BCA Selling Leagues

BCA Selling Leagues

Post by BCA Play » Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:12:51


Yes it's true!  In it's infinite wisdom, the BCA Board of Directors
has decided to sell the BCA League system to the highest bidder.  The
Trade Member dominated board is attempting to profit off the hard work
of its team captains, league operators, state association board
members and player volunteers.  I applaud the Boards decision to
separate the league system from the trade association; to separate the
two is well over due.  However, to sell it and alienate a large
portion of its membership is not the answer.  The BCA League system
must remain a non-profit organization controlled by the players and
league operators that have made it what it is today.  If you would
like to know more about the "sale of billiards integrity" in America
and what options are available please feel free to contact this email

want to express your views directly please contact the BCA Board of
Directors by calling 719-264-8300.

BCA Player

 
 
 

BCA Selling Leagues

Post by ratche » Thu, 29 Jan 2004 02:29:52

What do the ramifications of this sale mean to the league player ???
Quote:
>>> Ratchet <<<

> Yes it's true!  In it's infinite wisdom, the BCA Board of Directors
> has decided to sell the BCA League system to the highest bidder.  The
> Trade Member dominated board is attempting to profit off the hard work
> of its team captains, league operators, state association board
> members and player volunteers.  I applaud the Boards decision to
> separate the league system from the trade association; to separate the
> two is well over due.  However, to sell it and alienate a large
> portion of its membership is not the answer.  The BCA League system
> must remain a non-profit organization controlled by the players and
> league operators that have made it what it is today.  If you would
> like to know more about the "sale of billiards integrity" in America
> and what options are available please feel free to contact this email

> want to express your views directly please contact the BCA Board of
> Directors by calling 719-264-8300.

> BCA Player


 
 
 

BCA Selling Leagues

Post by Frank How » Thu, 29 Jan 2004 05:36:00

I understand it has been in the works for a while to sell
the players to the APA.  I am not sure of the holdup
except that the BCA had a false number of members
presented for the buy.  APA wanted proof and wanted to look
into it further.  I think the deal will go down eventually.


Quote:
> Yes it's true!  In it's infinite wisdom, the BCA Board of Directors
> has decided to sell the BCA League system to the highest bidder.  The
> Trade Member dominated board is attempting to profit off the hard work
> of its team captains, league operators, state association board
> members and player volunteers.  I applaud the Boards decision to
> separate the league system from the trade association; to separate the
> two is well over due.  However, to sell it and alienate a large
> portion of its membership is not the answer.  The BCA League system
> must remain a non-profit organization controlled by the players and
> league operators that have made it what it is today.  If you would
> like to know more about the "sale of billiards integrity" in America
> and what options are available please feel free to contact this email

> want to express your views directly please contact the BCA Board of
> Directors by calling 719-264-8300.

> BCA Player


 
 
 

BCA Selling Leagues

Post by Steve Elli » Thu, 29 Jan 2004 07:52:13

I don't think that will go over too well. After all most of the BCA players conciously
choose BCA over APA. I've never played BCA, only APA, but from what I've heard the leagues
are quite different. And just how do you sell the members of a league?
Quote:

>I understand it has been in the works for a while to sell
>the players to the APA.  I am not sure of the holdup
>except that the BCA had a false number of members
>presented for the buy.  APA wanted proof and wanted to look
>into it further.  I think the deal will go down eventually.



>> Yes it's true!  In it's infinite wisdom, the BCA Board of Directors
>> has decided to sell the BCA League system to the highest bidder.  The
>> Trade Member dominated board is attempting to profit off the hard work
>> of its team captains, league operators, state association board
>> members and player volunteers.  I applaud the Boards decision to
>> separate the league system from the trade association; to separate the
>> two is well over due.  However, to sell it and alienate a large
>> portion of its membership is not the answer.  The BCA League system
>> must remain a non-profit organization controlled by the players and
>> league operators that have made it what it is today.  If you would
>> like to know more about the "sale of billiards integrity" in America
>> and what options are available please feel free to contact this email

>> want to express your views directly please contact the BCA Board of
>> Directors by calling 719-264-8300.

>> BCA Player

 
 
 

BCA Selling Leagues

Post by Roy Maso » Thu, 29 Jan 2004 23:38:38

I am a large BCA league operator in Southern Ontario, Canada.  I have about
700 players in my various leagues.  I run these leagues on a break even
basis.

APA is not the only one who is interested in buying the league.  I had a
call from one of the interested parties last week.  He was calling to find
out the reaction of the larger league operators to the potential sale.

