Pedro Martinez

Pedro Martinez

Post by DJ-J » Tue, 22 Dec 1998 04:00:00


With the surroundings in Boston changing Mo or less for the worse as far as
the offense is concerned (and Offerman isn't much of an upgrade on D either)
how do you think Pedro's win total will be affected.  I know he was
successful in the NL, but he's only facing 8 batters a game there.  I have a
guy offering Greg Vaughn, Bottalico, and his top 2 farmhands for him.  I
love the WHIP and K's that he already gets, but can he win 15-17 on a team
that will be pretty much punchless sans Nomar?

Thanks

 
 
 

Pedro Martinez

Post by RFKo » Tue, 22 Dec 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

>I have a
>guy offering Greg Vaughn, Bottalico, and his top 2 farmhands for him.  I
>love the WHIP and K's that he already gets, but can he win 15-17 on a team
>that will be pretty much punchless sans Nomar?

15 would be pretty much on target for Pedro this year, IMHO, with a few losses
(15-8?).

Vaughn is never going to repeat the numbers he put up last year; I'd guess he
hits around .250 with 30-35 dingers are a 10% dropoff in RBIs-- not bad, but
not 98 either. Bottalico isn't a great talent, and I don't really see him
improving much over the next few years. That being said, what is the position
of your team? How are you set for pitching; are you in a rebuild; who are the 2
"top farmhands"? If they're guys like Drew and Elarton, sure, do it in a
heartbeat.

Robert F. Kohm
Remove BLOCKER from my email address to respond

 
 
 

Pedro Martinez

Post by Bill Havi » Wed, 23 Dec 1998 04:00:00

Granted Boston's club doesn't look so hot at the moment.  However, I
wouldn't do anything rash at the moment.  It's a long way from the
start of the season and you shouldn't be surprised to see Boston start
making some waves soon.  The local fans are in an uproar with how this
whole offseason has gone and Boston has some excess funds to throw
around (after losing out of Mo and Bernie).  Not to mention that the
All-Star game will be played in Fenway this year (meaning that it's
bad policy to have a crappy team when the national spotlight is on
you).  Hence, I would wait until closer to Opening Day if I was going
to trade Pedro (which I still would be extremely reluctant to do).

- Bill Havice

(My "reply" email address has been modified to prevent those annoying "spam" email messages.  


 
 
 

Pedro Martinez

Post by Not a Pretty Gir » Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:00:00


: With the surroundings in Boston changing Mo or less for the worse as far as
: the offense is concerned (and Offerman isn't much of an upgrade on D either)
: how do you think Pedro's win total will be affected.

        Actually, the offense isn't worse.  Boston 2B last year were
absolutely horrid and Offerman's a good bet to have a .380 OBP with
20-30 steals.  As a result, Mike Stanley + Jose Offerman is probably
better than Mo Vaughn + Mark Lemke/Lou Merloni/Mike Benjamin/Donnie
Sadler.  And O'Leary and Valentin had off-years: if either of them
come back, the offense could be even better than last year.  So I
expect Pedro to do just as well as he did this year.  

  I know he was
: successful in the NL, but he's only facing 8 batters a game there.  I have a
: guy offering Greg Vaughn, Bottalico, and his top 2 farmhands for him.  I
: love the WHIP and K's that he already gets, but can he win 15-17 on a team
: that will be pretty much punchless sans Nomar?

        Well, Offerman and Valentin are pretty good hitters: they just
don't hit a lot of HR.  The Red Sox offense should be fine.  If you
need a top starting pitcher more, keep Pedro.  If you need a wildly
inconsistent OF, a closer, and two farmhands more, go for that.  It'd
help to know who the farmhands were.

