Orioles lack the final sting...

Orioles lack the final sting...

Post by Shivaram Harihar » Tue, 26 Jul 1994 12:50:54


It looks like for the past 2 seasons ( 1992 & 1993) and including this
season, the Os somehow lack that final piece to the puzzle that would
somehow vault them to the top of the Al-East.  In 92 and 93 they were
frustrated by the BJs and now it is the Yankees that stand between the
Os and first place...

Anyway, looks like some super battles for the wild card spot are going
to develop in both the leagues as the season winds down... and these
battles are going to affect many teams that are not division rivals..
like (as of now) Braves/Astros/Rockies/Giants ......

But I will be abroad for the most part of September and will sadly miss
these great battles ... The consolation is that I will back in time for
post season in Oct.
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Orioles lack the final sting...

Post by Michael McC » Tue, 26 Jul 1994 21:20:56

Quote:


>Subject: Orioles lack the final sting...
>Date: 24 Jul 1994 22:50:54 -0500
>It looks like for the past 2 seasons ( 1992 & 1993) and including this
>season, the Os somehow lack that final piece to the puzzle that would
>somehow vault them to the top of the Al-East.  In 92 and 93 they were
>frustrated by the BJs and now it is the Yankees that stand between the
>Os and first place...
>Anyway, looks like some super battles for the wild card spot are going
>to develop in both the leagues as the season winds down... and these
>battles are going to affect many teams that are not division rivals..
>like (as of now) Braves/Astros/Rockies/Giants ......
>But I will be abroad for the most part of September and will sadly miss
>these great battles ... The consolation is that I will back in time for
>post season in Oct.

I knew it! This is awful. It's still July and are we talking about pennant
races? No. We're talking about *wild card spots.* Bleacccch. I'm an O's fan,
but if they can't overtake the Yankees I couldn't care less about whatever
so-called "battle" they go through to get the wild-card spot. If they can't
overtake the Yankees, they don't deserve to be playing in October.

Michael McCoy
*************************

202-707-6539

"Be ashamed to die until you have won one victory for humanity."
--Horace Mann

"One must imagine Sisyphus happy."--Camus

*************************

 
 
 

Orioles lack the final sting...

Post by JiunWoei Tse » Wed, 27 Jul 1994 10:27:00

: I knew it! This is awful. It's still July and are we talking about pennant
: races? No. We're talking about *wild card spots.* Bleacccch. I'm an O's fan,
: but if they can't overtake the Yankees I couldn't care less about whatever
: so-called "battle" they go through to get the wild-card spot. If they can't
: overtake the Yankees, they don't deserve to be playing in October.

        I told a friend of mine about this post (a die-hard O's fan) and he
just wants to say that this guy here is not a true fan.  A true Orioles fan
follows his team through good and bad, not only through the victories but
through the droughts too.  He thinks it's not only too early to tell whether
a team can make it or not, it's blasphemy to count them down and out.  They
DO deserve to play in October.
        Argue among yourselves, don't come flaming at me about it.  If you
want to pass a message along I'll be happy to.  :)
        What do you think sirs?

Joe Tseng                       ___/|                aka Blonde Mentos Guy

NYYANKEES IN '94!!!!!  ----oOO =(___)= OOo------------  NYGIANTS IN '94!!!!!
                           '''    U    '''
        Marty: You mean to say that my mom has the hots for ME?!
        Doc: Exactly!!!
        Marty: Whoa -- this is heavy!!!
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                       "Push the button, Frank!"

 
 
 

Orioles lack the final sting...

Post by Charles W Saeg » Wed, 27 Jul 1994 10:36:27

Quote:
>I knew it! This is awful. It's still July and are we talking about pennant
>races? No. We're talking about *wild card spots.* Bleacccch. I'm an O's fan,
>but if they can't overtake the Yankees I couldn't care less about whatever
>so-called "battle" they go through to get the wild-card spot. If they can't
>overtake the Yankees, they don't deserve to be playing in October.

Agreed.  I'm a lifelong Orioles fan, but getting the wild-card spot, in my
mind, is sneaking in the back door and not really earning it.  If they're
gonna do this debauchery with letting teams that don't win something in,
they might as well just take the top four records of the league.  At least
in the old system you beat six other teams (again, one in seven teams as
winners is about the historical norm) to win.  There were some flukes,
like the 1973 Mets and the 1987 Twins, but those teams were better than
the 1994 Rangers.
 
