First pro 3-C experience

First pro 3-C experience

Post by Tarl R Kudri » Thu, 21 Jan 1999 04:00:00


        I got my hands on an Accu-Stats 3-cushion tape recently. I've
only played 3-C once, for all practical purposes, and I had an older
expert*** over my shoulder telling me what to do, so I managed a
run of 3. Anyway, I wanted to see what the pros did, and I have a few
reactions/questions:

        1) They must be using Simonis 300 or something equivalent for
the Sang Lee tournaments, because that cloth is faster than anything
I've ever seen. Medium strokes send the balls all over the table, and
they keep rolling and rolling...has anyone ever put Carom cloth on a
pool table and played 9-ball? You'd probably make six balls on every
break (and scratch at least half the time too).

        2) I get the feeling that good equipment is more important to
3-C than to pool. There's a 3-C table near the outskirts of Rochester,
NY, which is covered in thick bar table cloth. I didn't play on it--it
was usually in use--but it seems to me that whereas it's annoying to
play 9-ball on a really slow table, it would be close to impossible to
play 3-C on one. Am I right?

        3) Just a quick anecdote from the tape. Kurt Cuelemans (sp?) is
lining up some outrageously improbable shot, and he botches it terribly,
sending balls flying all over the place. Somehow, he manages to get a
point out of it anyway. The camera operator immediately raises the
camera so that it fixes on the sign proclaiming the name of the event:
the "S. L. Open" (Sang Lee Open), but cuts off the last two letters so
all you see is "S.L.op". Maybe that was just coincidence, but I have to
wonder! :-)

                                                 --Tarl Roger Kudrick

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"You get what you settle for."    |
Thelma, in "Thelma and Louise"    |I don't speak for my company. People
                                  |who visit me can speak for themselves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

First pro 3-C experience

Post by Nixo » Thu, 21 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

>       .has anyone ever put Carom cloth on a
> pool table and played 9-ball? You'd probably make six balls on every
> break (and scratch at least half the time too).

Tarl;

Sure.   I've had Simonis 760 on my GC-III for years.  You're right.
The balls really move.    Makes the game more fun.
However, not like in a 3-C game.  The extra size/mass of the
billiard balls lets them roll much longer and further(farther?).
Why?   I'll leave that to   $.02 Ron.

Dave

/s/David Nixon

Optimism; the only attitude that makes any sense in this world.

 
 
 

First pro 3-C experience

Post by Steven Heg » Thu, 21 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

> 2) I get the feeling that good equipment is more important to
>3-C than to pool. There's a 3-C table near the outskirts of Rochester,
>NY, which is covered in thick bar table cloth. I didn't play on it--it
>was usually in use--but it seems to me that whereas it's annoying to
>play 9-ball on a really slow table, it would be close to impossible to
>play 3-C on one. Am I right?

correct on all counts

 
 
 

First pro 3-C experience

Post by Dan Amis » Thu, 21 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

>         2) I get the feeling that good equipment is more important to
> 3-C than to pool. There's a 3-C table near the outskirts of Rochester,
> NY, which is covered in thick bar table cloth. I didn't play on it--it
> was usually in use--but it seems to me that whereas it's annoying to
> play 9-ball on a really slow table, it would be close to impossible to
> play 3-C on one. Am I right?

Assuming that you're referring to the table at Classic Billiards in
Greece, NY, you're correct that it is very slow.  I learned how to play
the game somewhat on it, but what happens is that the table plays very
short.  Diamond system is hard to work with on it.  Also, the slow cloth
eliminates many of the beautiful shots that 3C players want to make.
You have to use a much harder stroke to get any type of run on it, which
is a shame.  The locals have adjusted to it, so if you do ever play
there, watch out.

Dan

 
 
 

First pro 3-C experience

Post by Ron Shepa » Thu, 21 Jan 1999 04:00:00


Quote:

>[...] Medium strokes send the balls all over the table, and
>they keep rolling and rolling...has anyone ever put Carom cloth on a
>pool table and played 9-ball? You'd probably make six balls on every
>break (and scratch at least half the time too).

You're claiming that I would make more balls on the break *AND* scratch
less often too?  I skeptical.  But gimme some of that cloth, I'll try and
see. ;-)

The "table speed" on carom tables (with carom cloth) is usually much
higher than pool cloth on pool tables, sometimes by over a factor of two.
You can often get a good estimate of this from the 3C video tape.  Look
for a shot where the cue ball rolls almost table length, use a stopwatch
or freeze frame to measure the time (30 frames/second), and use the
equation

  TS = 193 * t * t / d

where "t" is the time in seconds the ball took to roll to a stop and "d"
is the distance in inches that the balls rolled.  The details of this are
discussed in APAPP.  Notice that the ball mass or size doesn't matter
according to this equation.

$.02 -Ron Shepard

 
 
 

First pro 3-C experience

Post by Deno J. Andrew » Thu, 21 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Tarl,

I am impressed with your observations from a video!  Your comments are
right on about the speed of the tables, condition of the equipment etc.