Analyticly,
Hyoun

--
      \_____________  "...if you allow yourself to feel    \_a___________
     \_____________  the way you really feel, maybe you   \___m__s______
    \_____________  won't be afraid of that feeling      \_____a_______
   \_____________  anymore."                            \____i__t_____
  \www.mosey.com                 tori amos             \_________e___
 \_____________                                       \_____________

 
 
 

Pedro Martinez

Post by Mason M » Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

>    Actually, the offense isn't worse.  Boston 2B last year were
>absolutely horrid and Offerman's a good bet to have a .380 OBP with
>20-30 steals.  As a result, Mike Stanley + Jose Offerman is probably
>better than Mo Vaughn + Mark Lemke/Lou Merloni/Mike Benjamin/Donnie
>Sadler.  And O'Leary and Valentin had off-years: if either of them
>come back, the offense could be even better than last year.  So I
>expect Pedro to do just as well as he did this year.  

I agree.  Plus, there are plenty of guys still available (cheap) to play
1B/LF/DH.  Willie Green is one; Klesko might be had for the asking if you can
stomach $4.8 mil and 18 HR.

Quote:
>I
>have a
>: guy offering Greg Vaughn, Bottalico, and his top 2 farmhands for him.
> I
>: love the WHIP and K's that he already gets, but can he win 15-17 on a
>team
>: that will be pretty much punchless sans Nomar?

>    Well, Offerman and Valentin are pretty good hitters: they just
>don't hit a lot of HR.  The Red Sox offense should be fine.  If you
>need a top starting pitcher more, keep Pedro.  If you need a wildly
>inconsistent OF, a closer, and two farmhands more, go for that.  It'd
>help to know who the farmhands were.

That looks like a terrible deal.  I'm a latecomer so I don't know if salaries
are a consideration.  But Vaughn is more likely to hit 25-30 HR's than 50 (not
even sure he'll get 25, really, and I own him too).   There are many OF's who
can give you that production in a mixed league.  

Bottalico hasn't had a single good outing since his arm surgery and Acevedo was
very tough as a closer the second half last year.  I don't think Bottalico
would even warrant a roster spot in a mixed league.

Meanwhile Pedro is one of the top 4-5 SP's every year.

Mark

 
 
 

Pedro Martinez

Post by air.. » Fri, 25 Dec 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
> Granted Boston's club doesn't look so hot at the moment.  However, I
> wouldn't do anything rash at the moment.  It's a long way from the
> start of the season and you shouldn't be surprised to see Boston start
> making some waves soon.  The local fans are in an uproar with how this
> whole offseason has gone and Boston has some excess funds to throw
> around (after losing out of Mo and Bernie).  Not to mention that the
> All-Star game will be played in Fenway this year (meaning that it's
> bad policy to have a crappy team when the national spotlight is on
> you).  Hence, I would wait until closer to Opening Day if I was going
> to trade Pedro (which I still would be extremely reluctant to do).

> - Bill Havice

> (My "reply" email address has been modified to prevent those annoying "spam"
email messages.