 
 

Orioles lack the final sting...

Post by Spartacu » Wed, 27 Jul 1994 08:15:14


says:

Quote:
>: I knew it! This is awful. It's still July and are we talking about pennant
>: races? No. We're talking about *wild card spots.* Bleacccch. I'm an O's fan,
>: but if they can't overtake the Yankees I couldn't care less about whatever
>: so-called "battle" they go through to get the wild-card spot. If they can't
>: overtake the Yankees, they don't deserve to be playing in October.
>        I told a friend of mine about this post (a die-hard O's fan) and he
>just wants to say that this guy here is not a true fan.  A true Orioles fan
>follows his team through good and bad, not only through the victories but
>through the droughts too.

 Yes, but a true fan (such as myself) also remembers the 2 or 3 times last
year when the O's were .5 games out of first, only to fall back.  And a true
fan gets very frustrated when he/she/it know their favorite team is not playing
up to potential, when their team could've taken 3 of 4 from the A's this last
series.  You notice, however, the true fan is still rooting for their team.

Besides, this is not all the O's fault.  This all started when the Yankees
scored those 7 runs in the top of the 9th of the first Seattle game, and it's
gone downhill from there (well, from the O's perspective).

Spartacus

 
 
 

Orioles lack the final sting...

Post by Bob Mas » Wed, 27 Jul 1994 21:50:56


Quote:

>Subject: Re: Orioles lack the final sting...
>Date: Tue, 26 Jul 1994 01:36:27 GMT
>>I knew it! This is awful. It's still July and are we talking about pennant
>>races? No. We're talking about *wild card spots.* Bleacccch. I'm an O's fan,
>>but if they can't overtake the Yankees I couldn't care less about whatever
>>so-called "battle" they go through to get the wild-card spot. If they can't
>>overtake the Yankees, they don't deserve to be playing in October.
>Agreed.  I'm a lifelong Orioles fan, but getting the wild-card spot, in my
>mind, is sneaking in the back door and not really earning it.  If they're
>gonna do this debauchery with letting teams that don't win something in,
>they might as well just take the top four records of the league.  At least
>in the old system you beat six other teams (again, one in seven teams as
>winners is about the historical norm) to win.  There were some flukes,
>like the 1973 Mets and the 1987 Twins, but those teams were better than
>the 1994 Rangers.

I have mixed feelings about whether winning a division is "winning
something". It does give, say, the Dodgers a target to shoot for --
have a better record than the Giants, Padres and Rockies. That's all they
have to do to make the playoffs.

On the other hand, the fact that each team plays almost the same number of
games against every other team in the league makes divisional winners almost
meaningless. In fact, when I checked the schedule published this Spring
(don't know if it changed), the Expos play 13 games against LAST YEAR'S NL
East and 12 against LAST YEAR'S NL West (i.e. 13 against Pittsburgh, 12
against Atlanta). The 13-12 split means that one single division could have
the four teams with the best records in the league in it! It's hard to
justify allowing only the top one to playoff against the leader of a
pathetic division which has no team over .500, just because they "won
something". If the intra/extra division games ratio was greater (say around
15:10) then winning the division would be winning something.

The wild card is definitely a compromise, but it increases the possibility
of the two best teams meeting in the LCS, and I like that. It's also a move
toward the practice of other pro sports, where more than one team in a
division can make the playoffs. I don't mind that as long as it doesn't go
to the ridiculous extremes of hockey, where something like three-quarters of
the teams make the playoffs.

Bob

 
 
 

Orioles lack the final sting...

Post by Eric Smi » Thu, 28 Jul 1994 08:53:21


Quote:
>>I knew it! This is awful. It's still July and are we talking about pennant
>>races? No. We're talking about *wild card spots.* Bleacccch. I'm an O's fan,
>>but if they can't overtake the Yankees I couldn't care less about whatever
>>so-called "battle" they go through to get the wild-card spot. If they can't
>>overtake the Yankees, they don't deserve to be playing in October.
>Agreed.  I'm a lifelong Orioles fan, but getting the wild-card spot, in my
>mind, is sneaking in the back door and not really earning it.  If they're
>gonna do this debauchery with letting teams that don't win something in,
>they might as well just take the top four records of the league.  At least
>in the old system you beat six other teams (again, one in seven teams as
>winners is about the historical norm) to win.  There were some flukes,
>like the 1973 Mets and the 1987 Twins, but those teams were better than
>the 1994 Rangers.

