses no
double-standard. Judden is citing an established postulate.  You have created
new criteria as you go, to try and justify your change of prefernce in Webber
and Walker.

Judden is good and wise.  Dave is not.

Judden told Mikey back in the July thread, and Judden reiterated again that if
one gives you enough rope, you'll hang yourself with it.  Judden's words are
true, and this simply proves it.

*flush*

 Walker has tons of

Quote:
> talent,

     Oops.  There's that quote Judden used earlier.

 but plays the game like too many of the new kids (re: Iverson), where

Quote:
> he thinks he has to shoot the ball all the time...

  He didn't last year?  Do you know his 983 bricks last year are 2nd most of
any active player in the NBA for a single season?  The only active player
with more in a season was Dominique Wilkins (1049 in 1987-88) and of last
year's players, only jordon shot more bricks in a season (1181 in 1986-87).

     What's the point?  Last year, when you selected him over Webber, he had
     demonstrated the same gunning tendencies you cite now.  And as for young
     players...well, Dominique and jordon aren't "new kids".  Your lies
     multiply upon themselves.

     You didn't care about this "data point" last year, so why do you care
     about it now?  Because you'll change your criteria and use multiple
     standards to support your argument at the time.

     Judden once made a post and called it something like "Dave Meeks: the
     Bill Clinton of RSBP".  See why?  You're rsbp's version of slick Willie.
     Too bad Judden is calling you on your lies.

     Chris Webber.  The Monica Lewinski to Dave's rep.

     *flush*

Quote:
>Bad shot selection, poor shooting percentage, lots of turnovers... Sounds like
>Allen Iverson...

      Funny, Walker's shooting percentage from 3 and overall fg% was WORSE
      last year, compared to this year, yet this "data point" didn't matter
      to you last year.

      Your cheap attempts to defame Iverson will not cover your lies and
      double-standards.  Your rep has been shreaded.  Good luck putting it
      back together.

You claim to have the humility to admit when you're wrong.  Judden says you
use any stat and double-standard to support your argument at the time.  Are
you humble enough to admit this is true, in the case of this argument?  Can
you back up the checks that your big mouth wrote?  Or will your big ego shine
through, and you'll tell more lies, ignore the post (don't worry, if your
server doesn't read this, Judden will keep re-posting it), or attempt to
change the topic?

Dave, the way Judden is kicking your [Greg Perry Word], you had better get a
change of address form and change your address from Ho-Jail to the Morgue,
cuz Judden is simply killing you on this topic.  Your double-standard ways
have been exposed in such a way that even YOU cannot weasel your way out of
this.

Judden

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REPOST: Meeks' double-standard exposed!

Post by David T. Meek » Wed, 17 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Quote:
> Got to make sure Dave sees this.  Here is repost #1.

Yes... lord knows that Judden spends a great deal of his life worrying about
me...  Of course, it could just be the shame of last night's loss to Orlando
(with Iverson bricking it up) that has him going...

Quote:
> > Ahh.. but see, here is how you and I differ...  Your ego won't let you admit
> > when you are wrong...

>      Judden freely admits when Judden is wrong.  The last time that
>      happened (1976), Judden humbly admitted the error in Judden's way.

So, were you wrong about Tim Thomas?  Were you wrong about JJ being
a guy the 76ers wanted?  Were you wrong about Spoon being the savior of the
76ers?  I could go on, but you get the point...

And hey, there's the hundreds of times you claimed 'Judden does not troll.'

Quote:
>   Oh really?  You used specific "data points" to support Walker over Webber.
> Let's look at those again:

Geesh.. you want me to pull up that thread again.. fine...

Of course, that brings up a bunch of other times you were 'wrong'... such as:
    - claiming Nate Thurmond didn't make the AllDef team in the 60s (he made it in
1969)
    - claiming Kareem couldn't make the AllDefensive team until Wilt retired (he
made
        it twice before Wilt made his first)
    - claiming that there was a 3rd team AllDefensive group.
    - claiming Wilt would 'play 11 seasons in 1970'

Now, call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure those didn't occur in 1976...

Now, on to the 'post' in question.

Quote:
>         o) He is more versatile.  He regularly has played three positions for
>                 the Celtics.
>         o) He is more of a leader.
>         o) He is (thus far) much less of a headcase/problem child.  Chrissy
>                 has whined and moaned everywhere he's gone
>         o) He is more durable.  Chrissy has been injury prone.
>         o) He is younger with more upside.  I think we've seen all of
>                 what Webber has to offer.  While quite good, Walker has
>                 more potential.
> ____________________________________________________________________

> Now, is Webber suddenly more versatile?  Can he play more positions than
> Walker?

He can now play the same number of positions as Walker, as Walker has become
LESS versatile.  He no longer plays anything but C/PF, much like Chrissy.

Quote:
> Nope. Is Webber more of a leader?  Nope.

