Sugar Ray Leonard versus Sugar Ray Robinson who would have won?

Sugar Ray Leonard versus Sugar Ray Robinson who would have won?

Post by Alejandro Olagu » Sun, 30 Jun 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>Give me your pick in this diabetic fight? I personally do not know what
>to say except I could watch this fight in slow motion and not get bored.
>Sincerely,
>Jonathan Alexander

No contest at all. Leonard wouldn't be able to hit him at all.....

Alejandro

 
 
 

Sugar Ray Leonard versus Sugar Ray Robinson who would have won?

Post by E.G. La » Mon, 01 Jul 1996 04:00:00



Quote:
>Give me your pick in this diabetic fight? I personally do not know what
>to say except I could watch this fight in slow motion and not get bored.
>Sincerely,
>Jonathan Alexander

        Robinson's viciousness in the clinch will be a *** surprise
        for Leonard. This will cause Leonard to become angry; lose his cool.
        Robinson  with over 100 pro fights is a deadly son-of-a-***
        despite his sweetness. While Leonard is trying to look good, Robinson
        methodically sets him up. Moving him around the ring and ignoring
        Leonard's friendly overtures entirely. Since they're both
        equally clever it will be the little things that count. Robinson's
        rabbit-punches will began unraveling Leonard like a cheap suit. If
        necessary, Robinson will slip in a groin shot when the ref's not
        looking. In other words, Robinson wins via the ***. Leonard is
        either dropped or uses all his skills to stop from going down.

        Robinson vs Hagler/Hearns/Duran go the same route. Hagler is the
        toughest, goes with Robinson pretty even till the last few
        rounds when the accumulation of Robinson's old-time *** tactics
        begins ungluing Hagler setting him up for the first stoppage of
        his career.

        Duran goes down the way he did against Hearns: a clean, jaw-bustin'
        knock-out. Duran is precisely the kind of fighter Robinson met and
        demolished most of his career. Short, tough, hard-hitting, and brave.

        Hearns will be outsmarted, outboxed, and beat-up. He'll never really
        be in the fight so dazzled will he be by the slicker man. Robinson
        will be sneering as he breaks him down. There'll be something about the
        "hit-man" he just doesn't like. And Robinson beats Hearns at any
        weight. Remember, Robinson beat light-heavy champ Joey Maxim for 13
        rounds before succumbing to the god-awful heat.

        Look, Robinson beat LaMotta, one of the toughest middleweights ever,
        five times. Which of these other guys coulda done that?

        BARD

--
_______________________________________________________________________

BARD (aka Ed Garth Land)
Fly On-The-Wall, Inc.

 
 
 

Sugar Ray Leonard versus Sugar Ray Robinson who would have won?

Post by José Elias Flores Jr » Mon, 01 Jul 1996 04:00:00

I think Sugar Ray Robinson would have won, either at welterweight or
middleweight division. He punched harder and was a much more complete
fighter than Leonard. He was the best (Robinson) pound-for-pound of all
time.

Jos Elias

 
 
 

Sugar Ray Leonard versus Sugar Ray Robinson who would have won?

Post by dander.. » Mon, 01 Jul 1996 04:00:00

Quote:



> >Give me your pick in this diabetic fight? I personally do not know what
> >to say except I could watch this fight in slow motion and not get bored.
> >Sincerely,
> >Jonathan Alexander

>         Robinson's viciousness in the clinch will be a *** surprise
>         for Leonard. This will cause Leonard to become angry; lose his cool.
>         Robinson  with over 100 pro fights is a deadly son-of-a-***
>         despite his sweetness. While Leonard is trying to look good, Robinson
>         methodically sets him up. Moving him around the ring and ignoring
>         Leonard's friendly overtures entirely. Since they're both
>         equally clever it will be the little things that count. Robinson's
>         rabbit-punches will began unraveling Leonard like a cheap suit. If
>         necessary, Robinson will slip in a groin shot when the ref's not
>         looking. In other words, Robinson wins via the ***. Leonard is
>         either dropped or uses all his skills to stop from going down.

>         Robinson vs Hagler/Hearns/Duran go the same route. Hagler is the
>         toughest, goes with Robinson pretty even till the last few
>         rounds when the accumulation of Robinson's old-time *** tactics
>         begins ungluing Hagler setting him up for the first stoppage of
>         his career.

>         Duran goes down the way he did against Hearns: a clean, jaw-bustin'
>         knock-out. Duran is precisely the kind of fighter Robinson met and
>         demolished most of his career. Short, tough, hard-hitting, and brave.

>         Hearns will be outsmarted, outboxed, and beat-up. He'll never really
>         be in the fight so dazzled will he be by the slicker man. Robinson
>         will be sneering as he breaks him down. There'll be something about the
>         "hit-man" he just doesn't like. And Robinson beats Hearns at any
>         weight. Remember, Robinson beat light-heavy champ Joey Maxim for 13
>         rounds before succumbing to the god-awful heat.

>         Look, Robinson beat LaMotta, one of the toughest middleweights ever,
>         five times. Which of these other guys coulda done that?

