Why do we and they (the pros) miss those easy shots?

Why do we and they (the pros) miss those easy shots?

Post by ernesto-santama.. » Sun, 22 Mar 2009 01:40:58


Why do we and they (the pros) miss those easy shots?

Its a question that has troubled many players for many years.
Watching pro matches its astonishing how often they miss dead-easy
shots just as we commonly and frustratingly do too often.

Whenever its discussed the usual reasons are offered: took my eye off
the ball, was watching the position more than the shot, the pressure
got to him, that pockets strange, forgot to chalk, I stood up, etc.

Most often it seems to be just plain taking the shot for granted
because it was so easy, or similarly -- careless PSR for the same
reason.  Maybe its frequently something more psychological, as if we
want to punish ourselves, strange as that sounds.

Any thoughts?

Ernie

 
 
 

Why do we and they (the pros) miss those easy shots?

Post by John Blac » Sun, 22 Mar 2009 04:11:41


Quote:
> Why do we and they (the pros) miss those easy shots?

> It=3Fs a question that has troubled many players for many years.
> Watching pro matches it=3Fs astonishing how often they miss dead-easy
> shots just as we commonly and frustratingly do too often.

> Whenever it=3Fs discussed the usual reasons are offered: took my eye off
> the ball, was watching the position more than the shot, the pressure
> got to him, that pocket=3Fs strange, forgot to chalk, I stood up, etc.

> Most often it seems to be just plain taking the shot for granted
> because it was so easy, or similarly -- careless PSR for the same
> reason.  Maybe it=3Fs frequently something more psychological, as if we
> want to punish ourselves, strange as that sounds.

> Any thoughts?

Its probably all of those things at different times but its also plain
probablilities.  Let's say I'm lined up on a pretty hard shot and I figure
that for me I have a 30% - 40% chance of making it.  Well, if I miss it,
then I'm not terribly surprised.  But what about a fairly easy shot but not
a total hanger that I make 90% of the time.  Well, I'm still supposed to
miss one out of ten of those but we are more surprised and upset at
ourselves when we miss them.  Then you have the "easy" shots which you
figure you should "never" miss.  But never is never really never (I guess
this statement contradicts itself, ha ha).  You might actually be 98% on
them or something, but in the course of a night or tournament, you are
shooting hundreds of balls so missing 2 out of 100 of those is normal.  
Doesn't mean you're not going to be upset and bewildered when it happens
though...

John Black

 
 
 

Why do we and they (the pros) miss those easy shots?

Post by lfiguero » Tue, 24 Mar 2009 00:48:07

Sometimes we just miss.  I know that that if it isn't just a case of
outright dogging it, I sometimes miss because I've just made a
miscalculation in speed and/or spin.

I also think some misses come from most players not really thinking out,
in depth, their body mechanics.  Subsequently, they just setup wrong for
certain types of shots, or shoot certain shots in a less than ideal manner.

The punishing ourselves part can also come into play.  I know that for
my highest "make" percentage or certain shots, I have to use a
particular bridge, or make a change in my setup to optimize my chances.
  But I'll go and shoot the shot with another bridge, or without taking
the time to setup right, because I somehow feel (read: ego) that I
should be able to make the shot without the extra effort.  But if you do
that often enough in a money game, you eventually come to your senses :-)

Lou Figueroa

Quote:

> Why do we and they (the pros) miss those easy shots?

> Its a question that has troubled many players for many years.
> Watching pro matches its astonishing how often they miss dead-easy
> shots just as we commonly and frustratingly do too often.

> Whenever its discussed the usual reasons are offered: took my eye off
> the ball, was watching the position more than the shot, the pressure
> got to him, that pockets strange, forgot to chalk, I stood up, etc.

> Most often it seems to be just plain taking the shot for granted
> because it was so easy, or similarly -- careless PSR for the same
> reason.  Maybe its frequently something more psychological, as if we
> want to punish ourselves, strange as that sounds.

> Any thoughts?

> Ernie


 
 
 

Why do we and they (the pros) miss those easy shots?

Post by Ron Shepar » Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:46:39

In article

Quote:

> [...]
>   But I'll go and shoot the shot with another bridge, or without taking
> the time to setup right, because I somehow feel (read: ego) that I
> should be able to make the shot without the extra effort. [...]