Yeah, let's return to the glory days like 1984, when the AL West teams
battled each other for the league's sixth-best record, so that team could
get into a best-of-five series for the AL pennant. There may be one bad
team in the playoffs again this year, but at least we'll have three of
the top four as well. I doubt if the Orioles really agree with your
outlook; somehow I don't foresee them turning down the wild card spot
if that's where they end up, and I bet the stands will be as full for
that playoff as for any other.

This week Candlestick Park is seeing crowds of 50,000+ for a series
between two sub-.500 teams. (Especially amazing for night games at
Candlestick in July.) That wouldn't have happened last year, or any
other year probably. If that's weakening baseball I don't see how.
The baseball postseason system hasn't been "pure" for over a quarter
century; it's time to realize that change will come here too. But
hopefully it will be change that creates more interest in the sport,
leaving its structure solid so that the basic game can remain healthy.

-----
Eric Smith

CI$: 70262,3610

 
 
 

Orioles lack the final sting...

Post by Perry McDowe » Thu, 28 Jul 1994 14:00:09

Quote:


>>>I knew it! This is awful. It's still July and are we talking about pennant
>>>races? No. We're talking about *wild card spots.* Bleacccch. I'm an O's fan,
>>>but if they can't overtake the Yankees I couldn't care less about whatever
>>>so-called "battle" they go through to get the wild-card spot. If they can't
>>>overtake the Yankees, they don't deserve to be playing in October.

{Good arguments deleted to save bandwidth}

Quote:

>This week Candlestick Park is seeing crowds of 50,000+ for a series
>between two sub-.500 teams. (Especially amazing for night games at
>Candlestick in July.) That wouldn't have happened last year, or any
>other year probably. If that's weakening baseball I don't see how.
>The baseball postseason system hasn't been "pure" for over a quarter
>century; it's time to realize that change will come here too. But
>hopefully it will be change that creates more interest in the sport,
>leaving its structure solid so that the basic game can remain healthy.

If anyone has reason to like the change, its Giants' fans, after going
home empty last year with 103 wins and being a game and a half back
rather than approximately 12 games behind the Reds, Astros and Braves.
However, I'm a lifetime Giants fan and one of the 50,000+ on Monday
Night, and I'm still against the new system.

I dislike the idea of rewarding mediocrity.  I realize that the real
goal of the baseball season and playoffs is to make as much money for
two groups of greedy people, but I think the goal should be to find
and reward the best team in baseball.  Although occasionally the old
system did not do this, it was much more likely to do so than the new
system, just as the previous system without divisions was better
still.

In baseball, the best team wins less often than the other major
sports.  In football, 15 - 1 (.938) is a great but not astounding
record, while 60+ wins (.750) is common in the NBA.  This means that
it is much more likely for the better team to win a single game or
series in these sports than baseball.  This is not true in baseball;
for an example, look at the Giants sweep of the Expos in Montreal.  I
don't think you'll get too many arguments that the Giants are a better
team than the Expos, especially not good enough to take 4 straight in
Olympic Stadium, yet that feat was less surprising than Phoenix
beating Dallas in the NFL.

The second reason that I am against the new system is that it reduces
the value of a penant race.  Last year, if the Giants and the Braves
were in the same division and the new system were in place, it would
have been obvious that they were going to be two of the four playoff
teams by mid-August.  Thus, the last two series of the year between
them wouldn't have been worth much other than playoff momentum, and
the e***ment of the Giants collapse and comeback To be in it on the
last  day of the season would have been lost.  Even though
the Giants didn't make the playoffs last year, I wouldn't trade the
great penant race in August and September for being in a watered down
playoff system come October.

However, since the system is in effect, I'm hoping that there is no
strike, the Giants will have the best post-break record to justify
making the playoffs, and get the breaks to make the 'Series.