Billiard cloth (Granito A & M, and Simonis 300 International Rapide) is
worsted wool much like the higher end pool cloth.  Only a couple of
things make billiard cloth different than pool cloth.  Most worsted pool
cloth has a tight, flat playing surface and a cushion like bottom side.
Billiard cloth is tight and flat on both sides and much much thinner
than pool cloth.  There is a recommended surface side on billiard cloth,
but you can play on either side and most likely never know the
difference.  I am not positive, but I think the thread count is much
higher also.

The equipment is such a big factor in billiards.  I am not a pool
player, but what I have noticed about pool is it seems best to play with
minimal ball movement, e.g. playing position near the center lines of
the table and not moving the cue ball around too much on each shot for
position.  In billiards, besides tickie shots, even the more simple
shots require usually at least three different rail contacts and on the
average, 20 feet of ball movement.  The cloth, balls and rails are
important in all cue games, but comes into play much more in billiards
IMHO.  Plus, billiard players get used to tha 'angle' of the table we
play on mostly.  This is a problem because each table is slightly
different, and the condition of the cloth along with how tight it is
stretched has a major impact on not only the angle but the amount of
slide of the table.  The condition of the balls also contributes to the
amount of slide.  Many of us tournament players feel the more slide the
better. It is easier to manufacture angles and shots with slide.

As for the observation on the tape regarding the S.L.op - Pat Fleming
and his crew are very fun guys to work with...I would not put it past
them...I will find out.  
Deno J. Andrews

 
 
 

First pro 3-C experience

Post by MarvelRo » Fri, 22 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Steve,

Quote:

>    1) They must be using Simonis 300 or something equivalent

Your right, they are using Granito billiard cloth- absolutely forget about
using that on a pool table!>

Quote:
>    2) I get the feeling that good equipment is more important to
>3-C than to pool.

It is, especially during tournaments. The table is vacuumed between every
match, not even just brushed. The balls are cleaned and waxed for every match.
In a well run room these two things are done most of the time anyway.  I gave
up pool for 3C for a while & when I came back, I was SPOILED! I still thing we
pool players should adopt this routine. Especially for tournaments. I think I
posted something about that recently. We should at least start demanding that
the tables be vacuumed daily in all our rooms. You will be surprised at how
much better they will play, & the owners will be surprised at how the cloth
lasts longer!
Just my opinion!
Marvel
 
 
 

First pro 3-C experience

Post by interlin » Fri, 22 Jan 1999 04:00:00

With all of this 3C talk I would like to actually learn the game. There is
only one problem, I have no where to play. I live in Jackson Mississippi
and am curious if there is a table in a near-by state where there are nice
people to play with and learn from. I do not intend on learning at a price
only table time.

Anyone?

--

bits/keyID    1024/3A30CC85
Key fingerprint =  1D A3 B6 53 58 18 A2 F7  EC 01 C6 14 88 C0 76 77

 
 
 

First pro 3-C experience

Post by Tom Simps » Sat, 23 Jan 1999 04:00:00

::With all of this 3C talk I would like to actually learn the game. There is
::only one problem, I have no where to play. I live in Jackson Mississippi
::and am curious if there is a table in a near-by state where there are nice
::people to play with and learn from. I do not intend on learning at a price
::only table time.
::
::Anyone?
::

Yeah, while we're at it -- any 3C players in Columbus that
have a place to play? As far as I know, they aren't any
public tables anymore.

I'd love to shoot some. Not much experience, though.

        tom simpson

 
 
 

First pro 3-C experience

Post by Ira Le » Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Check out http://SportToday.org/ for the latest 3-cushion tapes from the Carom
Corner 1999 $200,000 Tour 1st Stop held in California last week.  There are some
very exciting matches with Semih Sayginer (Turkish artistic master) and Sang
Lee....

-Ira

Quote:

>         I got my hands on an Accu-Stats 3-cushion tape recently. I've
> only played 3-C once, for all practical purposes, and I had an older
> expert*** over my shoulder telling me what to do, so I managed a
> run of 3. Anyway, I wanted to see what the pros did, and I have a few
> reactions/questions:

>         1) They must be using Simonis 300 or something equivalent for
> the Sang Lee tournaments, because that cloth is faster than anything
> I've ever seen. Medium strokes send the balls all over the table, and
> they keep rolling and rolling...has anyone ever put Carom cloth on a
> pool table and played 9-ball? You'd probably make six balls on every
> break (and scratch at least half the time too).

>         2) I get the feeling that good equipment is more important to
> 3-C than to pool. There's a 3-C table near the outskirts of Rochester,
> NY, which is covered in thick bar table cloth. I didn't play on it--it
> was usually in use--but it seems to me that whereas it's annoying to
> play 9-ball on a really slow table, it would be close to impossible to
> play 3-C on one. Am I right?

>         3) Just a quick anecdote from the tape. Kurt Cuelemans (sp?) is
> lining up some outrageously improbable shot, and he botches it terribly,
> sending balls flying all over the place. Somehow, he manages to get a
> point out of it anyway. The camera operator immediately raises the
> camera so that it fixes on the sign proclaiming the name of the event:
> the "S. L. Open" (Sang Lee Open), but cuts off the last two letters so
> all you see is "S.L.op". Maybe that was just coincidence, but I have to
> wonder! :-)

>                                                  --Tarl Roger Kudrick

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> "You get what you settle for."    |
> Thelma, in "Thelma and Louise"    |I don't speak for my company. People
>                                   |who visit me can speak for themselves.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------