The miss is the "effect", but there are multiple "causes".  In
addition to the above, which I think of as "false confidence", there
is also impatience and laziness.  I think I'm particularly
vulnerable to this.  I set up for a shot, and there's something that
doesn't feel right (foot position, body position, bridge position,
head position, elbow alignment, etc.), but I think to myself that
it's alright, I'm "close enough" and the shot will probably go
anyway, so I go ahead and pull the trigger.  It is just plain old
laziness.  When I'm shooting well, I don't do this, it is mostly
when I'm a little off.  In fact, when I'm shooting well, I actually
seem to enjoy the whole process of shooting, including lining up the
shots, so I don't even consider at some subconscious level skipping
over that chance to line up the shot the right way.

There is also a kind of self-consciousness that I think affects
players, particularly league players or first-time tournament
players.  This isn't exactly "ego", or "false confidence", it is
slightly different.  It is that feeling that other people are
watching you play, so you sort of pretend to go through the steps of
lining up the shot, getting into stance, and executing, but you
really didn't do those steps, you just pretended to.  So on your
practice strokes, you don't really know where you are supposed to
hit the object ball, and your stance is all out of whack, and you
might not even know exactly where the cue ball needs to go
afterwards, but your teammates are all watching you so you don't
want to get up and do things right because it might show some kind
of weakness or indecisiveness or uncertainty.  In reality, it is the
fact that you know you aren't lined up, yet you are considering
shooting anyway, that is the real weakness in your technique and
that you should be fighting.  I am mostly (not always, but mostly)
past this for league and tournament play, but I expect this will
affect me if I ever play a game recorded for TV.

$.02 -Ron Shepard

 
 
 

Why do we and they (the pros) miss those easy shots?

Post by ernesto-santama.. » Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:49:53

But I'll go and shoot the shot with another bridge, or without
taking
the time to setup right, because I somehow feel (read: ego) that I
should be able to make the shot without the extra effort.
------------------------------------------------------------------
That in fact, gets right to the heart of an all-too-common kind of
unwitting self-sabotage, and one that it would seem, should be
preventable:

-- Its a quite specific tangent to what I loosely referred to as a
kind of psychological self-punishment.  The common case of through
years of experience really knowing what will optimize your chances on
every kind of shot (all the micro adjustments that have always worked
well for *that* shot), then doing otherwise.

Then youre down on the shot and unavoidably and necessarily
processing (somewhere in your mind) the fact that youre carelessly
not doing what is optimal.  And you yourself become the agent of those
*** Pool Gods and bingo -- you blow the shot.

Probably accounts for more than half of all missed dead-easy shots.

Whats the solution or cure?  Maybe, as the bent-nose guys say: Just
do the right thing.  If were down on the shot and even for a
fleeting instant realize were not bringing what we laboriously have
learned we need for *that* shot, we should habitually force ourselves
to get the f--k up, chalk up again, then get down and do the right
thing.  Whether its that special speed or english adjustment, special
bridge or grip, sighting technique, posture, attitude, etc. --
whatever we absolutely know empirically works best for us (uniquely)
on that shot or in that situation.

In short, were productively acknowledging to ourselves the high
probability of paying a price THAT HELPS OUR OPPONENT if we go against
a well-founded instinctive process or approach to that shot.

Ernie

 
 
 

Why do we and they (the pros) miss those easy shots?

Post by John Blac » Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:16:14



Quote:
> There is also a kind of self-consciousness that I think affects
> players, particularly league players or first-time tournament
> players.  This isn't exactly "ego", or "false confidence", it is
> slightly different.  It is that feeling that other people are
> watching you play, so you sort of pretend to go through the steps of
> lining up the shot, getting into stance, and executing, but you
> really didn't do those steps, you just pretended to.  So on your
> practice strokes, you don't really know where you are supposed to
> hit the object ball, and your stance is all out of whack, and you
> might not even know exactly where the cue ball needs to go
> afterwards, but your teammates are all watching you so you don't
> want to get up and do things right because it might show some kind
> of weakness or indecisiveness or uncertainty.  In reality, it is the
> fact that you know you aren't lined up, yet you are considering
> shooting anyway, that is the real weakness in your technique and
> that you should be fighting.

Excellent observation.

John Black

 
 
 

Why do we and they (the pros) miss those easy shots?

Post by Jack Stei » Wed, 25 Mar 2009 02:41:28

Ron, this is the best description of the "miss" I've read...  I'm
thinking of asking you if I could stick it on my web page along with
some of Lou's brilliant insights...

--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://Motzarella.org
http://jbstein.com

Quote:

> The miss is the "effect", but there are multiple "causes".  In
> addition to the above, which I think of as "false confidence", there
> is also impatience and laziness.  I think I'm particularly
> vulnerable to this.  I set up for a shot, and there's something that
> doesn't feel right (foot position, body position, bridge position,
> head position, elbow alignment, etc.), but I think to myself that
> it's alright, I'm "close enough" and the shot will probably go
> anyway, so I go ahead and pull the trigger.  It is just plain old
> laziness.  When I'm shooting well, I don't do this, it is mostly
> when I'm a little off.  In fact, when I'm shooting well, I actually
> seem to enjoy the whole process of shooting, including lining up the
> shots, so I don't even consider at some subconscious level skipping
> over that chance to line up the shot the right way.

