Robin Dodson's comment on Karen Corr's stance

Robin Dodson's comment on Karen Corr's stance

Post by lfiguero » Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:00:00


Tom, I'm sure it's useful and may help some players a lot.  But I'm not sure
you can get to your optimal stance from there.  It could, IMO, even end up
being somewhat misleading.  Here's the thing, as I see it and after years of
experimentation:  for the average player who is not some savant running a
hundred balls four months after first picking up a cue, getting into
shooting position is a process, an organic whole.  What you're doing while
looking at the shot, where you're holding your cue stick as you look, the
motion you use to get into shooting position, at what point you establish
contact between bridge hand and shaft, etc. create a chain reaction of body
mechanics that all end up contributing to what ultimately ends up
constituting your stroke.  In other words, I don't think you can "take a
snapshot" and say, "that's what I need to do."  It's more like having to do
a motion study, or studying a film clip and emulating that.

One other thing I've found over time is that any time I make a change to my
mechanics that does not feel natural, it eventually breaks down and fails.
If the preshot routine is unnatural, too complicated, or takes to long, for
me at least, it is a change doomed to failure.

Lou Figueroa


Quote:

> < snipped Pat's excellent observations on open vs. closed
> stance, as related to shot alignment >

> Here's another good thing to try. I've been using this a lot
> the past few months. It's slows me down some, so I tend to use
> it only on difficult shots.

> Approach the shot in your normal fashion. Before you bend down
> into your stance, hold the stick up in front of you like
> you're lining up the shot two feet up from the table. In other
> words, hold the stick out in front of you while you're in
> position to bend down and shoot, and sight your shot alignment
> from that position (it will get more accurate when you
> actually go down).

> The trick to this method is to get the stick out in front of
> you in a neutral way (meaning twisting up your body parts as
> little as possible), and then actually align the stick to the
> shot line by MOVING YOUR FEET. Then, when your stick is in
> decent alignment AND your body is neutral, bend down into your
> stance and make your micro adjustments and shoot.

> This is also a good method for FINDING your own "optimal"
> stance angle, ie, where do your feet naturally end up when you
> arrange  yourself to bend down from neutral?

> This has been enlightening for me. I'd sure appreciate hearing
> about whether & how it strikes others.

> tom simpson

 
 
 

Robin Dodson's comment on Karen Corr's stance

Post by Fong Chie » Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:00:00

Isn't this what you're supposed to do for every shot? Look from the left
and right, but always approach a shot straight on. Well, at least that's
what I learnt from snooker. Whenever I get pissed while playing 9-ball I
tend to forget to do this and it's one of the factors that drag my game
down. (besides being off my face)

Quote:

> > ====================
> There's a snooker player here in St. Louis that steps back from the
> table about 3 or 4 steps.  He then walks straight toward the shot, bends
> down, strokes, and fires.  He does this on every shot.  He is quite
> remarkable on his shoots. I tried it, and can see some merit in it, but
> I don't think it's for me.

--
Chill, man
Fong

 
 
 

Robin Dodson's comment on Karen Corr's stance

Post by Fong Chie » Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:00:00

I have tried this stance before and you're right, it does hurt at first.
But another thing crossed my mind while reading your post. As men, it is
quite usual that we have to bend over (no pun) more than women as we're
taller. So if you have both legs straight, wouldn't it be harder to get
really low down on the shot, like in snooker? I'm short, so it doesn't
matter, but I imagine it might be for the taller players. I have stuck
to my one-leg-bent stance and it's more comfortable. Do you get any back
pain from using a straight stance?

Quote:

> I was taught the Fisher/Corr stance during pool school. It took a while to
> get used to and my hamstrings were sore for a while but it is now second
> nature. Straight legs are part of it but the biggie is to be open. Square to
> the shot. Or at least as square as you can be and still be comfortable.
> Believe me, if you are used to a traditional stance and you open up and
> straighten your legs and get down on the ball so your cue is riding against
> you chest, you will be sore at first. It goes away. Once you get used to it
> and get comfortable you won't go back because everything else seems
> unstable.

> Does it help my game? I'm too new to know. I do know that my fundamentals
> are more solid now than they were before lessons.

> Otto

--
Chill, man
Fong

 
 
 

Robin Dodson's comment on Karen Corr's stance

Post by Otto » Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:00:00

I've struggled with lower back problems(flexibility related) for years.
Strangely enough I have had no problems since I  started playing more pool.
It seems to limber me up some. I'm sure it will get more difficult to get
down as low as the years go by. Part of the reason I get down as low is to
ride the cue along my upper body. It acts like a guide and stabilizes it.

I use an open stance but not totally square in order to get my hip out of
the way and still allow the arm to hang straight down. My left leg is not
locked straight but my right leg is. My legs are spread more than normal. I
feel stable and comfortable.

