Brian Williams--Losing Money

Brian Williams--Losing Money

Post by Gary Scott Sim » Thu, 22 May 1997 04:00:00



Quote:

>Is it just me, or does it look like Brian Williams made a big
>mistake by playing for the Bulls?

    It may not be "just you", but I certainly disagree.

    Williams has reminded GMs around the league of who he was, and who he
might be.

Quote:
>Sure, he'll probably get a ring,
>but his out of shape body, and lack of any offensive confidence will
>drive his market value down.  He can't seriously expect to get the
>MacIlvaine-type dollars he's been demanding with his weak play
>for the Bulls.

     I don't think his play has been weak.  He's backed-up a foul-plagued
Longley quite effectively.

     I think those who control the pursestrings are well aware that
Williams has been gradually playing himself back into shape.  They've seen
some decent offensive moves, along with some decent defense and
rebounding.

     Here are Williams' game-by-game lines for the Bulls' first nine
playoff games.  His stats over those recent games in which he's played
major minutes indicate that he's rounding into form quite nicely.

                fgs    fts
          m     m-a    m-a  off def reb  a  f  s  t    p

         11     4-7    0-1   0   0   0   0  3  0  2    8
          6     1-3    0-0   0   1   1   0  5  1  0    2
          5     1-3    0-0   0   1   1   0  2  0  0    2

         12     1-1    2-4   1   2   3   0  2  0  0    4
          6     0-4    0-0   0   0   0   0  0  0  0    0
         22     7-11   0-1   3   2   5   1  4  2  1   14
         16     3-3    1-2   0   3   3   0  6  3  2    7
         24     5-11   2-3   8   2  10   2  3  1  0   12

         21     1-7    0-0   5   2   7   1  2  1  1    2

total   123    23-50   5-11 17  13  30   4 27  8  6   51

last 4   83    16-32   3-6  16   9  25   4 15  7  4   35

Quote:
>Would he have been better off to rest on his reputation and try
>again this summer, after getting in better shape?

     I don't think so.  If he doesn't get "McIlvaine money", I'd attribute
that to the fact that GMs have sobered up after the McIlvaine deal.
 
 
 

Brian Williams--Losing Money

Post by CyberStea » Thu, 22 May 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> Is it just me, or does it look like Brian Williams made a big
> mistake by playing for the Bulls?  Sure, he'll probably get a ring,
> but his out of shape body, and lack of any offensive confidence will
> drive his market value down.  He can't seriously expect to get the
> MacIlvaine-type dollars he's been demanding with his weak play
> for the Bulls.
> Would he have been better off to rest on his reputation and try
> again this summer, after getting in better shape?

> dave

NAH!!!  This way if Isaiah is still interested in picking him up to work
the post for Toronto he'll come nice and cheap :).  One thing he has
done is proven that his knee is up for the pounding.  Mind you he hasn't
played starting minurtes either.

Until Next Time...............The Steak Is Done!!!

*sizzle sizzle*

 
 
 

Brian Williams--Losing Money

Post by David Crot » Fri, 23 May 1997 04:00:00

Is it just me, or does it look like Brian Williams made a big
mistake by playing for the Bulls?  Sure, he'll probably get a ring,
but his out of shape body, and lack of any offensive confidence will
drive his market value down.  He can't seriously expect to get the
MacIlvaine-type dollars he's been demanding with his weak play
for the Bulls.
Would he have been better off to rest on his reputation and try
again this summer, after getting in better shape?

dave

 
 
 

Brian Williams--Losing Money

Post by David Crot » Fri, 23 May 1997 04:00:00



Quote:

>    It may not be "just you", but I certainly disagree.
>    Williams has reminded GMs around the league of who he was, and who he
>might be.

(reasonable analysis deleted)

This is all well and good.  Williams has shown himself to be
a decent role player.  But let's remember the kind of $ he's
asking for.  He's not going to get it.

Quote:

>     I don't think so.  If he doesn't get "McIlvaine money", I'd attribute
>that to the fact that GMs have sobered up after the McIlvaine deal.

He already turned down the same deal MacIlvaine was given, because
it wasn't enough for him.  Even after GM's had sobered up, he was
still after the same kind of dough.  His showing as a solid
but unspectacular backup for Longley isn't going to help his cause.

dave

 
 
 

Brian Williams--Losing Money

Post by Greg Frankl » Fri, 23 May 1997 04:00:00


Quote:
>Is it just me, or does it look like Brian Williams made a big
>mistake by playing for the Bulls?  Sure, he'll probably get a ring,
>but his out of shape body, and lack of any offensive confidence will
>drive his market value down.  He can't seriously expect to get the
>MacIlvaine-type dollars he's been demanding with his weak play
>for the Bulls.

Sure he can. He at least is playing non-garbage-time minutes in the
postseason, which is more than Mac has ever done.

