Why is there a double standard with baseball?

Why is there a double standard with baseball?

Post by Dieg » Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:23:57


I'm not American and I like all these Three Major Sports but I really
don't understand why media and sports fans tend to have a double
standard with NBA(and NFL) and MLB.
I have been reading how the NBA ratings were for Game 1 and I have
found that all media are pointing how good they were, even beating the
last episode of the Sopranos and the Tony Awards. The national Nielsen
ratings for Sunday's Game 1 on ABC were 9.8 rating and 17 share. This
was in June when the seasons of almost all series in other TV networks
are over and where there's no competition from other sports events. In
addition media writes that those ratings are up 53 percent from a 6.4,
that were the lowest rated NBA Finals.
I searched the TV ratings for last year's World Series and I have
found very interesting data: Game 1 of the series got a 10.9 rating
and 20 share and of course they don't hesitate to write a headline
like this: "Yanks-Marlins Series third-lowest rated ever".
Los Angeles is the 2nd largest market and Detroit the 10th while New
York is the 1st and Miami-Ft. Lauderdale the 17th.
Anyway, if instead of Detroit we pick the teams from the 9th TV market
(Atlanta) or the 11th (Houston), and those teams had to play agains
New York (I guess that the Yankees are in baseball what LA is in
basketball), what would the ratings be for the World Series even
considering that they are played in October when all the seasons of
series are on TV and there are other sports competitions? I guess that
they will be better than the ratings for Game 1 of the NBA Finals.
Why this double standard in baseball and so much "tolerance" with NBA
and NFL?

Thank you.

 
 
 

Why is there a double standard with baseball?

Post by David J. Grabin » Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:43:08

Quote:

> I'm not American and I like all these Three Major Sports but I really
> don't understand why media and sports fans tend to have a double
> standard with NBA(and NFL) and MLB.
> I have been reading how the NBA ratings were for Game 1 and I have
> found that all media are pointing how good they were, even beating the
> last episode of the Sopranos and the Tony Awards. The national Nielsen
> ratings for Sunday's Game 1 on ABC were 9.8 rating and 17 share. This
> was in June when the seasons of almost all series in other TV networks
> are over and where there's no competition from other sports events. In
> addition media writes that those ratings are up 53 percent from a 6.4,
> that were the lowest rated NBA Finals.
> I searched the TV ratings for last year's World Series and I have
> found very interesting data: Game 1 of the series got a 10.9 rating
> and 20 share and of course they don't hesitate to write a headline
> like this: "Yanks-Marlins Series third-lowest rated ever".

The main reason is that MLB has been trying to portray itself as being
in financial trouble since 1993, hoping to get concessions from the
union in labor negotiations.  The media, which never bothered to
question the data (why would teams pay huge expansion fees to join a
league which was never making a profit?), has picked up on the claimed
declines.

--

Baseball labor negotiations FAQ: http://remarque.org/~grabiner/laborfaq.html
Shop at the Mobius Strip Mall: Always on the same side of the street!
Klein Glassworks, Torus Coffee and Donuts, Projective Airlines, etc.

 
 
 

Why is there a double standard with baseball?

Post by Roger Moo » Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:26:58


Quote:
>The main reason is that MLB has been trying to portray itself as being
>in financial trouble since 1993, hoping to get concessions from the
>union in labor negotiations.

I think that you're wrong here.  Baseball has been portraying itself as in
trouble for about as long as there's been professional baseball, and maybe
a bit longer than that.  (There was a lot of hand wringing about
professionalism wrecking the game before the first pro league.) In
fairness, baseball _was_ in trouble fairly regularly during the early days
of the professional game, so it wasn't unreasonable for people to mention
it.  But IMO that set a bad precident.  The owners discovered that they
could manufacture sympathetic press any time they wanted it just by
claiming to be in financial trouble, and they've made that claim quite
regularly since then.