Here is some text from my syllabus for pool school.

"The function of the stance is to provide a stable base for the eyes and
body."

"A good stance is balanced and comfortable with little or no movement. Eyes
should be positioned vertically over the line of stroke, such that what is
perceived is accurate."

"As long as you are comfortable, balanced, and can sight along the line of
the cue accurately, then you've got a good stance."

Take it for what it is worth.

Otto


Quote:
>Do you get any back
> pain from using a straight stance?

 
 
 

Robin Dodson's comment on Karen Corr's stance

Post by tom simpso » Sun, 22 Oct 2000 04:00:00

Lou,

I of course agree about the process being an organic whole.
And I agree that it should all feel natural. What I'm
suggesting trying is an alignment method that is BASED ON
feeling natural & neutral. I'm saying move your whole body (by
moving your feet) until you feel you are standing neutrally
while able to comfortably see the aim line. When I take this
"natural" approach to stance alignment, I find my stance is a
little more open, and more comfortable. I realized that my
normal, habitual stance angle has me twisted up more than
necessary. My belief is that the less twisting up, the better.
Don't fight yourself.

        tom simpson

On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:34:08 GMT, "lfigueroa"

::Tom, I'm sure it's useful and may help some players a lot.  But I'm not sure
::you can get to your optimal stance from there.  It could, IMO, even end up
::being somewhat misleading.  Here's the thing, as I see it and after years of
::experimentation:  for the average player who is not some savant running a
::hundred balls four months after first picking up a cue, getting into
::shooting position is a process, an organic whole.  What you're doing while
::looking at the shot, where you're holding your cue stick as you look, the
::motion you use to get into shooting position, at what point you establish
::contact between bridge hand and shaft, etc. create a chain reaction of body
::mechanics that all end up contributing to what ultimately ends up
::constituting your stroke.  In other words, I don't think you can "take a
::snapshot" and say, "that's what I need to do."  It's more like having to do
::a motion study, or studying a film clip and emulating that.
::
::One other thing I've found over time is that any time I make a change to my
::mechanics that does not feel natural, it eventually breaks down and fails.
::If the preshot routine is unnatural, too complicated, or takes to long, for
::me at least, it is a change doomed to failure.
::
::Lou Figueroa
::

::>
::> < snipped Pat's excellent observations on open vs. closed
::> stance, as related to shot alignment >
::>
::>
::> Here's another good thing to try. I've been using this a lot
::> the past few months. It's slows me down some, so I tend to use
::> it only on difficult shots.
::>
::> Approach the shot in your normal fashion. Before you bend down
::> into your stance, hold the stick up in front of you like
::> you're lining up the shot two feet up from the table. In other
::> words, hold the stick out in front of you while you're in
::> position to bend down and shoot, and sight your shot alignment
::> from that position (it will get more accurate when you
::> actually go down).
::>
::> The trick to this method is to get the stick out in front of
::> you in a neutral way (meaning twisting up your body parts as
::> little as possible), and then actually align the stick to the
::> shot line by MOVING YOUR FEET. Then, when your stick is in
::> decent alignment AND your body is neutral, bend down into your
::> stance and make your micro adjustments and shoot.
::>
::> This is also a good method for FINDING your own "optimal"
::> stance angle, ie, where do your feet naturally end up when you
::> arrange  yourself to bend down from neutral?
::>
::> This has been enlightening for me. I'd sure appreciate hearing
::> about whether & how it strikes others.
::>
::> tom simpson
::

 
 
 

Robin Dodson's comment on Karen Corr's stance

Post by lfiguero » Wed, 25 Oct 2000 04:00:00

Well, I think we're in somewhat sorta kinda agreement.  Particularly about
the less twist is better part.  I guess my question would be: what causes
your normal/habitual stance to become twisted?

Lou Figueroa


Quote:
> Lou,

> I of course agree about the process being an organic whole.
> And I agree that it should all feel natural. What I'm
> suggesting trying is an alignment method that is BASED ON
> feeling natural & neutral. I'm saying move your whole body (by
> moving your feet) until you feel you are standing neutrally
> while able to comfortably see the aim line. When I take this
> "natural" approach to stance alignment, I find my stance is a
> little more open, and more comfortable. I realized that my
> normal, habitual stance angle has me twisted up more than
> necessary. My belief is that the less twisting up, the better.
> Don't fight yourself.