The Red Sox brass doesn't have a clue. They have no plan. They thought for
sure that many players would knock down their door for a chance to play in
Fenway. Imagine their surprise when no one was interested. Bernie Williams
may have been, but there was no way George was going to allow that to happen.
Dan Duquette tells fans to login to the Red Sox web page for the inside scoop
and all the latest information about the team. There's no fact on that site,
just propaganda. Have any of you ever heard Duquette talk. He says this will
be a fun team for the fans to watch and that we will really love Jose
Offerman. I lke the guy and I am glad the Sox signed him. He was signed for
too much money and he will not come near filling the void that Mo left. And
that void is a lot more than replacing the numbers. The other thing Duquette
has been saying since he arrived is that the team will be competitive. Every
year the teams mission is to field a competitive team. You never hear him
talk about winning the World Series or winning the championship. Its always
about fielding a competitive team. On the few occassions that he mentions the
World Series he says they would LIKE TO WIN THE WORLD SERIES. He never says
that we are striving to win or that we want to field a World Series caliber
team. NO! They want to field a competitive team. All the other big market
teams talk about winning the World Series. They don't say they would like to
win it, they WANT to win it. The Sox don't. The front office is not committed
to it. They know that they have a captive fan base who are desperate for a
winner and will come to the park by the droves as long as they appear to be
in a race. Well, this years addition will be out of contention by the end of
May. To add insult to injury, Mo may lead the charge to kill this team by
leading a 3 game sweep the weekend of May 7. Old Fenway will be packed that
weekend and the majority will be rooting for Mo because we know the Sox
didn't want Mo and Mo took the money after it became apparent that the Sox
weren't serious about re-signing him. The only way the Sox can improve is by
trading away their best prospects because they have no one on the major
league level that has any value that they can part with. They can't trade
Nomar, Gordon, and Martinez. They really can't afford to trade Saberhagen or
Wakefield. Their most valuable commodities are Valentin and Lowe with Lowe
being the player teams are looking for. Who else can they trade? O'Leary,
Stanley, Lewis, Buford. What can the Sox expect to receive in return fot the
likes of these guys? Not much. And to top it all off, those idiots have told
the City of Boston that they will no longer permit the peanut, sausage or any
other vendor to conduct their business on the streets adjacent to the park
citing health and safety concerns. Who's kidding who here. And to make
matters worse for me is that Fenway is a block form my office. I am reminded
of this horror Monday through Friday. Now that I have gotten myself all
worked up, I need to go blow off some steam. Its Christmas Eve and I've just
wrote myself out of the Christmas spirit. Let me try to reverse that by
wishing everyone a safe and happy holiday. May Santa bring you a Mo Vaughn
and a Kevin Brown for your roto team.

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

 
 
 

Pedro Martinez

Post by Christopher Brent Fall » Fri, 25 Dec 1998 04:00:00

Alright, you had to know this was going to***someone off, and it looks
like I'm the first customer...

Quote:
>The Red Sox brass doesn't have a clue. They have no plan. They thought for
>sure that many players would knock down their door for a chance to play in
>Fenway.

That is complete and utter nonsense...you are stating that an organization
with two of the best young players in the game signed for extended contracts
at relatively low salaries, given the current state of things, and little
money commited anywhere else, and a farm system consistently rated as among
the top 5 in baseball much higher than that by some, has no plan...  I'd say
that is a significantly better plan than spending 80 million dollars on a 31
year old, overweight DH-waiting-to-happen in a year when you cannot
realistically expect to win your DIVISION, much less a WS...why would they
expect FAs to be knocking down their doors?  FAs go where the money is, and
they did not offer any but Bernie real money, and that situation was out of
their control...

Quote:
>Imagine their surprise when no one was interested. Bernie Williams
>may have been, but there was no way George was going to allow that to

happen.

They made a great effort to sign the only Free agent available who has a
chance at playing out his contract at a reasonable level of performance - OK
maybe Belle does, too...  in my opinion, more of a chance than Bernie, but
there are other reasons not to like Belle, I don't agree with those reasons,
but they are there and you could see why it was a concern...

Quote:
>Dan Duquette tells fans to login to the Red Sox web page for the inside
scoop
>and all the latest information about the team. There's no fact on that
site,
>just propaganda. Have any of you ever heard Duquette talk. He says this
will
>be a fun team for the fans to watch and that we will really love Jose
>Offerman. I lke the guy and I am glad the Sox signed him.

He is doing his JOB.  THese statements are exactly like the statements every
GM makes every year

Quote:
>He was signed for
>too much money and he will not come near filling the void that Mo left. And
>that void is a lot more than replacing the numbers.

Offerman is a decent leadoff hitter who was signed at slightly above the
going rate for decent leadoff hitters...I agree he will be overpaid, but he
is by no means supposed to be Mo's replacement, just a piece of the puzzle
that is a succesful team...his numbers over the past four years have been
consistently above average for leadoff hitters in the majors, and last year
he was borderline excellent...