I told him that should the league be sold to a for profit company, the
Canadian leagues would probably band together and start their own league.
This option was already discussed at the Canadian BCA Championships in
January.  I also suggested that the BCA State associations in the US were
ready to do the same thing.

What would the impact on the players be??  If it was sold to a for profit
company and the operator stayed with this company, it would have to cost
them money.  BCA currently charges $10 US per player.  I can not see this
staying the same if someone is trying to make money on the league.  Just
look at APA and how much of the money gets back to the players.

If a separate association were started, I would see very little change and
the players would probably not even know it happened.  We would still run
Vegas, although probably on a slightly smaller scale the first year.   In
Canada we would still run the Canadians and the Western and Eastern
championships.

If the potential buyers talk to the large operators, I can not see them
going ahead with the purchase unless there was very little money involved.
After all, they are buying the right to affiliate players and if these
players move to another association they will be left with nothing.

Roy Mason


Quote:
> I don't think that will go over too well. After all most of the BCA
players conciously
> choose BCA over APA. I've never played BCA, only APA, but from what I've
heard the leagues
> are quite different. And just how do you sell the members of a league?



> >I understand it has been in the works for a while to sell
> >the players to the APA.  I am not sure of the holdup
> >except that the BCA had a false number of members
> >presented for the buy.  APA wanted proof and wanted to look
> >into it further.  I think the deal will go down eventually.



> >> Yes it's true!  In it's infinite wisdom, the BCA Board of Directors
> >> has decided to sell the BCA League system to the highest bidder.  The
> >> Trade Member dominated board is attempting to profit off the hard work
> >> of its team captains, league operators, state association board
> >> members and player volunteers.  I applaud the Boards decision to
> >> separate the league system from the trade association; to separate the
> >> two is well over due.  However, to sell it and alienate a large
> >> portion of its membership is not the answer.  The BCA League system
> >> must remain a non-profit organization controlled by the players and
> >> league operators that have made it what it is today.  If you would
> >> like to know more about the "sale of billiards integrity" in America
> >> and what options are available please feel free to contact this email

> >> want to express your views directly please contact the BCA Board of
> >> Directors by calling 719-264-8300.

> >> BCA Player

 
 
 

BCA Selling Leagues

Post by Jim Wyan » Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:06:30

This whole "selling the BCA leagues" concept has some strange implications.
Considering that the BCA is run by a board of which some members have vested
interests in other leagues, this almost seems like a hostile takeover (in
corporate terms).  They can't buy stock, so they take their presence,
leverage the other board members, and agree to do something to the BCA which
profits themselves.  While I'm sure what they are doing is not illegal, it
seems to be far from ethical.  I, for one, would adamantly refuse to join
such an organization after they "took me over".

--Jim


Quote:

> I am a large BCA league operator in Southern Ontario, Canada.  I have about
> 700 players in my various leagues.  I run these leagues on a break even
> basis.

> APA is not the only one who is interested in buying the league.  I had a
> call from one of the interested parties last week.  He was calling to find
> out the reaction of the larger league operators to the potential sale.

> I told him that should the league be sold to a for profit company, the
> Canadian leagues would probably band together and start their own league.
> This option was already discussed at the Canadian BCA Championships in
> January.  I also suggested that the BCA State associations in the US were
> ready to do the same thing.

> What would the impact on the players be??  If it was sold to a for profit
> company and the operator stayed with this company, it would have to cost
> them money.  BCA currently charges $10 US per player.  I can not see this
> staying the same if someone is trying to make money on the league.  Just
> look at APA and how much of the money gets back to the players.

> If a separate association were started, I would see very little change and
> the players would probably not even know it happened.  We would still run
> Vegas, although probably on a slightly smaller scale the first year.   In
> Canada we would still run the Canadians and the Western and Eastern
> championships.

> If the potential buyers talk to the large operators, I can not see them
> going ahead with the purchase unless there was very little money involved.
> After all, they are buying the right to affiliate players and if these
> players move to another association they will be left with nothing.

> Roy Mason



>> I don't think that will go over too well. After all most of the BCA
> players conciously
>> choose BCA over APA. I've never played BCA, only APA, but from what I've
> heard the leagues
>> are quite different. And just how do you sell the members of a league?



>>> I understand it has been in the works for a while to sell
>>> the players to the APA.  I am not sure of the holdup
>>> except that the BCA had a false number of members
>>> presented for the buy.  APA wanted proof and wanted to look
>>> into it further.  I think the deal will go down eventually.



