Cassius Clay - Henry Cooper

Cassius Clay - Henry Cooper

Post by Patrick Keho » Sun, 09 Feb 2003 05:50:04


Cooper wasn't KOed he was TKO due to a cut... and Ali was really hurt by
that shot... though I too suspect he would have survived and won regardless
of the Dundee move... a cheap move in and of itself it sould be noted... but
Clay (Ali) was headed for greatness nevertheless...

P


Quote:
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2003 20:00:19 +1100, "HIGHPOINT"



> >> angelo dundee admited to tearing the glove open to give clay the extra
> >time
> >> needed to recover...
> >> if it wasn't for this injustice, cooper would have gone on to fight
liston

> >Yes I know, I heard Dundee say the same thing. My point is this though.
> >Ali/Clay got the extra time - but who's to say that he would have lost
the
> >fight with only the minutes rest. Frazier put Ali down at the deeper end
of
> >the first fight, and he was not able to finish the job. As it is, it is
> >pointless to say "Cooper was robbed" or anything like, when he was
stopped
> >less than 15mins later.

> >HIGHPOINT

> Possibly and most likely Ali did get a few extra minutes to recover
> but that doesn't take away the fact that Cooper couldn't close the
> deal.  He got in one good shot at the end of the 4th.  Then he himself
> got KOed in the 5th.  No way was Cooper "robbed".  If he was better
> than Ali, he should have been able to go on and win the fight.  He
> didn't.  And two fights later he lost on points to a journey man Roger
> Rischer. I doubt very much that Cooper would have been able to beat
> Sonny Liston.

> Further proof that Cooper wasn't good enough to beat Ali came in 1966
> when they met again and Ali TKOed him in the 6th.  Cooper than goes on
> to lose to Floyd Patterson in his next fight by KO in the 4th.

> One good shot, much like Rahman's to Lewis.  Only difference is Ali
> had a better chin, was a younger man, a far better fighter and a
> better corner than Lewis.

> Regards,

>           ////
>          (o o)
> -oOO--(_)--OOo-

> Marathon runners with bad footwear suffer the agony of defeat.
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Remove nospam to email me.

> Steve

 
 
 

Cassius Clay - Henry Cooper

Post by Patrick Keho » Sun, 09 Feb 2003 05:51:04

And Dundee was a major cheat for donig it too, that too should be noted...

p


Quote:
> this WAS said years after the fact and dundee did tear the glove because
> coming into the end of the break ali was in bad shape. the left hook
> happened towards the end of the round.
> hey...like he said, dundee did it to save his fighter...





> > >angelo dundee admited to tearing the glove open to give clay the extra
> time
> > >needed to recover...
> > >if it wasn't for this injustice, cooper would have gone on to fight
> liston

> > oh come on all this hogwash happened right after the cooper fight.

> > At that point, dundee TOOK CREDIT for ali surviving, but you see.

> > we didnt know just how ***ing great of a chin ali had at that point.

> > This is all before his layoff.

> > Go watch Frazier-Ali 1 again and again.  Watch Frazier's left hook.
> > Watch Ali go down.  That punch would have not only knocked out but
> > probably killed many men.

> > How did Ali get up?  how?  I still don't know.

> > We know based on his performance against Frazier that Ali could have
> > survived the Cooper fight without Angelo's help.  Sure at the time of
> > the Cooper fight we didn't know in fact.  In fact, most people thought
> > Ali had a glass jaw because he got hit so infrequently.  People thought
> > he was hiding a glass jaw with all this tricks and jive.  Ali himself
> > didn't know just how amazing of a chin he had.

> > Unfortunately or fortunately he did find out in the second half of his
> > career.  Fortunately, because he used that tool to become a champ
> > again.  Unfortuantely . . . because if he had been knocked out instead
> > of getting back on his feet, he wouldn't have suffered the brain damage
> > that renders him a walking zombie.

> > So.  Don't use stuff written at the time as meaning anything.  Don't
> > take stuff Dundee said after that fight.  Take stuff Dundee says 10
> > years later after both he and Ali realize that not only does Clay have
> > a chin, he has possibly the best chin of any heavyweight champion of
> > all time.

> > There is a lot you can be hating Ali on.  His gifts vs Norton.  His
> > philandering.  Calling Frazier an Uncle Tom.  But don't *** about the
> > Cooper fight, that's the wrong target.  If you wanna be hating on the
> > Greatest please pick a better target.  Thanks.

> > --- edt


 
 
 

Cassius Clay - Henry Cooper

Post by mark » Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:01:23

You may be right....perhaps Cooper should most graciously thank Ali for
saving him from an inevitable mauling!!

--


Quote:
> angelo dundee admited to tearing the glove open to give clay the extra
time
> needed to recover...
> if it wasn't for this injustice, cooper would have gone on to fight liston





> > > Right now a 2 part documentary on Ali is on PBS.

> > > When Ali or Cassius Clay as he was then known fought Henry Cooper ,
Clay
> > > was knocked down hard in the fourth round by the 190lb Cooper's famous
> > > left hook........ (snip)

> > A very decent point. It is however a testament to Ali's skill and
> greatness
> > when people start to debate fights he ALMOST lost, or when this MIGHT
have
> > happened.

