All-time ACC Squad??

All-time ACC Squad??

Post by <BKP1.. » Sat, 04 Dec 1993 18:14:40


Quoted from the ***ian-Pilot & Ledger-Star

A newspaper in Raleigh polled readers for their all-time ACC basketball squad.
First Team:  David Thompson, James Worthy, Michael Jordan, Christian Laettner,
and Bobby Hurley. <End Quote>

What are the people in the Triangle thinking???  Bobby Hurley better than Phil
Ford or John Lucas?  Christian Laettner better than Ralph Sampson?  This poll
is a joke!!  Remember, there is basketball off of Tobacco Road.

If any of you down in the Triangle have the rest of the team picks from this
poll, I would love to see them posted.  Chris Wasburn is probably second team
along with Rodl and Matt Doherty.  :-)
=============================================================================
Kyle Parrish - Network Coordinator            o Fax   (804) 683-5290
Old Dominion University Research Foundation   o Voice (804) 683-4293

            - Our life is what our thoughts make it -
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All-time ACC Squad??

Post by Joyce Juni » Sun, 05 Dec 1993 20:42:20

Sampson
Laettner
Bias
Thompson
Hurley

first team.
--
Fred Polli, UVA Law.  Go CAVS, Go Giants!
for information about subscriptions to HOOpS! Newsletter send


 
 
 

All-time ACC Squad??

Post by Devendra Telikicherla Kum » Mon, 06 Dec 1993 01:12:38

Quote:

>Quoted from the ***ian-Pilot & Ledger-Star

>A newspaper in Raleigh polled readers for their all-time ACC basketball squad.
>First Team:  David Thompson, James Worthy, Michael Jordan, Christian Laettner,
>and Bobby Hurley. <End Quote>

>What are the people in the Triangle thinking???  Bobby Hurley better than Phil
>Ford or John Lucas?  Christian Laettner better than Ralph Sampson?  This poll
>=============================================================================
>Kyle Parrish - Network Coordinator            : Fax   (804) 683-5290

While arguments can always be made as to who should and shouldn't
be on an all-time ACC squad, remember this -- Laettner and
Hurley were among the most successful players ever to play
college basketball. Laettner has all kinds of tournament records
and will always be known as one of the most clutch players of
all-time. Hurley is the all-time assist leader in the history
of the NCAA and ran a team that made 3 straight championship
games and won 2 titles. Not too many other players, ACC or
otherwise, can claim such success. There may be other more
talented guys out there, but if you are looking at success at
the college level, these guys were 2 of the greatest.

Deve

--
Devendra Telikicherla Kumar
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:     ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt5611c


 
 
 

All-time ACC Squad??

Post by Robert Burg » Mon, 06 Dec 1993 02:51:53

Quote:

>Quoted from the ***ian-Pilot & Ledger-Star

>A newspaper in Raleigh polled readers for their all-time ACC basketball squad.
>First Team:  David Thompson, James Worthy, Michael Jordan, Christian Laettner,
>and Bobby Hurley. <End Quote>

>What are the people in the Triangle thinking???  Bobby Hurley better than Phil
>Ford or John Lucas?  Christian Laettner better than Ralph Sampson?  This poll
>is a joke!!  Remember, there is basketball off of Tobacco Road.

        Right.  How many NCAA championships have the ACC teams
        off Tobacco Road won?  In fact, how many NCAA title
        games have the ACC teams off Tobacco Road played in?

        Laettner and Hurley were on two championship teams.
        Laettner played in four title games; Hurley, in three.
        Thompson, Worthy, and Jordan were all on championship
        teams.

        --rb

 
 
 

All-time ACC Squad??

Post by Willia » Tue, 07 Dec 1993 23:02:26

 >A newspaper in Raleigh polled readers for their all-time ACC basketball
 >squad. First Team:  David Thompson, James Worthy, Michael Jordan,
 >Christian Laettner, and Bobby Hurley. <End Quote>
 >
 >What are the people in the Triangle thinking???  Bobby Hurley better
 >than Phil Ford or John Lucas?  Christian Laettner better than Ralph
 >Sampson?  This poll is a joke!!  Remember, there is basketball off
 >of Tobacco Road.

Looks like the first team players got bonuses for playing on national
championship teams, especially Laettner who did it twice.  It's hard
to ignore this fact.

Need remind you that a good team is a lot better than a great superplayer
anytime.  That's what basketball is all about.

I dislike any contest or polling for first team or such because no player
can accomplish much, if any, without his team support.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

All-time ACC Squad??