Some team will look at him and say, "Gee, PJ is trusting him to be on the
floor. He's a quotable, fun loving guy. He won't be skydiving in the
offseason. That's gotta be worth $8 million at least to my ballclub on the
MacIlvaine scale! Where's my checkbook?"

Quote:
>Would he have been better off to rest on his reputation and try
>again this summer, after getting in better shape?

I think teams will throw out his 1996-97 season regardless of whether or
how bad he played, much as the Sonics threw out MacIlvaine's bad seasons
in Washington.
--
Greg Franklin

 
 
 

Brian Williams--Losing Money

Post by Gary Scott Sim » Fri, 23 May 1997 04:00:00


          <  snip  >

Quote:
>He already turned down the same deal MacIlvaine was given, because
>it wasn't enough for him.

     According to a recent article in the Online Chicago Tribune, Williams
didn't turn down the Seattle offer because it wasn't enough money (I'd
agree that would have been foolish), but rather because the offer required
him to take and pass a physical.  Williams had hurt his knee (probably
skydiving) and was hoping that someone would sign him to a big money deal
without requiring him to pass a physical.

Quote:
>Even after GM's had sobered up, he was
>still after the same kind of dough.  His showing as a solid
>but unspectacular backup for Longley isn't going to help his cause.

     By taking a role with the Bulls, I think that Williams has put his
name on the short list of just about every GM looking for a center.   If
he continues to perform as he has during the past four games, I think he
moves to the top of a few of those lists.  

    If and when Williams can pass a physical (and his recent play
indicates that he may be able to. Even if he can't, maybe he can get lucky
and find the Doctor who told the Knicks that "Medical Bill" Cartwright was
all right in the mid-80's), he should be able to sign a very nice
contract.

     It may be a long, long time before anyone else gets a McIlvaine
deal.   That said, I think the Sonics would still be playing if Williams
could have played as effectively for the Sonics as he's played recently
for the Bulls.

 
 
 

Brian Williams--Losing Money

Post by David Crot » Fri, 23 May 1997 04:00:00



Quote:

>     According to a recent article in the Online Chicago Tribune, Williams
>didn't turn down the Seattle offer because it wasn't enough money (I'd
>agree that would have been foolish), but rather because the offer required
>him to take and pass a physical.  Williams had hurt his knee (probably
>skydiving) and was hoping that someone would sign him to a big money deal
>without requiring him to pass a physical.

I thought the injury didn't occur until long after this.  As I recall,
the Lakers were negotiating with Williams, in case the Shaq deal
fell through.  The Sonics offered Williams the MacIlvaine deal, but
he deferred, wanting to wait and see what would happen with LA.  The
Sonics chose not to wait around and went ahead and signed their
stiff.  As the free agent $ dwindled, Williams still felt he
deserved at least what Seattle had offered him, even if no team
(other than the Clippers) could pay him that much.

Quote:

>     By taking a role with the Bulls, I think that Williams has put his
>name on the short list of just about every GM looking for a center.   If
>he continues to perform as he has during the past four games, I think he
>moves to the top of a few of those lists.  

We'll see.  I don't feel like he's distinguished himself.  In his
last season with the Clippers, he was a team leader, and scored and
rebounded well.  He was easily a top 10 center.  You can't say that
now.  The question is whether that rep would have held up without
him playing any this year.

dave

 
 
 

Brian Williams--Losing Money

Post by Jeff & Kristin » Sat, 24 May 1997 04:00:00



Quote:

>      By taking a role with the Bulls, I think that Williams has put his
> name on the short list of just about every GM looking for a center.   If
> he continues to perform as he has during the past four games, I think he
> moves to the top of a few of those lists.  

What for? Shooting sub 40% and getting a couple of boards per game?
He playing terrible. Granted he's out of practice and carrying 40 extra
pounds, but I still wouldn't be that high on him. At his best, he was
only a 16 ppg 7 rpg C that didn't play all that good D. At his worst
he makes Luc look good.

Jeff

 
 
 

Brian Williams--Losing Money

Post by Gary Scott Sim » Sun, 25 May 1997 04:00:00


Quote:



>>     According to a recent article in the Online Chicago Tribune, Williams
>>didn't turn down the Seattle offer because it wasn't enough money (I'd
>>agree that would have been foolish), but rather because the offer required
>>him to take and pass a physical.  Williams had hurt his knee (probably
>>skydiving) and was hoping that someone would sign him to a big money deal
>>without requiring him to pass a physical.
>I thought the injury didn't occur until long after this.

     If you like, I can try to dig out the article.  The Online Trib may
have "saved" it.

Quote:
>As I recall,
>the Lakers were negotiating with Williams, in case the Shaq deal
>fell through.  The Sonics offered Williams the MacIlvaine deal, but
>he deferred, wanting to wait and see what would happen with LA.