> tom simpson

> On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:34:08 GMT, "lfigueroa"

> ::Tom, I'm sure it's useful and may help some players a lot.  But I'm not
sure
> ::you can get to your optimal stance from there.  It could, IMO, even end
up
> ::being somewhat misleading.  Here's the thing, as I see it and after
years of
> ::experimentation:  for the average player who is not some savant running
a
> ::hundred balls four months after first picking up a cue, getting into
> ::shooting position is a process, an organic whole.  What you're doing
while
> ::looking at the shot, where you're holding your cue stick as you look,
the
> ::motion you use to get into shooting position, at what point you
establish
> ::contact between bridge hand and shaft, etc. create a chain reaction of
body
> ::mechanics that all end up contributing to what ultimately ends up
> ::constituting your stroke.  In other words, I don't think you can "take a
> ::snapshot" and say, "that's what I need to do."  It's more like having to
do
> ::a motion study, or studying a film clip and emulating that.
> ::
> ::One other thing I've found over time is that any time I make a change to
my
> ::mechanics that does not feel natural, it eventually breaks down and
fails.
> ::If the preshot routine is unnatural, too complicated, or takes to long,
for
> ::me at least, it is a change doomed to failure.
> ::
> ::Lou Figueroa
> ::


> ::>
> ::> < snipped Pat's excellent observations on open vs. closed
> ::> stance, as related to shot alignment >
> ::>
> ::>
> ::> Here's another good thing to try. I've been using this a lot
> ::> the past few months. It's slows me down some, so I tend to use
> ::> it only on difficult shots.
> ::>
> ::> Approach the shot in your normal fashion. Before you bend down
> ::> into your stance, hold the stick up in front of you like
> ::> you're lining up the shot two feet up from the table. In other
> ::> words, hold the stick out in front of you while you're in
> ::> position to bend down and shoot, and sight your shot alignment
> ::> from that position (it will get more accurate when you
> ::> actually go down).
> ::>
> ::> The trick to this method is to get the stick out in front of
> ::> you in a neutral way (meaning twisting up your body parts as
> ::> little as possible), and then actually align the stick to the
> ::> shot line by MOVING YOUR FEET. Then, when your stick is in
> ::> decent alignment AND your body is neutral, bend down into your
> ::> stance and make your micro adjustments and shoot.
> ::>
> ::> This is also a good method for FINDING your own "optimal"
> ::> stance angle, ie, where do your feet naturally end up when you
> ::> arrange  yourself to bend down from neutral?
> ::>
> ::> This has been enlightening for me. I'd sure appreciate hearing
> ::> about whether & how it strikes others.
> ::>
> ::> tom simpson
> ::

 
 
 

Robin Dodson's comment on Karen Corr's stance

Post by Roy & Robin Dodso » Fri, 27 Oct 2000 04:00:00

Well Hello Everyone,

     I just came on line and saw my name all over the place. WOW, there is
sure allot of talk, but truth has it I, Robin Dodson never did say Karen
helped me with my stance. I don't know if I could get my hips  in that
position. And if she did my game  improved 30%!? I gotta believe I would have
snapped off a tournament by now. 30% that's huge!
Anyway it's great talkin' with all you die hard pool buffs. It wasn't me
talkin'.
Take care, Robin

Quote:

> I believe Bob is correct. I had caught this thread before watching the
> match, as I had taped it. So I was paying close attention for the remarks
> about Karen's stance. They were indeed made by Dawn Hopkin's when she had
> joined Mitch and Robin in the booth for a few minutes. Not truly important
> but...

 
 
 

Robin Dodson's comment on Karen Corr's stance

Post by Mark » Fri, 27 Oct 2000 20:33:31

Welome Robin.  It's nice to see another pro posting.

Mark0



Quote:
> Well Hello Everyone,

>      I just came on line and saw my name all over the place. WOW, there is
> sure allot of talk, but truth has it I, Robin Dodson never did say Karen
> helped me with my stance. I don't know if I could get my hips  in that
> position. And if she did my game  improved 30%!? I gotta believe I would
have
> snapped off a tournament by now. 30% that's huge!
> Anyway it's great talkin' with all you die hard pool buffs. It wasn't me
> talkin'.
> Take care, Robin


> > I believe Bob is correct. I had caught this thread before watching the
> > match, as I had taped it. So I was paying close attention for the
remarks
> > about Karen's stance. They were indeed made by Dawn Hopkin's when she
had
> > joined Mitch and Robin in the booth for a few minutes. Not truly
important
> > but...

 
 
 

Robin Dodson's comment on Karen Corr's stance

Post by Warren Lushi » Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:04:12


Quote:
> Well Hello Everyone,

>      I just came on line and saw my name all over the place. WOW, there is
> sure allot of talk, but truth has it I, Robin Dodson never did say Karen
> helped me with my stance. I don't know if I could get my hips  in that
> position.

i believe myself and a couple of others corrected the original post by saying it
was dawn hopkins who made that claim while visiting the booth towards the end of
the match.  i think it was an easy mistake to make, as the player's (yourself
and dawn hopkins) faces were not on the screen at the time, but rather
commenting while the match was being taped.