> There is also a kind of self-consciousness that I think affects
> players, particularly league players or first-time tournament
> players.  This isn't exactly "ego", or "false confidence", it is
> slightly different.  It is that feeling that other people are
> watching you play, so you sort of pretend to go through the steps of
> lining up the shot, getting into stance, and executing, but you
> really didn't do those steps, you just pretended to.  So on your
> practice strokes, you don't really know where you are supposed to
> hit the object ball, and your stance is all out of whack, and you
> might not even know exactly where the cue ball needs to go
> afterwards, but your teammates are all watching you so you don't
> want to get up and do things right because it might show some kind
> of weakness or indecisiveness or uncertainty.  In reality, it is the
> fact that you know you aren't lined up, yet you are considering
> shooting anyway, that is the real weakness in your technique and
> that you should be fighting.  I am mostly (not always, but mostly)
> past this for league and tournament play, but I expect this will
> affect me if I ever play a game recorded for TV.

> $.02 -Ron Shepard

 
 
 

Why do we and they (the pros) miss those easy shots?

Post by lfiguero » Wed, 25 Mar 2009 06:19:11

Completely guilty as charged:  laziness in the first degree.

It's really hard to remember that really good pool takes really great
precision.  And for most of us, that means really hard work, each and
every shot.

Lou Figueroa

Quote:

> In article


>> [...]
>>   But I'll go and shoot the shot with another bridge, or without taking
>> the time to setup right, because I somehow feel (read: ego) that I
>> should be able to make the shot without the extra effort. [...]

> The miss is the "effect", but there are multiple "causes".  In
> addition to the above, which I think of as "false confidence", there
> is also impatience and laziness.  I think I'm particularly
> vulnerable to this.  I set up for a shot, and there's something that
> doesn't feel right (foot position, body position, bridge position,
> head position, elbow alignment, etc.), but I think to myself that
> it's alright, I'm "close enough" and the shot will probably go
> anyway, so I go ahead and pull the trigger.  It is just plain old
> laziness.  When I'm shooting well, I don't do this, it is mostly
> when I'm a little off.  In fact, when I'm shooting well, I actually
> seem to enjoy the whole process of shooting, including lining up the
> shots, so I don't even consider at some subconscious level skipping
> over that chance to line up the shot the right way.

> There is also a kind of self-consciousness that I think affects
> players, particularly league players or first-time tournament
> players.  This isn't exactly "ego", or "false confidence", it is
> slightly different.  It is that feeling that other people are
> watching you play, so you sort of pretend to go through the steps of
> lining up the shot, getting into stance, and executing, but you
> really didn't do those steps, you just pretended to.  So on your
> practice strokes, you don't really know where you are supposed to
> hit the object ball, and your stance is all out of whack, and you
> might not even know exactly where the cue ball needs to go
> afterwards, but your teammates are all watching you so you don't
> want to get up and do things right because it might show some kind
> of weakness or indecisiveness or uncertainty.  In reality, it is the
> fact that you know you aren't lined up, yet you are considering
> shooting anyway, that is the real weakness in your technique and
> that you should be fighting.  I am mostly (not always, but mostly)
> past this for league and tournament play, but I expect this will
> affect me if I ever play a game recorded for TV.

> $.02 -Ron Shepard

 
 
 

Why do we and they (the pros) miss those easy shots?

Post by lfiguero » Wed, 25 Mar 2009 06:23:44

I also think it's the eternal pool players dichotomy, between working
hard at the game, struggling to get decent results and the flip side,
which is being in total dead punch and the game becoming effortless.
We've all been to the land of dead stroke and it's makes things so
wonderfully effortless, that a part of us will always refuse to accept
that we should ever have to take an extra moment of effort to do what we
want to on a pool table.

Lou Figueroa

Quote:

> But I'll go and shoot the shot with another bridge, or without
> taking
> the time to setup right, because I somehow feel (read: ego) that I
> should be able to make the shot without the extra effort.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> That in fact, gets right to the heart of an all-too-common kind of
> unwitting self-sabotage, and one that it would seem, should be
> preventable:

> -- Its a quite specific tangent to what I loosely referred to as a
> kind of psychological self-punishment.  The common case of through
> years of experience really knowing what will optimize your chances on
> every kind of shot (all the micro adjustments that have always worked
> well for *that* shot), then doing otherwise.