>         BARD

> --
> _______________________________________________________________________

> BARD (aka Ed Garth Land)
> Fly On-The-Wall, Inc.I will not dispute your opinions, as I have never seen SRR and everyone

who has that I've spoken with would agree with you. My question is how
did he lose the fights that he did lose if he was that great?
 
 
 

Sugar Ray Leonard versus Sugar Ray Robinson who would have won?

Post by Ivan Weis » Mon, 01 Jul 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> I will not dispute your opinions, as I have never seen SRR and everyone
> who has that I've spoken with would agree with you. My question is how
> did he lose the fights that he did lose if he was that great?

Most of his losses came after age 38, long after he should have quit. He
needed the money.

Ivan Weiss
Seattle Times

Standard disclaimer

 
 
 

Sugar Ray Leonard versus Sugar Ray Robinson who would have won?

Post by Donald Arnon » Mon, 01 Jul 1996 04:00:00

If Both were 25 yrs old at the time, and it was 15Rds.
I would pick Leonard in a 15 rd. decision or 15 rd. KO.
--
Donald Arnone
http://home.aol.com/WldPapMny

 
 
 

Sugar Ray Leonard versus Sugar Ray Robinson who would have won?

Post by D.C.I » Tue, 02 Jul 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>If Both were 25 yrs old at the time, and it was 15Rds.
>I would pick Leonard in a 15 rd. decision or 15 rd. KO.
>--
>Donald Arnone
>http://home.aol.com/WldPapMny

                        Leonard had far less experience with
                        the 15 round fights and even less
                        experience in preparing for them.

                        DCI

 
 
 

Sugar Ray Leonard versus Sugar Ray Robinson who would have won?

Post by E.G. La » Wed, 03 Jul 1996 04:00:00



Quote:



>> >Give me your pick in this diabetic fight? I personally do not know what
>> >to say except I could watch this fight in slow motion and not get bored.
>> >Sincerely,
>> >Jonathan Alexander

>>         Look, Robinson beat LaMotta, one of the toughest middleweights ever,
>>         five times. Which of these other guys coulda done that?

>>         BARD

>> --
>> _______________________________________________________________________

>> BARD (aka Ed Garth Land)
>> Fly On-The-Wall, Inc.I will not dispute your opinions, as I have never seen SRR and everyone
>who has that I've spoken with would agree with you. My question is how
>did he lose the fights that he did lose if he was that great?

        First of all, "greatness" means something more than stats. Second,
        in 202 fights Robinson lost a total of 18 only two or
        which occurred during his prime; the others, same old story: the
        Sugar man didn't retire until he was 45 years of age.

        BARD
--
_______________________________________________________________________

BARD (aka Ed Garth Land)
Fly On-The-Wall, Inc.

 
 
 

Sugar Ray Leonard versus Sugar Ray Robinson who would have won?

Post by E.G. La » Wed, 03 Jul 1996 04:00:00



Quote:
>If Both were 25 yrs old at the time, and it was 15Rds.
>I would pick Leonard in a 15 rd. decision or 15 rd. KO.
>--
>Donald Arnone
>http://SportToday.org/

        Why?

        Leonard was nick-named after Robinson, not the other way around.

        Leonard studied Robinson. He knew Robinson was the master. Then
        there's all the things Robinson could do Leonard couldn't. Take
        the Leonard-Hagler, for instance. Robinson never fought like
        this. When he backed-up it was a step or two to get leverage, never
        to run or dance away.

        You better believe Hagler would have been in a world of trouble had
        it been Robinson in there. Robinson would have backed Hagler up!
        Although Robinson was the slickest boxer who ever laced gloves, he
        loved to brawl and beat all comers at it. I'm telling you, this was
        one fighting son-of-a-***. He'd have outslicked Leonard and then
        got in close and busted him up. And this was Robinson's technique --
        outbox his man, then get in close and bust him up. He'd do it all
        the time. It worked on everyone he met.

        And then there was the way this guy mastered every component of the
        game. He overlooked little. Always working, always working, even
        in the clinch he didn't stop.  In the LaMotta fights, for example,
        the clinch warfare was hellish. Look at the tapes, look at the rabbit
        punches, shoulder action, shifting of weight on to LaMotta's
        arms. All done so expertly the ref was too slow or too confused to
        see anything. Believe me, the blizzard of rabbit punches Robinson
        would give him would totally freak Leonard. Perhaps he'd try it
        himself, but what chance would a 50 or 60 fight showboater like Leonard
        have against a 200+ trench-warfare specialist like Robinson?

        The mastery of Robinson was different from Leonard's in this respect:
        Everything Robinson did had a deadly purpose. You gotta understand
        this. He not only had a killer instinct, but actually killed a
        fighter in the ring. Great fighters, like Ike Williams, for example,
        refused to fight him. Their reason? As Ike told me, "I just knew I
        couldn't beat him."

        BARD
--
_______________________________________________________________________

BARD (aka Ed Garth Land)
Fly On-The-Wall, Inc.

 
 
 

Sugar Ray Leonard versus Sugar Ray Robinson who would have won?