Quote:
> And if she did my game  improved 30%!? I gotta believe I would have
> snapped off a tournament by now. 30% that's huge!

well, if memory serves me, i think a week before espn (or espn2) had a finals
match between yourself and allison fisher.  that is pretty close to snapping one
off!  you also attributed your recent success to giving lessons, thereby
indirectly getting back to your own fundamentals.  care to comment further?
(btw, i have also felt teaching is helpful for the teacher as well as the
student, no matter the endeavor -- you REALLY have to KNOW something to teach
it, and it forces you to question your own knowledge and actually relearn
things, or learn new things (especially is you have students who ask alot of
questions (a good thing imo))).

warren..

 
 
 

Robin Dodson's comment on Karen Corr's stance

Post by Roy & Robin Dodso » Sat, 28 Oct 2000 01:16:03

Very true! Teaching has brought me back to the fundamentals. More than anything I
began to question myself on what I was teaching. What I mean is, practice what I
preach! As soon as I started doing what I was teaching my game came right back. And
of course so did my confidence. But I'm struggling again. I just don't play allot of
pool.  This last tournament was embarrassing for me. I have one of two choices now,
retire and move onto marketing my product the Frog. Or practice. I just asked a
young up and coming 19 year old girl that I went to the hill with if she would like
to practice 3 days a week from 10-3. Its been along time since I've done that, I'm
usually good for 15 minutes. Anyway, will see what happens I don't think my game is
gone but definitely misplaced! The girls name is Cassie, keep your eyes open for her
she has a great game. When I asked her how much she played she said at least 10
hours a day. I new she would help motivate me and I in turn can help her get over
the fear of players like me.
Take care,
Robin
Quote:


> > Well Hello Everyone,

> >      I just came on line and saw my name all over the place. WOW, there is
> > sure allot of talk, but truth has it I, Robin Dodson never did say Karen
> > helped me with my stance. I don't know if I could get my hips  in that
> > position.

> i believe myself and a couple of others corrected the original post by saying it
> was dawn hopkins who made that claim while visiting the booth towards the end of
> the match.  i think it was an easy mistake to make, as the player's (yourself
> and dawn hopkins) faces were not on the screen at the time, but rather
> commenting while the match was being taped.

> > And if she did my game  improved 30%!? I gotta believe I would have
> > snapped off a tournament by now. 30% that's huge!

> well, if memory serves me, i think a week before espn (or espn2) had a finals
> match between yourself and allison fisher.  that is pretty close to snapping one
> off!  you also attributed your recent success to giving lessons, thereby
> indirectly getting back to your own fundamentals.  care to comment further?
> (btw, i have also felt teaching is helpful for the teacher as well as the
> student, no matter the endeavor -- you REALLY have to KNOW something to teach
> it, and it forces you to question your own knowledge and actually relearn
> things, or learn new things (especially is you have students who ask alot of
> questions (a good thing imo))).

> warren..

 
 
 

Robin Dodson's comment on Karen Corr's stance

Post by BaNDiTgr » Sat, 28 Oct 2000 02:25:28

Quote:
>But I'm struggling again. I just don't play allot of
>pool.  This last tournament was embarrassing for me.

Robin,

I hope you're not referring to the tourney at the LA Expo. I was there and
caught 2 of your matches. If you think you were struggling, well, I hope to
"struggle" like that someday! Hopefully your practice sessions will bring your
game back to where you feel it needs to be. I personally hope you chose not to
retire. I look forward to watching you play at the next WPBA event I'm able to
attend.

A dedicated fan,
Bandit

 
 
 

Robin Dodson's comment on Karen Corr's stance

Post by J Du » Sun, 29 Oct 2000 09:41:27

Sorry Robin, I was watching the Valley Forge Fisher/Corr finals and you were
in the booth with Mitch and Dawn Hopkins.  They had voices over the coverage
and I thought it was your voice.  Turns out someone who taped the event
later said it was Dawn who made the comment..... but the thread and
discussion lives on with your name attached.

I did have the same question that you addressed, though...... if any pro had
a 30% improvement, wouldn't that escalate them to just about Tiger Woods
status over the field?

--Jim



Quote:
> Well Hello Everyone,

>      I just came on line and saw my name all over the place. WOW, there is
> sure allot of talk, but truth has it I, Robin Dodson never did say Karen
> helped me with my stance. I don't know if I could get my hips  in that
> position. And if she did my game  improved 30%!? I gotta believe I would
have
> snapped off a tournament by now. 30% that's huge!
> Anyway it's great talkin' with all you die hard pool buffs. It wasn't me
> talkin'.
> Take care, Robin


> > I believe Bob is correct. I had caught this thread before watching the
> > match, as I had taped it. So I was paying close attention for the
remarks
> > about Karen's stance. They were indeed made by Dawn Hopkin's when she
had
> > joined Mitch and Robin in the booth for a few minutes. Not truly
important
> > but...