--

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the
people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by
*** and sudden usurpations.                      -- James Madison

 
 
 

Why is there a double standard with baseball?

Post by Dave Eis » Sat, 12 Jun 2004 00:43:08



Quote:

>The main reason is that MLB has been trying to portray itself as being
>in financial trouble since 1993, hoping to get concessions from the
>union in labor negotiations.  The media, which never bothered to
>question the data (why would teams pay huge expansion fees to join a
>league which was never making a profit?), has picked up on the claimed
>declines.

I assume that was a typo for 1893.

--
Dave Eisen                               Sequoia Retail Systems: 650.237.9000

       There's something in my library to offend everybody.
          --- Washington Coalition Against Censorship

 
 
 

Why is there a double standard with baseball?

Post by David J. Grabin » Sat, 12 Jun 2004 09:37:55

Quote:



> >The main reason is that MLB has been trying to portray itself as being
> >in financial trouble since 1993, hoping to get concessions from the
> >union in labor negotiations.  The media, which never bothered to
> >question the data (why would teams pay huge expansion fees to join a
> >league which was never making a profit?), has picked up on the claimed
> >declines.

> I assume that was a typo for 1893.

I know that professional baseball has been in financial trouble since
1869, but I don't think it was presented as a major issue for a while
before 1993.  The official figures reported a profit for every year from
1985 to 1993, and I don't remember many claims of non-viability and
declining interest in that period.  (I do remember that Bowie Kuhn
projected more bankruptcies in 1975 if free agency were allowed than Bud
Selig did in 1993.)

--

Baseball labor negotiations FAQ: http://remarque.org/~grabiner/laborfaq.html
Shop at the Mobius Strip Mall: Always on the same side of the street!
Klein Glassworks, Torus Coffee and Donuts, Projective Airlines, etc.

 
 
 

Why is there a double standard with baseball?

Post by marty mcmahon » Sat, 12 Jun 2004 10:05:46


Quote:
> I'm not American and I like all these Three Major Sports but I really
> don't understand why media and sports fans tend to have a double
> standard with NBA(and NFL) and MLB.
> Why this double standard in baseball and so much "tolerance" with NBA
> and NFL?

To some extent all things are relative.  If I go play golf and shoot an 85,
I'm singing and waiving my club in the air.  If Tiger Woods does it, he's
cussing and yelling at his caddie.  It's not a matter of who has the best
ratings, it's a matter of how they expected (or desired) to rate.

Marty

 
 
 

Why is there a double standard with baseball?

Post by Roger Moo » Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:41:07

Quote:

>To some extent all things are relative.  If I go play golf and shoot an 85,
>I'm singing and waiving my club in the air.  If Tiger Woods does it, he's
>cussing and yelling at his caddie.  It's not a matter of who has the best
>ratings, it's a matter of how they expected (or desired) to rate.

It's not just a matter of expectations, either; it's also a matter of
interest.  If Tiger were to shoot an 85, it would provoke reams of
analysis on the part of golf experts about what he was doing wrong.  No
other golfer, even other pros, would elicit the same level of e***ment.
That's because people not only expect Tiger to do well, but they really
want him to do well.  When he has problems, they're actually worried
rather than just interested.

I think that there's at least some of that at work in baseball.  When
baseball is, or appears to be, in trouble, people are genuinely worried in
a way that they aren't when talking about other sports.  When the number
of African Americans in baseball declines, people are deeply worried about
what it means.  When the number of white Americans in basketball declines,
or African Americans have great difficulty breaking into the NHL,
everybody yawns.  The NFL seems to attract a lot more of that than the NBA
or NHL, but none of them can compare to MLB.

--

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the
people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by
*** and sudden usurpations.                      -- James Madison

 
 
 

Why is there a double standard with baseball?