The other thing Duquette

Quote:
>has been saying since he arrived is that the team will be competitive.
Every
>year the teams mission is to field a competitive team. You never hear him
>talk about winning the World Series or winning the championship. Its always
>about fielding a competitive team. On the few occassions that he mentions
the
>World Series he says they would LIKE TO WIN THE WORLD SERIES. He never says
>that we are striving to win or that we want to field a World Series caliber
>team. NO! They want to field a competitive team. All the other big market
>teams talk about winning the World Series. They don't say they would like
to
>win it, they WANT to win it. The Sox don't.

THey don't say that because they have not fielded a team that they felt
could win the world series in a while...they had good seasons in '95 and in
'98, but that is all they were, good seasons...you did not see management
panic and trade away the whole system to get that 'last piece' for the
stretch drive because they realize that that would be foolish, because they
have not had a team that was one, or two, pieces away from a title in the
past few years...THe sox management sets realistic goals and does not jump
foolishly just because the team is playing above it's head for a year...Do
you think Houston is glad it traded for Johnson this year?  Or, more
accurately, should they be glad?  No, because he got them nowhere, and there
is no one that would have, because the Yankees were head and shoulders above
EVERY OTHER TEAM this year, the rest were just playing to be the first
loser...

Quote:
>The front office is not committed
>to it. They know that they have a captive fan base who are desperate for a
>winner and will come to the park by the droves as long as they appear to be
>in a race.

They are called fans...real fans who like to watch baseball, not just world
series teams...

Quote:
>Well, this years addition will be out of contention by the end of
>May.

Maybe so, but do you really think they would have been in contention if they
had signed any TWO free agents?  THe Yankees are better than them at EVERY
position...except SS and Ace, which are not HUGE differences, and closer is
real close, myself I'd take Rivera over Gordon in the long haul, but I could
be wrong...a team cannot make up for that in one offseason, no matter how
much money you go out and spend

Quote:
>To add insult to injury, Mo may lead the charge to kill this team by
>leading a 3 game sweep the weekend of May 7. Old Fenway will be packed that
>weekend and the majority will be rooting for Mo because we know the Sox
>didn't want Mo and Mo took the money after it became apparent that the Sox
>weren't serious about re-signing him.

THe Red Sox offered mo Vaughn exactly what he said he would sign for...would
you pay him for six years, as a fantasy baseball owner?

Quote:
>The only way the Sox can improve is by trading away their best prospects

because they have no one on the major

Quote:
>league level that has any value that they can part with. They can't trade
>Nomar, Gordon, and Martinez. They really can't afford to trade Saberhagen
or
>Wakefield. Their most valuable commodities are Valentin and Lowe with Lowe
>being the player teams are looking for. Who else can they trade?

What are you trying to say, I'm not sure I follow...You are saying that they
do not have anyone on the major league roster to trade, but then you go on
to name several.  I really doubt that they will trade any of these players,
with the possible exception of Gordon, or Saberhagen if the right offer were
to come around...  Nomar and Martinez are extremely valuable because they
are young and signed for long term deals...No trade there... Wakefield is a
good contrast to Pedro on consecutive days, plus he can pitch almost
unlimited innings, a good guy to have around...  Valentin's trade value is
low because he had a subpar year in the more glamorous categories...  Lowe
is a YOUNG power pitcher who had a great year as a reliver, but struggled as
a starter(relief appearances - 2.88 ERA, 1.19 WHIP) and has nowhere to go
but up...  Gordon and Sabes are expendable because they are overvalued
because of good years and aging quickly...A good closer or a reliable
starter will always bring a good price come August, and I imagine that DD is
thinking that very thing for this season...so I don't really know what you
are trying to say...I doubt that the Sox will part with much of the minor
league system any time soon, either, they have made acommitment to player
development since DD has been in Boston, and they are just getting close to
reaping some of the benefits...the only major prospect that they have given
up in the past few years is Pavano, who was neccesary to land Pedro...I
think that was a pretty easy decision, don't you?

O'Leary,

Quote:
>Stanley, Lewis, Buford. What can the Sox expect to receive in return fot
the
>likes of these guys? Not much.