> Then youre down on the shot and unavoidably and necessarily
> processing (somewhere in your mind) the fact that youre carelessly
> not doing what is optimal.  And you yourself become the agent of those
> *** Pool Gods and bingo -- you blow the shot.

> Probably accounts for more than half of all missed dead-easy shots.

> Whats the solution or cure?  Maybe, as the bent-nose guys say: Just
> do the right thing.  If were down on the shot and even for a
> fleeting instant realize were not bringing what we laboriously have
> learned we need for *that* shot, we should habitually force ourselves
> to get the f--k up, chalk up again, then get down and do the right
> thing.  Whether its that special speed or english adjustment, special
> bridge or grip, sighting technique, posture, attitude, etc. --
> whatever we absolutely know empirically works best for us (uniquely)
> on that shot or in that situation.

> In short, were productively acknowledging to ourselves the high
> probability of paying a price THAT HELPS OUR OPPONENT if we go against
> a well-founded instinctive process or approach to that shot.

> Ernie

 
 
 

Why do we and they (the pros) miss those easy shots?

Post by lfiguero » Wed, 25 Mar 2009 06:27:36

Holy smokes!!!!

I didn't know all that stuff was there.

uh, Jack, that's some old stuff I wrote, usually written on the fly
before my second cup of coffee..  If it's going to be out there for
perpetuity, do you mind if I clean some of it up and give you a slightly
updated set of posts?

Lou Figueroa
feeling immortalized :-)

Quote:

> Ron, this is the best description of the "miss" I've read...  I'm
> thinking of asking you if I could stick it on my web page along with
> some of Lou's brilliant insights...

 
 
 

Why do we and they (the pros) miss those easy shots?

Post by John Blac » Wed, 25 Mar 2009 07:52:15



Quote:
> It's really hard to remember that really good pool takes really great
> precision.  And for most of us, that means really hard work, each and
> every shot.

But for those who play pool to have *fun*, "really hard work" does not sound
appealing.  I get really hard work at work...

John Black

 
 
 

Why do we and they (the pros) miss those easy shots?

Post by Dan Whit » Wed, 25 Mar 2009 08:25:53


Quote:


>> It's really hard to remember that really good pool takes really great
>> precision.  And for most of us, that means really hard work, each and
>> every shot.

> But for those who play pool to have *fun*, "really hard work" does not
> sound
> appealing.  I get really hard work at work...

It's important to have fun, but I also like to play so that I can "get away
from it all" for a couple of hours.  There's no better way to lose yourself
than to concentrate on all that "hard work."  It doesn't really seem so much
like fun as maybe satisfaction... which I guess is fun in the end...

dwhite

 
 
 

Why do we and they (the pros) miss those easy shots?

Post by Jack Stei » Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:59:03

Quote:

> Holy smokes!!!!

> I didn't know all that stuff was there.

Well really, no one reads it I don't think... I put it there because I
like it and don't want to lose track of some of the good things said.
Then, I don't read it myself.  I just looked at it and was surprised at
some of the old names... BTW, I never put anything on there w/o
permission from the author... You had to know...

Quote:
> uh, Jack, that's some old stuff I wrote, usually written on the fly
> before my second cup of coffee..  

Yep, and it is all good. Sometimes you open my eyes, sometimes you
summarize a bunch of thought fragments into clear and concise
statements.  You've said lots of good stuff and it's all well written.
I'm a  big fan:-)

If it's going to be out there for

Quote:
> perpetuity, do you mind if I clean some of it up and give you a slightly
> updated set of posts?

Sure, just email me the updates, and I'll put it up.  I have stuff
sitting around for years that I never put up, but if you make the
effort, so will I:-)

Quote:
> Lou Figueroa
> feeling immortalized :-)

Maybe you should write that book...

--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://Motzarella.org
http://jbstein.com

 
 
 

Why do we and they (the pros) miss those easy shots?

Post by Ron Shepar » Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:51:35



Quote:
> But for those who play pool to have *fun*, "really hard work" does not sound
> appealing.  I get really hard work at work...

> John Black

Everything worth the effort is really hard work.  Sex is really hard
work, right?  Sex with someone else is even more work.

$.02 -Ron Shepard <--pushing 60, at least that's the
                     way I remember it

 
 
 

Why do we and they (the pros) miss those easy shots?

Post by Ron Shepar » Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:57:45



Quote:
> Ron, this is the best description of the "miss" I've read...  I'm
> thinking of asking you if I could stick it on my web page along with
> some of Lou's brilliant insights...

Sure.

$.02 -Ron Shepard