Post by Robert Burg » Tue, 07 Dec 1993 23:20:14

Quote:


> >A newspaper in Raleigh polled readers for their all-time ACC basketball
> >squad. First Team:  David Thompson, James Worthy, Michael Jordan,
> >Christian Laettner, and Bobby Hurley. <End Quote>

> >What are the people in the Triangle thinking???  Bobby Hurley better
> >than Phil Ford or John Lucas?  Christian Laettner better than Ralph
> >Sampson?  This poll is a joke!!  Remember, there is basketball off
> >of Tobacco Road.

>Looks like the first team players got bonuses for playing on national
>championship teams, especially Laettner who did it twice.  It's hard
>to ignore this fact.

        So are we supposed to penalize Laettner for playing
        on two championship teams?  I think he also holds a
        few individual records too.

        By the way, there was a letter in the Raleigh paper
        on Sunday claiming that Ralph Sampson's election to
        the second all-time all-ACC team was a travesty.
        This guy argued that Tommy Burleson should have been
        on the second team and claimed that Ralph's teams
        never even won an ACC title.  Is that so?

        --rb

 
 
 

All-time ACC Squad??

Post by <BKP1.. » Tue, 07 Dec 1993 18:57:41


(Williams) says:

Quote:


> >A newspaper in Raleigh polled readers for their all-time ACC basketball
> >squad. First Team:  David Thompson, James Worthy, Michael Jordan,
> >Christian Laettner, and Bobby Hurley. <End Quote>

> >What are the people in the Triangle thinking???  Bobby Hurley better
> >than Phil Ford or John Lucas?  Christian Laettner better than Ralph
> >Sampson?  This poll is a joke!!  Remember, there is basketball off
> >of Tobacco Road.

>Looks like the first team players got bonuses for playing on national
>championship teams, especially Laettner who did it twice.  It's hard
>to ignore this fact.

>Need remind you that a good team is a lot better than a great superplayer

My point is that the voting was not for the best team players, or for
championship MVP's , it was for the all-time ACC team.  This team is
supposed to be comprised of the best players, as individuals.  The pro-bowl
does not consist of plyers from super bowl teams, neither does the hall
of fame contain only championship team members.  This was not a vote
on possible "team chemistry", it was a vote for the best ever players.

============================================================================

Quote:
>---------------------------------------------------------------------

Kyle Parrish - Network Coordinator            | Fax   (804) 683-5290
Old Dominion University Research Foundation   | Voice (804) 683-4293

            - Our life is what our thoughts make it -
                       Marcus Aurelius
 
 
 

All-time ACC Squad??

Post by C. D. Watt » Wed, 08 Dec 1993 05:44:08

Quote:
>A newspaper in Raleigh polled readers for their all-time ACC >basketball

squad.  First Team:  David Thompson, James Worthy, >Michael Jordan,
Christian Laettner, and Bobby Hurley.

I have to say that Bobby Hurley was a clutch player but not as
significant a player as Phil Ford.  No, Ford won no NCAA Championships,
though his teams were highly rated during the season and played in the
final game one year and the final four another.  Injuries cost those
teams dearly.  However, Phil Ford and Kareem have something in common.
Their unique abilities to exploit an aspect of the game so thoroughly
that the "authorities" decide to outlaw that aspect of the game.  The
clock, the closely guarded rule, and the time line were all a response to
the unique way that Phil Ford could exploit his superior ball handeling,
passing and shooting abilities.  The four corners was not a stall but an
offense, with Phil Ford at the helm.  Dean Smith recognized the strength
that Phil borought to this attack and tried unsuccessfully to get other
point guards to be successful with it.   Without question Ford dominated
the conference and the nation, being selected player of the year, from
the point guard position.  

Of course, the poll reflects a short memory.  What about Billy Cunningham
and Charlie Scott.  Cunningham played on the team that took the NCAA
Championship from Kansas' team with Wilt Chamberlin.  I'll always
remember the night that Carolina won the ACC championship and the entire
crowd cheered "Great Scott -- Great Scott" as time ran down.  For those
of you who didn't know, Scott was the 1st Black baskettball player at
UNC.  The juxtoposition of the rabidly racist citizenry -- the sort of
culture that created a Jesse Helms -- and the sweet science of Scott's
defense and break away layups, came together in a way that fundamentally
affected many in the state.  Rarley does a sportsman's ability have the
social consequenses that Scott's did.  Later, in the Eastern Regional
Finals of the NCAA Championships, Scott hit a last second jumper in the
lane to defeat Davidson (then coached by Lefty Drezell with the
outstanding player Mike Malloy) by one point.   After Scotts
performances, it was alright to have black ball players in the ACC.