Walker had a blowup with the team's point guard, which he was fined for.  He came
into camp way out of shape.  He's consistently been an aggravation for the coaching

staff.  When this stuff happened his first two years, you could dismiss it.  This
year,
he was expected to be the true leader, and he hasn't been that...  Meanwhile,
Webber has been very quiet and content since arriving in Sacramento.

Quote:
> Webber said he doesn't
> even WANT to be in Sacramento.

Based on what?  All reports are that he's very happy now... He may not have
wanted to go there before the season started, but Sacramento is putting together
a pretty decent team...

Quote:
> Is Webber less of a headcase/problem child?
> Has his whining and moaning ceased?  Nope.  See above.

Yes... he hasn't had any incidents of note thus far into the season.

Quote:
> . Has Walker suddenly aged drastically and surpassed Webber
> in age?

But the key here is that Walker is another year into things and hasn't shown any
improvement.  In fact, he's regressed in many ways...

 
 
 

REPOST: Meeks' double-standard exposed!

Post by air_jud.. » Thu, 18 Mar 1999 04:00:00



Quote:
> Now, on to the 'post' in question.

     Good...you couldn't avoid it forever...

Quote:
> >         o) He is more versatile.  He regularly has played three positions
for
> >                 the Celtics.
> >         o) He is more of a leader.
> >         o) He is (thus far) much less of a headcase/problem child.  Chrissy
> >                 has whined and moaned everywhere he's gone
> >         o) He is more durable.  Chrissy has been injury prone.
> >         o) He is younger with more upside.  I think we've seen all of
> >                 what Webber has to offer.  While quite good, Walker has
> >                 more potential.
> > ____________________________________________________________________

> > Now, is Webber suddenly more versatile?  Can he play more positions than
> > Walker?

> He can now play the same number of positions as Walker, as Walker has become
> LESS versatile.  He no longer plays anything but C/PF, much like Chrissy.

     His skills dried up, or Pitino used him differently?  Sounds like a
     wimp-out.  You were claiming that Walker could play all positions.  If
     Webber cannot do that, then Webber isn't as versatile.

Quote:
> > Nope. Is Webber more of a leader?  Nope.

> Walker had a blowup with the team's point guard, which he was fined for.  He
came
> into camp way out of shape.  He's consistently been an aggravation for the

coaching

  So?  You said Webber's problems have occured on every team he ever played
for.  Walker's are recent.  You weren't citing these last summer, so now  you
let a couple of isolated incidents overcome years of headaches?  Has  Walker
been arrested?  Fired a 3-time coach of the year?  If he's such  aggrivation,
why did Boston, more specifically PITINO, sign him to a long  term contract,
rather than just trade him....Hmmmmmm?

      Dave is caught in his deseperate acts.  BTW, CITE the consistent
      aggravations.  We know of your ablity to lie.

Quote:
> staff.  When this stuff happened his first two years, you could dismiss it.

      Because it helped your case.  Now that it doesn't you chose to bring
      it up.  In your post last summer, you said, "He is (thus far) much less
      of a headcase/problem child.  Chrissy has whined and moaned everywhere
      he's gone."

      You overlooked these incidents as "less" than Webber's career of
      whining and moaning.  Since Webber wasn't whining and moaning last year,
      you must put a lot of weight in Webber's history of whining and moaning.
      Now, suddenly, a couple of isolated incidents, which aren't much
      different than his earlier days, before he was a leader (even though you
      said he was more of a leader...contradiction?) was excusible.

      Only by your double-standards.

This

Quote:
> year,
> he was expected to be the true leader,

  LIE!  In last summer's post, you said of Walker: "He is more of a leader."

 and he hasn't been that...  Meanwhile,

Quote:
> Webber has been very quiet and content since arriving in Sacramento.

       LIE!  Webber said he wants out of Sacramento!

Quote:
> > Webber said he doesn't
> > even WANT to be in Sacramento.

> Based on what?  All reports are that he's very happy now...

       You haven't been following USA Today, hav eyou?

Quote:
> > Is Webber less of a headcase/problem child?
> > Has his whining and moaning ceased?  Nope.  See above.

> Yes... he hasn't had any incidents of note thus far into the season.

     the season isn't even 25 games old.  From this reasoning, what did Webber
     do in his last 25 games before you posted your requirements in that post?
     Webber had 25 game stretches of non-public whining, yet you chose to
     ignore them.

     Another double-standard.

Quote:
> > . Has Walker suddenly aged drastically and surpassed Webber
> > in age?

> But the key here is that Walker is another year into things and hasn't shown
any
> improvement.  In fact, he's regressed in many ways...

      Another lie!  You specifically pointed out his shot selection and his
      fg%.  Judden  showed that Walker is shooting less and hitting more this
      year vs. last year (the criteria in which you made your post).

      Judden KNEW you couldn't be humble and admit when you're wrong, like you
      claimed.  Your double-standard was exposed point-blank, and here you are
      lying to cover your tracks.

      Besides the many lies you told, you lied 2 other ways:

     1) responding to Judden, you lied.
     2) you lied when you said you could admit when you were wrong.

     *flush*

Judden

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