     Although I think that Williams would have been foolish to turn down
$30+ million dollars if the account I read was innacurate, it's probably
worth noting that only the first three years (and, I'm presuming, about
$11 million) of the Sonics' deal with McIlvaine was guaranteed.  The
Sonics have the option to cancel the last four (and, I presume, most
expensive) years of the seven-year deal.  

     I can't really hazard a guess on whether Williams was or wasn't
reasonable in hoping that he could get a more lucrative guaranteed
contract.  To my mind, an unguaranteed "back-end" is probably worth about
as much as "net points" on a movie deal.

Quote:
>The
>Sonics chose not to wait around and went ahead and signed their
>stiff.  As the free agent $ dwindled, Williams still felt he
>deserved at least what Seattle had offered him, even if no team
>(other than the Clippers) could pay him that much.
>>     By taking a role with the Bulls, I think that Williams has put his
>>name on the short list of just about every GM looking for a center.   If
>>he continues to perform as he has during the past four games, I think he
>>moves to the top of a few of those lists.  
>We'll see.  I don't feel like he's distinguished himself.  In his
>last season with the Clippers, he was a team leader, and scored and
>rebounded well.  He was easily a top 10 center.  You can't say that
>now.

     I'm not entirely certain we could say it then.    ;-)

     Doug Steele's NBA Stat page doesn't include Williams among the top
ten NBA Centers (ranked by Tendex) for the 1995-96 season, although he
didn't miss by much (10th place was 17.31 and Williams was 16.5) and did
rank 10th in offense.

Quote:
>  The question is whether that rep would have held up without
>him playing any this year.

    My hunch (and that's pretty much all those of us who aren't GMs can
offer) is that there would have been severe question marks raised if
Williams hadn't played this season.   By showing the ability to compete at
the highest level, I think Williams assuages a lot of those doubts.
 
 
 

Brian Williams--Losing Money

Post by Gary Scott Sim » Mon, 26 May 1997 04:00:00


Quote:



>>     According to a recent article in the Online Chicago Tribune, Williams
>>didn't turn down the Seattle offer because it wasn't enough money (I'd
>>agree that would have been foolish), but rather because the offer required
>>him to take and pass a physical.  Williams had hurt his knee (probably
>>skydiving) and was hoping that someone would sign him to a big money deal
>>without requiring him to pass a physical.
>I thought the injury didn't occur until long after this.

     From: http://www.chicago.tribune.com/sports/bull9697/finals/brian1.htm

     Williams ... turned down the seven-year, $35 million deal Jim
McIlvaine signed with Seattle because he didn't want to take a physical.

        That was because Williams had suffered further damage to his knee
last summer, possibly from hang gliding or skydiving. News of an operation
came out when Dallas was trying to deal for Williams earlier this season.

Quote:
>As I recall,
>the Lakers were negotiating with Williams, in case the Shaq deal
>fell through.  The Sonics offered Williams the MacIlvaine deal, but
>he deferred, wanting to wait and see what would happen with LA.

     It's probably worth noting that only the first three years (and, I'm
presuming, about $11 million) of the Sonics' deal with McIlvaine was
guaranteed.  The Sonics have the option to cancel the last four (and, I
presume, most expensive) years of the seven-year deal.  

     I can't really hazard a guess on whether Williams was or wasn't
reasonable in hoping that he could get a more lucrative guaranteed
contract.  To my mind, an unguaranteed "back-end" is probably worth about
as much as "net points" on a movie deal.

Quote:
>The
>Sonics chose not to wait around and went ahead and signed their
>stiff.  As the free agent $ dwindled, Williams still felt he
>deserved at least what Seattle had offered him, even if no team
>(other than the Clippers) could pay him that much.
>>     By taking a role with the Bulls, I think that Williams has put his
>>name on the short list of just about every GM looking for a center.   If
>>he continues to perform as he has during the past four games, I think he
>>moves to the top of a few of those lists.  
>We'll see.  I don't feel like he's distinguished himself.  In his
>last season with the Clippers, he was a team leader, and scored and
>rebounded well.  He was easily a top 10 center.  You can't say that
>now.

     I'm not entirely certain we could say "easily top 10" last year,
either.    

     ;-)

     Doug Steele's NBA Stat page doesn't include Williams among the top
ten NBA Centers (ranked by Tendex) for the 1995-96 season, although he
didn't miss by much (10th place was 17.31 and Williams was 16.5) and did
rank 10th in offense.

Quote:
>  The question is whether that rep would have held up without
>him playing any this year.

    My hunch (and that's pretty much all those of us who aren't GMs can
offer) is that there would have been severe question marks raised if
Williams hadn't played this season.   By showing the ability to compete at
the highest level, I think Williams has assuaged a lot of those doubts.