Post by Phrank Da Slugg » Thu, 04 Jul 1996 04:00:00


Quote:



> >If Both were 25 yrs old at the time, and it was 15Rds.
> >I would pick Leonard in a 15 rd. decision or 15 rd. KO.
> >--
> >Donald Arnone
> >http://home.aol.com/WldPapMny

>                         Leonard had far less experience with
>                         the 15 round fights and even less
>                         experience in preparing for them.

Right, and...oh, so, so much more...

My friend, if you seriously think the carefully-managed Leonard would have
beaten the greatest fighter ever, then I'd suggest you pick up some videos
of the REAL Sugar Ray and talk to some of the people who saw him live...

Phrank Da Slugger

 
 
 

Sugar Ray Leonard versus Sugar Ray Robinson who would have won?

Post by D.C.I » Thu, 04 Jul 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
Slugger) writes:





>> >If Both were 25 yrs old at the time, and it was 15Rds.
>> >I would pick Leonard in a 15 rd. decision or 15 rd. KO.
>> >--
>> >Donald Arnone
>> >http://home.aol.com/WldPapMny

>>                         Leonard had far less experience with
>>                         the 15 round fights and even less
>>                         experience in preparing for them.

>Right, and...oh, so, so much more...

>My friend, if you seriously think the carefully-managed Leonard would
>have beaten the greatest fighter ever, then I'd suggest you pick up
>some videos of the REAL Sugar Ray and talk to some of the people who
saw him live...

>Phrank Da Slugger

                        Phrank,

                        You sure are argumentive. Why? Your
                        making attribution to something
                        unsaid. Slow down, big guy, take a
                        deep breath. Ah, now ain't that
                        better? Sugar Ray Robinson would've
                        danced the night away with Leonard
                        getting the worst of it. I saw many,
                        many of Robinson's fights.

                        DCI

 
 
 

Sugar Ray Leonard versus Sugar Ray Robinson who would have won?

Post by Big D at » Thu, 04 Jul 1996 04:00:00

My feeling is that Ray Leonard was at his peak as a welterweight, and
Robinson was at his best as a middle.

Therefore, if they met at welter, I think Leonard would have had the edge,
though it would have been an excellent fight.

At middle, I don't think Leonard would have had a chance.  Robinson would
have killed him.

Big D at SC

 
 
 

Sugar Ray Leonard versus Sugar Ray Robinson who would have won?

Post by Arminiu » Fri, 05 Jul 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> > I will not dispute your opinions, as I have never seen SRR and everyone
> > who has that I've spoken with would agree with you. My question is how
> > did he lose the fights that he did lose if he was that great?

Probably due to sheer volume of fights, both sanctioned and exhibition.  In the
1990's, a fighter is considered active if he has three bouts a year.  In Robinson's
time, that total was absurd.  Robinson simply couldn't afford to pick and choose
his opponents like Leonard could, nor could he devote months of exclusive
preparation to a big fight.  He just trained as best he could and hoped for the
best, which was usually quite awesome.

Arminius

 
 
 

Sugar Ray Leonard versus Sugar Ray Robinson who would have won?

Post by Sanity Cruze » Fri, 05 Jul 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>My feeling is that Ray Leonard was at his peak as a welterweight, and
>Robinson was at his best as a middle.

Can you explain why Robinson was at his peak as a middleweight?  Is it
because he had a better record as a middleweight than as a welterweight?  
He didn't.  He was essentially a welterweight for about the first 10 years
of his career (about 113 fights) during which time he lost but once.  He
lost to Jake LaMotta.  Jake weighed 160 pounds to Robinson's 144.  During
the period prior to his loss to Turpin, Robinson compiled an incredible
record (129-1-2, if I read it correctly) mostly as a welterweight.  While
Robinson had a phenomenal career as a middleweight, it was as a
welterweight which he was virtually unbeatable as a fighter.

Quote:
>Therefore, if they met at welter, I think Leonard would have had the edge,
>though it would have been an excellent fight.

On what do you base your opinion?  Is it because you think of Robinson as
a middleweight because that's where he's listed in the record books?  Is
it because his most famous fights were mostly fought at the middleweight
limit or with middleweights.  Is Robinson being denigrated because he beat
up on 'bigger' men, even as a welterweight?

Quote:

>At middle, I don't think Leonard would have had a chance.  Robinson would
>have killed him.

>Big D at SC

I just don't see why the middleweight Robinson "kills" the middleweight
Leonard, and the welterweight Leonard edges the welterweight Robinson.  In
my opinion, you are looking at Robinson's career as a welterweight
myopically.  Or is it you just didn't have all of the facts straight?

                       The Sanity Cruzer

 
 
 

Sugar Ray Leonard versus Sugar Ray Robinson who would have won?

Post by Sanity Cruze » Fri, 05 Jul 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>Sorry I do not mean to insult but I read in several places that Robinson
>only fought 119 fights and he lost 19 or something like that.

Maybe you are thinking that he had 109 knockouts.  He is shown as having a
record of 175-19-6, with 109 ko's.  I trust that to be correct or at least
an accepted record.  The source is Phil Marder's "The Boxing Record Book",
by Fight Fax, Inc.

                         The Sanity Cruzer