Post by Chris Zabe » Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:14:48

The dirty little secret with tv ratings is that the people who care about
them(the advertisers paying for the commercials) is that overall ratings are
not as important as to what the ratings are for certain demographics(males
aged 18 to 49 recognized as the biggest target generally).  While mlb pulls
in a higher overall rating generally, if you dig a little deeper into the
demographic breakdowns you see that a smaller percentage of MLB's audience
is in the prized demographics for advertisers than other sports like the NBA
and NFL.

--
"They tease me now, telling me it was only a dream.  But does it matter
whether it was a dream or reality, if the dream made known to me the
truth?" - Dostoevsky

 
 
 

Why is there a double standard with baseball?

Post by spamm » Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:29:55

Quote:

> I know that professional baseball has been in financial trouble since
> 1869, but I don't think it was presented as a major issue for a while
> before 1993.  The official figures reported a profit for every year from
> 1985 to 1993, and I don't remember many claims of non-viability and
> declining interest in that period.

When did Selig become Commissioner? Besides, I don't trust profit
numbers without seeing where the cash is going, and who owns the
entites receiving it. Lots of revenue can be funnelled into affiliated
companies in order to make the main baseball business look bad.
IRS doesn't care as long as it isn't a tax dodge.
 
 
 

Why is there a double standard with baseball?

Post by Dieg » Sat, 12 Jun 2004 22:33:27

About the demographics, I think that what you have said is not
correct.
NBA Finals Game 1: Among ***s 18-49, ABC had a wider margin of
victory with a 4.7 rating in the important demographic.
World Series Game 1: Among ***s 18-49, FOX led with a 5.3 rating.
Data from zap2it.com.
 
 
 

Why is there a double standard with baseball?

Post by Dieg » Sat, 12 Jun 2004 22:34:20

About the demographics, I think that what you have said is not
correct.
NBA Finals Game 1: Among ***s 18-49, ABC had a wider margin of
victory with a 4.7 rating in the important demographic.
World Series Game 1: Among ***s 18-49, FOX led with a 5.3 rating.
Data from zap2it.com.
Quote:



> > I'm not American and I like all these Three Major Sports but I really
> > don't understand why media and sports fans tend to have a double
> > standard with NBA(and NFL) and MLB.
> > Why this double standard in baseball and so much "tolerance" with NBA
> > and NFL?

> To some extent all things are relative.  If I go play golf and shoot an 85,
> I'm singing and waiving my club in the air.  If Tiger Woods does it, he's
> cussing and yelling at his caddie.  It's not a matter of who has the best
> ratings, it's a matter of how they expected (or desired) to rate.

> Marty

 
 
 

Why is there a double standard with baseball?

Post by David J. Grabin » Sun, 13 Jun 2004 11:00:32

Quote:


> > I know that professional baseball has been in financial trouble since
> > 1869, but I don't think it was presented as a major issue for a while
> > before 1993.  The official figures reported a profit for every year from
> > 1985 to 1993, and I don't remember many claims of non-viability and
> > declining interest in that period.

> When did Selig become Commissioner? Besides, I don't trust profit
> numbers without seeing where the cash is going, and who owns the
> entites receiving it. Lots of revenue can be funnelled into affiliated
> companies in order to make the main baseball business look bad.
> IRS doesn't care as long as it isn't a tax dodge.

I agree with this, and the Labor FAQ lists some examples such as the
Braves' undervalued TV contract.  That's why I pointed out that even
with cooked books, MLB reported a profit for every year from 1986 to
1993.  In 1993, they weren't crying that the sport was in trouble, only
that some teams were in trouble.

I think it was in 1994 that Selig testified to Congress that three or
four teams would go bankrupt if the system was not changed.  MLB played
through 1995 and 1996 under the old system, and nobody went bankrupt.

--

Baseball labor negotiations FAQ: http://remarque.org/~grabiner/laborfaq.html
Shop at the Mobius Strip Mall: Always on the same side of the street!
Klein Glassworks, Torus Coffee and Donuts, Projective Airlines, etc.