> > As for the Cooper fight, I've heard people say, what if it happened at
the
> > beginning of the round? It didn't, it happened at the end of a three
> minute
> > round (No doubt any fighter is much more tired at the end of a given
round
> > then the beginning). What if his glove had not been ripped open? Well
then
> > what's to say Ali being Ali, could not recover on his feet, and avoid
the
> > same punch in the interim, hell, what if he was hit again? Frazier
> couldn't
> > KO him, my money would be on him getting up.

> > Point is, no one can logically argue that Ali should have lost that
fight.
> > Ali was knocked down from a great left hook from a very good fighter,
and
> > then proceeded to stop his opponent. Credit to the Greatest for being
> taken
> > deep and still getting the win.

> > HIGHPOINT


 
 
 

Cassius Clay - Henry Cooper

Post by halo » Fri, 14 Feb 2003 03:56:22

in the fight as i saw it cooper was robbed of a victory by dundee's
cheeting. just because it's THE ali doesn't correct what happened. funny
thing is when cooper talks about it he does so with no venom at all. classy
guy ol' enry


Quote:
> You may be right....perhaps Cooper should most graciously thank Ali for
> saving him from an inevitable mauling!!

> --



> > angelo dundee admited to tearing the glove open to give clay the extra
> time
> > needed to recover...
> > if it wasn't for this injustice, cooper would have gone on to fight
liston





> > > > Right now a 2 part documentary on Ali is on PBS.

> > > > When Ali or Cassius Clay as he was then known fought Henry Cooper ,
> Clay
> > > > was knocked down hard in the fourth round by the 190lb Cooper's
famous
> > > > left hook........ (snip)

> > > A very decent point. It is however a testament to Ali's skill and
> > greatness
> > > when people start to debate fights he ALMOST lost, or when this MIGHT
> have
> > > happened.

> > > As for the Cooper fight, I've heard people say, what if it happened at
> the
> > > beginning of the round? It didn't, it happened at the end of a three
> > minute
> > > round (No doubt any fighter is much more tired at the end of a given
> round
> > > then the beginning). What if his glove had not been ripped open? Well
> then
> > > what's to say Ali being Ali, could not recover on his feet, and avoid
> the
> > > same punch in the interim, hell, what if he was hit again? Frazier
> > couldn't
> > > KO him, my money would be on him getting up.

> > > Point is, no one can logically argue that Ali should have lost that
> fight.
> > > Ali was knocked down from a great left hook from a very good fighter,
> and
> > > then proceeded to stop his opponent. Credit to the Greatest for being
> > taken
> > > deep and still getting the win.

> > > HIGHPOINT

 
 
 

Cassius Clay - Henry Cooper

Post by SuperCal » Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:18:15

He knew it was nothing unsual to be robbed in a fight against ali, and
decided it wasn't worth getting bitter over


Quote:
> in the fight as i saw it cooper was robbed of a victory by dundee's
> cheeting. just because it's THE ali doesn't correct what happened. funny
> thing is when cooper talks about it he does so with no venom at all.
classy
> guy ol' enry



> > You may be right....perhaps Cooper should most graciously thank Ali for
> > saving him from an inevitable mauling!!

> > --



> > > angelo dundee admited to tearing the glove open to give clay the extra
> > time
> > > needed to recover...
> > > if it wasn't for this injustice, cooper would have gone on to fight
> liston





> > > > > Right now a 2 part documentary on Ali is on PBS.

> > > > > When Ali or Cassius Clay as he was then known fought Henry Cooper
,
> > Clay
> > > > > was knocked down hard in the fourth round by the 190lb Cooper's
> famous
> > > > > left hook........ (snip)

> > > > A very decent point. It is however a testament to Ali's skill and
> > > greatness
> > > > when people start to debate fights he ALMOST lost, or when this
MIGHT
> > have
> > > > happened.

> > > > As for the Cooper fight, I've heard people say, what if it happened
at
> > the
> > > > beginning of the round? It didn't, it happened at the end of a three
> > > minute
> > > > round (No doubt any fighter is much more tired at the end of a given
> > round
> > > > then the beginning). What if his glove had not been ripped open?
Well
> > then
> > > > what's to say Ali being Ali, could not recover on his feet, and
avoid
> > the
> > > > same punch in the interim, hell, what if he was hit again? Frazier
> > > couldn't
> > > > KO him, my money would be on him getting up.

> > > > Point is, no one can logically argue that Ali should have lost that
> > fight.
> > > > Ali was knocked down from a great left hook from a very good
fighter,
> > and
> > > > then proceeded to stop his opponent. Credit to the Greatest for
being
> > > taken
> > > > deep and still getting the win.

> > > > HIGHPOINT

 
 
 

Cassius Clay - Henry Cooper

Post by seles-.. » Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:20:59

I assume ppv will be showing it before Tysons fight. but what about
showtime?
i want to see how tough this girl really is.