Lest you think rightly that I have a Carolina bias, I have to point to
John Lucas as a better point guard than Bobby Hurley.  Of course, Lucas
played in the time when only the ACC tournament Champ made it to the
NCAA's.  They happen to have lost on two occasions to the best team in
the nation during that period -- NC State with David Thompson.

 
 
 

All-time ACC Squad??

Post by Andrew J. Newm » Wed, 08 Dec 1993 02:09:03

Quote:
>A newspaper in Raleigh polled readers for their all-time ACC basketball squad.
>First Team:  David Thompson, James Worthy, Michael Jordan, Christian Laettner,
>and Bobby Hurley. <End Quote>

>What are the people in the Triangle thinking???  Bobby Hurley better than Phil
>Ford or John Lucas?  Christian Laettner better than Ralph Sampson?  This poll
>is a joke!!  Remember, there is basketball off of Tobacco Road.
>    Right.  How many NCAA championships have the ACC teams
>    off Tobacco Road won?  In fact, how many NCAA title
>    games have the ACC teams off Tobacco Road played in?
>    Laettner and Hurley were on two championship teams.
>    Laettner played in four title games; Hurley, in three.
>    Thompson, Worthy, and Jordan were all on championship

        teams.

I seem to remember Len Bias winning an ACC title.  I don't have
the stats handy, but didn't he have a more impressive collegiate
career than James Worthy?  In fact, I would guess that he
matches up quite well with Laettner also.

IMHO Kenny Anderson is the best point guard to ever play in
the ACC but since he didn't hang around long enough to build
up the stats, going with Hurley isn't a bad choice.

 
 
 

All-time ACC Squad??

Post by Joyce Juni » Wed, 08 Dec 1993 05:37:58

Quote:

> I seem to remember Len Bias winning an ACC title.  I don't have
> the stats handy, but didn't he have a more impressive collegiate
> career than James Worthy?  In fact, I would guess that he
> matches up quite well with Laettner also.

        Bias was incredible.  He could have had a Jordanesque
NBA career if he didn't waste his life on coke.  Stupid stuff,
***.  Shit, if you have to get high, smoke pot.  Much more
bang for the buck.  And hasn't killed anybody yet.

        Yes, Bias was more impressive than Worthy.  ACC titles,
or national titles cannot be the sole or even primary criterion
for judging individual players as individuals.  The great
player on a bad team is not going to win championships, but he
can make his team win a lot more games than they would have
without him.  It's a factor, but can be overrated.
--
Fred Polli, UVA Law.  Go CAVS, Go Giants!
for information about subscriptions to HOOpS! Newsletter send

 
 
 

All-time ACC Squad??

Post by Rich H » Thu, 09 Dec 1993 00:29:03


Quote:

>    Yes, Bias was more impressive than Worthy.  ACC titles,

I personally would like to believe so, but can someone post Bias and Worthy
collegiate stats, please?

Rich Hsu

 
 
 

All-time ACC Squad??

Post by Charles Board P0 » Thu, 09 Dec 1993 23:27:20


Quote:


> >>   Yes, Bias was more impressive than Worthy.

> Impressive maybe, but not more effective.

> >I personally would like to believe so, but can someone post Bias and Worthy
> >collegiate stats, please?

> >Rich Hsu

> Player Yrs   FG%  FT%   PPG  RPG  APG  SPG  BPG
> Bias     4  .536 .795  16.4  5.7  1.3  0.6  0.7
> Worthy   3  .541 .652  14.5  7.4  2.5  1.4  1.1

> Worthy gets the statistical edge (not to mention the fact that he
> didn't stay around for his senior season, which would have likely
> padded his stats even more).

I don't want to disagree strongly here...I would probably pick Bias as the
second forward on my all-time ACC team, but I would't argue very much with
Worthy either. But using career stats to compare the two is a little unfair.
Worthy was a starter from day one, while Bias barely played 20 mpg and got
7 ppg as a frosh.
Here are their stats as *starters*:

Player   Yrs  FG%  FT%  PPG   RPG  APG  SPG  BPG
Bias     3    .544 .815 19.1  6.1  1.4  0.7  0.7
Worthy   3    .541 .652 14.5  7.4  2.5  1.4  1.1

Quote:

> As for impressions:

> Bias was picked 2nd in the '86 NBA draft after his senior year.
> Worthy was picked 1st in the '82 NBA draft after his *JUNIOR* year.