Perry McDowell
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        | I wish I could jump on a plane.
                        | So many nights I just dream of the ocean,
                        | God, I wish I was sailing again."
                        |                                   -Jimmy Buffett
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Orioles lack the final sting...

Post by Jonathan H Bernste » Thu, 28 Jul 1994 16:34:24



: >
: >>>I knew it! This is awful. It's still July and are we talking about pennant
: >>>races? No. We're talking about *wild card spots.* Bleacccch. I'm an O's fan,
: >>>but if they can't overtake the Yankees I couldn't care less about whatever
: >>>so-called "battle" they go through to get the wild-card spot. If they can't
: >>>overtake the Yankees, they don't deserve to be playing in October.

: {Good arguments deleted to save bandwidth}
: >
: >This week Candlestick Park is seeing crowds of 50,000+ for a series
: >between two sub-.500 teams. (Especially amazing for night games at
: >Candlestick in July.) That wouldn't have happened last year, or any
: >other year probably. If that's weakening baseball I don't see how.
: >The baseball postseason system hasn't been "pure" for over a quarter
: >century; it's time to realize that change will come here too. But
: >hopefully it will be change that creates more interest in the sport,
: >leaving its structure solid so that the basic game can remain healthy.
: >

: If anyone has reason to like the change, its Giants' fans, after going
: home empty last year with 103 wins and being a game and a half back
: rather than approximately 12 games behind the Reds, Astros and Braves.
: However, I'm a lifetime Giants fan and one of the 50,000+ on Monday
: Night, and I'm still against the new system.

: I dislike the idea of rewarding mediocrity.  I realize that the real
: goal of the baseball season and playoffs is to make as much money for
: two groups of greedy people, but I think the goal should be to find
: and reward the best team in baseball.  Although occasionally the old
: system did not do this, it was much more likely to do so than the new
: system, just as the previous system without divisions was better
: still.

: In baseball, the best team wins less often than the other major
: sports.  In football, 15 - 1 (.938) is a great but not astounding
: record, while 60+ wins (.750) is common in the NBA.  This means that
: it is much more likely for the better team to win a single game or
: series in these sports than baseball.  This is not true in baseball;
: for an example, look at the Giants sweep of the Expos in Montreal.  I
: don't think you'll get too many arguments that the Giants are a better
: team than the Expos, especially not good enough to take 4 straight in
: Olympic Stadium, yet that feat was less surprising than Phoenix
: beating Dallas in the NFL.

: The second reason that I am against the new system is that it reduces
: the value of a penant race.  Last year, if the Giants and the Braves
: were in the same division and the new system were in place, it would
: have been obvious that they were going to be two of the four playoff
: teams by mid-August.  Thus, the last two series of the year between
: them wouldn't have been worth much other than playoff momentum, and
: the e***ment of the Giants collapse and comeback To be in it on the
: last  day of the season would have been lost.  Even though
: the Giants didn't make the playoffs last year, I wouldn't trade the
: great penant race in August and September for being in a watered down
: playoff system come October.

: However, since the system is in effect, I'm hoping that there is no
: strike, the Giants will have the best post-break record to justify
: making the playoffs, and get the breaks to make the 'Series.

: Perry McDowell
: --------------------------------------------------------------------------

:                         | I wish I could jump on a plane.
:                         | So many nights I just dream of the ocean,
:                         | God, I wish I was sailing again."
:                         |                                   -Jimmy Buffett
: --------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Orioles lack the final sting...

Post by Eric Smi » Fri, 29 Jul 1994 00:21:14

Quote:

>I realize that the real
>goal of the baseball season and playoffs is to make as much money for
>two groups of greedy people, but I think the goal should be to find
>and reward the best team in baseball.  Although occasionally the old
>system did not do this, it was much more likely to do so than the new
>system, just as the previous system without divisions was better
>still.

The goal of postseason play has *always* been to raise money for the
teams involved and to create more fan interest that will translate
into more money. It has *never* been the goal of postseason play to
find and reward the best team in baseball. Ever.

Quote:
>The second reason that I am against the new system is that it reduces
>the value of a penant race.

As I've said before, there has not been a *pennant* race in over a
quarter of a century.

-----
Eric Smith

CI$: 70262,3610