No argument here.

Quote:
>And to top it all off, those idiots have told
>the City of Boston that they will no longer permit the peanut, sausage or
any
>other vendor to conduct their business on the streets adjacent to the park
>citing health and safety concerns.

They have resolved this by closing off Yawkey way on gamedays, allowing the
vendors to safely serve the public as they always have

Quote:
> Who's kidding who here. And to make
>matters worse for me is that Fenway is a block form my office. I am
reminded
>of this horror Monday through Friday.

My problem with this whole 'the sky is falling' attitude is simply that many
are criticising this team for not spending 60-100 million dollars on any one
of a free agent class who are all on the downside of the aging curve and all
were signed for 5+ years...we as fantasy baseball players know that this is
smart, not 'a horror'  would you trade all of your prospects for Kevin Brown
in a year when you were 20 points out of the money?  that simply does not
make sense, You make stupid, rash moves when you are very close to winning
it all, not when all that foolishness is going to get you is from fifth
place to fourth...  The Red Sox had the second best record in the AL this
year, but I think we all look at that lineup and see a team that should have
finished about 6th or 7th in the league in wins...  the fact that they were
a playoff team this year does not mean that they are close to being a real
contender, and a spending spree is not going to help things any, only
patience and good player development will...

Now that I have gotten myself all

Quote:
>worked up, I need to go blow off some steam. Its Christmas Eve and I've
just
>wrote myself out of the Christmas spirit. Let me try to reverse that by
>wishing everyone a safe and happy holiday. May Santa bring you a Mo Vaughn
>and a Kevin Brown for your roto team.

I'd prefer if he had Pedro and Nomar somewhere in that Fantasy Sack...Happy
holidays.  Criticisms to any of my thoughts welcome, but let's all remember
it's the holidays, so make the criticisms reasonable, not simply trolling...
 
 
 

Pedro Martinez

Post by Sean Forma » Sat, 16 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

> Hi Hyoun, liked your web site btw.

> John Hunt, in his USA Today column (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/bbw/v49/bbw4918.htm),
> recently projected Offerman at first base, and Frye at second. I was sort of surprised at his. Any
> idea where he got that notion from? If that's true, I would call that a significant drop-off from
> 1998.

I've read this a lot elsewhere.  Even so, Frye is a substantial increase
from Mike Benjamin and with that configuration the offense would be only
slightly worse.  Rico Brogna and Jose Offerman == Mo Vaughn and Mike
Benjamin, so you don't have to be too great of a player to equal last year
with Offerman.

Quote:
> Not sure what the hell is going oningly,
> John Everly (dedicated asbbo lurker)

later,
sean

Sean Forman          Program in Applied Math, The University of Iowa  
                                      ---
    At that moment a hearty "Ho!" was heard from the adjoining room.
   "What happened Lao Tse, did you reach enlightenment again?" Nietzche
            called out.        
   "No, JT Snow just took Journey of Two Bases to left-center gap."
     -Tom Austin in the 1998 Big Bad Baseball Annual (www.backatcha.com)

 
 
 

Pedro Martinez

Post by Jim Buchol » Sat, 16 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

> Anyone who thinks, Offerman and anyone is an upgrade over Vaughn and
> anyone has been in front of a calculator FAR too long!!!

Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Get, you're HEADS out of a STAT book. and try
watching some games!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--
                             Jim Bucholz

               * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"I hope that after I die, people will say of me, 'That guy sure owed
me a lot of money.'" -- Jack Handey

 
 
 

Pedro Martinez

Post by Johnfis » Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:00:00


Quote:

> : With the surroundings in Boston changing Mo or less for the worse as far as
> : the offense is concerned (and Offerman isn't much of an upgrade on D either)
> : how do you think Pedro's win total will be affected.