On the other hand...
  Bias was a two-time ACC Player Of the Year, Worthy zero.
  Bias was first-team All-ACC twice, Worthy once.
  Bias was a two-time All American (AP-second team '85,unanimous first in
    '86), Worthy was a one-timer (AP second team in '82)
Those numbers would be different if Worthy had stayed for his senior
season, but are at least as relevant as draft position.

Quote:

> I'd say neither one was clearly better than the other, but considering
> everything (including my bias), I'd take Worthy.

I'd pretty much agree with the first part, but take Bias slightly
because he was the more exciting player - and he could shoot free throws :-)
'Course Worthy is still alive....

Quote:

> Did I surprise anyone?

About as much as I did.

***************************************************************************
* Charlie Board |"Some of the things that live in the lower intestines    *

*               | live in the lower intestines of rats are highly         *
* "BNR might    | disagreeable anyway, so their opinion can and should    *
*  not agree"   | be discounted." - Douglas Adams                         *
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All-time ACC Squad??

Post by Mark Copela » Fri, 10 Dec 1993 00:12:38


Quote:

>On the other hand...
>  Bias was a two-time ACC Player Of the Year, Worthy zero.
>  Bias was first-team All-ACC twice, Worthy once.
>  Bias was a two-time All American (AP-second team '85,unanimous first in
>    '86), Worthy was a one-timer (AP second team in '82)
>Those numbers would be different if Worthy had stayed for his senior
>season, but are at least as relevant as draft position.

>I'd pretty much agree with the first part, but take Bias slightly
>because he was the more exciting player - and he could shoot free throws :-)
>'Course Worthy is still alive....

According to SI's Dream Season (April 1993 p27) Worthy was first team All-American
in 1981 and 1982.

Also, I am not so sure that Worthy started as a freshman, but if you limit your
"stat" search, you introduce "what if's". For example, Bias was featured in
Lefty's system where as Worthy was not in Smith's system.

Bias will always be remembered for his dominating game at the Smith Center, and for
what "could have been." Worthy for his consistent play and championships (NBA
included).

I'll take both and throw 2 balls out on the court. At least this is a reasonable
comparison, unlike the Sampson-Maravich thread.

mark

 
 
 

All-time ACC Squad??

Post by Andrew Markham P2 » Fri, 10 Dec 1993 01:00:07


Quote:

>> Worthy gets the statistical edge (not to mention the fact that he
>> didn't stay around for his senior season, which would have likely
>> padded his stats even more).

>I don't want to disagree strongly here...I would probably pick Bias as the
>second forward on my all-time ACC team, but I would't argue very much with
>Worthy either. But using career stats to compare the two is a little unfair.
>Worthy was a starter from day one, while Bias barely played 20 mpg and got
>7 ppg as a frosh.

>Here are their stats as *starters*:

So, let me understand this.  Worthy comes out of high school good enough to
start for one of the top teams in the nation, while Bias comes out of high
school and can't start for Maryland.  

The solution?  Give Bias a one-year head start.  I just don't think so.

The Freshman year of Worthy was *MUCH* better than Bias'.

The Soph/Junior years are effectively a toss-up (17.2ppg, 5.7rpg for Bias,
14.9ppg, 7.4rpg for Worthy, with Worthy getting the edge in assists/steals/
blocks for all years).

Bias had an outstanding senior year, but you gotta figure that Worthy
would have, too.

You look at their careers overall, and Worthy gets the slight edge.

Quote:
>> As for impressions:

>> Bias was picked 2nd in the '86 NBA draft after his senior year.
>> Worthy was picked 1st in the '82 NBA draft after his *JUNIOR* year.

>On the other hand...
>  Bias was a two-time ACC Player Of the Year, Worthy zero.
>  Bias was first-team All-ACC twice, Worthy once.
>  Bias was a two-time All American (AP-second team '85,unanimous first in
>    '86), Worthy was a one-timer (AP second team in '82)

>Those numbers would be different if Worthy had stayed for his senior
>season, but are at least as relevant as draft position.

Well, Bias never had to content with Ralph Sampson for POY awards, but
then again, had Worthy stayed one more season, he still would have lost
POY to Sampson and *THEN* would have probably been drafted No. 2 behind
him to boot!

--
Andy Markham                

BNR, Inc.