>         Actually, the offense isn't worse.  Boston 2B last year were
> absolutely horrid and Offerman's a good bet to have a .380 OBP with
> 20-30 steals.  As a result, Mike Stanley + Jose Offerman is probably
> better than Mo Vaughn + Mark Lemke/Lou Merloni/Mike Benjamin/Donnie
> Sadler.  And O'Leary and Valentin had off-years: if either of them
> come back, the offense could be even better than last year.  So I
> expect Pedro to do just as well as he did this year.

>   I know he was
> : successful in the NL, but he's only facing 8 batters a game there.  I have a
> : guy offering Greg Vaughn, Bottalico, and his top 2 farmhands for him.  I
> : love the WHIP and K's that he already gets, but can he win 15-17 on a team
> : that will be pretty much punchless sans Nomar?

>         Well, Offerman and Valentin are pretty good hitters: they just
> don't hit a lot of HR.  The Red Sox offense should be fine.  If you
> need a top starting pitcher more, keep Pedro.  If you need a wildly
> inconsistent OF, a closer, and two farmhands more, go for that.  It'd
> help to know who the farmhands were.

> Analyticly,
> Hyoun

Hi Hyoun, liked your web site btw.

John Hunt, in his USA Today column (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/bbw/v49/bbw4918.htm),
recently projected Offerman at first base, and Frye at second. I was sort of surprised at his. Any
idea where he got that notion from? If that's true, I would call that a significant drop-off from
1998.

Not sure what the hell is going oningly,
John Everly (dedicated asbbo lurker)

 
 
 

Pedro Martinez

Post by BballJun » Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Anyone who thinks, Offerman and anyone is an upgrade over Vaughn and anyone has
been in front of a calculator FAR too long!!!
 
 
 

Pedro Martinez

Post by Sean Forma » Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:00:00


Quote:
> Anyone who thinks, Offerman and anyone is an upgrade over Vaughn and anyone has
> been in front of a calculator FAR too long!!!

That would be clearly wrong.  

Offerman and anyone << Vaughn and the same anyone

However

Offerman and ANY starting first baseman in the Major leagues last year

Quote:
>=

Vaughn and 1998 Red Sox second ba***.

The calculator quip is pretty funny.  I'll have to remember that one.

later,
sean

Sean Forman                      Program in Applied Mathematics U. Of Iowa
"Are there any math majors in the crowd??"--Natalie Merchant,5/6/96 Ames,IA
New Minors reports coming January, soli.inav.net/~sforman/Baseball.html

 
 
 

Pedro Martinez

Post by Jack Coon » Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Quote:
>Hi Hyoun, liked your web site btw.

>John Hunt, in his USA Today column (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/bbw/v49/bbw4918.htm),
>recently projected Offerman at first base, and Frye at second. I was sort of surprised at his. Any
>idea where he got that notion from? If that's true, I would call that a significant drop-off from
>1998.

That's kind of funny.  Most people I talked to think it's going to be
Stanley/Jefferson at 1B, which would make a killer platoon (35 HR, 120
RBI).  You could let Offerman DH a little, but he should play 2B whenever
he can.  However, if Frye is healthy, he's also good for a .380 OBP which
means you should get his bat into the lineup whenever you can.  If Frye's
defense is ok after the knee surgery (read: better than Offerman) then
Offerman has no position.  Jimy-one-m will likely rotate them all with
minor league slugger Brian Daubauch thrown into the mix.  It should be an
interesting season in Boston.  But like Hyoun, I think their offense is
going to be just fine (big hulking guys who can hit are remarkably easy to
find).

Jack Cooney

 
 
 

Pedro Martinez

Post by Dane Sei Muramo » Mon, 18 Jan 1999 04:00:00

: Anyone who thinks, Offerman and anyone is an upgrade over Vaughn and anyone has
: been in front of a calculator FAR too long!!!
Umm.... I think that Offerman and Roger Clemens... wait we should make
this reasonable (i.e. first baseman and second baseman)...
I think that Offerman and Mark McGwire is an upgrade over Vaughn and John
Valentin.