>>>> Yes it's true!  In it's infinite wisdom, the BCA Board of Directors
>>>> has decided to sell the BCA League system to the highest bidder.  The
>>>> Trade Member dominated board is attempting to profit off the hard work
>>>> of its team captains, league operators, state association board
>>>> members and player volunteers.  I applaud the Boards decision to
>>>> separate the league system from the trade association; to separate the
>>>> two is well over due.  However, to sell it and alienate a large
>>>> portion of its membership is not the answer.  The BCA League system
>>>> must remain a non-profit organization controlled by the players and
>>>> league operators that have made it what it is today.  If you would
>>>> like to know more about the "sale of billiards integrity" in America
>>>> and what options are available please feel free to contact this email

>>>> want to express your views directly please contact the BCA Board of
>>>> Directors by calling 719-264-8300.

>>>> BCA Player

 
 
 

BCA Selling Leagues

Post by Jim Bar » Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:51:14


Quote:
> I understand it has been in the works for a while to sell
> the players to the APA.  I am not sure of the holdup
> except that the BCA had a false number of members
> presented for the buy.  APA wanted proof and wanted to look
> into it further.  I think the deal will go down eventually.

Interesting, how do the APA League operators feel about this? Wouldn't the
APA be providing and sponsoring competition against the same league
operators that bought franchises?

On one hand I think BCA needs to sell the leagues, but on the other hand
selling to APA would combine the 2 largest leagues into one organization.
This would put them one step closer to a monopoly. BCA was set up to promote
the sport and helping to create a monopoly would not be promoting.

JMHO

Jim Barr

 
 
 

BCA Selling Leagues

Post by Patrick Johnso » Fri, 30 Jan 2004 23:19:46

That's two posts this year, Jim.  Aren't you exceeding your limit?

Pat Johnson
Chicago

Quote:



>>I understand it has been in the works for a while to sell
>>the players to the APA.  I am not sure of the holdup
>>except that the BCA had a false number of members
>>presented for the buy.  APA wanted proof and wanted to look
>>into it further.  I think the deal will go down eventually.

> Interesting, how do the APA League operators feel about this? Wouldn't the
> APA be providing and sponsoring competition against the same league
> operators that bought franchises?

> On one hand I think BCA needs to sell the leagues, but on the other hand
> selling to APA would combine the 2 largest leagues into one organization.
> This would put them one step closer to a monopoly. BCA was set up to promote
> the sport and helping to create a monopoly would not be promoting.

> JMHO

> Jim Barr

 
 
 

BCA Selling Leagues

Post by Dean » Sat, 31 Jan 2004 01:25:14

Jim,

Selling it is the problem.  If they want to spin it off into a non-profit,
that would be ideal.  There is no doubt that they need to seperate but don't
turn it into a for profit league.  Many people want to donate their time &
money to the sport they love.  It's their way of giving back to the sport
they love so much.  The non-profit BCA Leagues gives them a way of doing
just that.  They don't want to give their time & money to make somebody
rich.

Dean Bradley
MN BCA President

Quote:



> > I understand it has been in the works for a while to sell
> > the players to the APA.  I am not sure of the holdup
> > except that the BCA had a false number of members
> > presented for the buy.  APA wanted proof and wanted to look
> > into it further.  I think the deal will go down eventually.

> Interesting, how do the APA League operators feel about this? Wouldn't the
> APA be providing and sponsoring competition against the same league
> operators that bought franchises?

> On one hand I think BCA needs to sell the leagues, but on the other hand
> selling to APA would combine the 2 largest leagues into one organization.
> This would put them one step closer to a monopoly. BCA was set up to
promote
> the sport and helping to create a monopoly would not be promoting.

> JMHO

> Jim Barr

 
 
 

BCA Selling Leagues

Post by Frank Glen » Sat, 31 Jan 2004 02:34:44


:|:Selling it is the problem.  If they want to spin it off into a non-profit,
:|:that would be ideal.  
:|:

Yes, the problem I see is two-fold. The BCA LO is left out (if there
is already an APA LO in the area) and the players in the BCA league
here are there because they do _not_ like the APA. They will quit,
leaving the buyer holding the bag (along with the BCA LO).
Frank

 
 
 

BCA Selling Leagues

Post by weedwack » Sat, 31 Jan 2004 03:43:49

Quote:

> I don't think that will go over too well. After all most of the BCA players  >conciously choose BCA over APA. I've never played BCA, only APA, but from what >I've heard the leagues are quite different. And just how do you sell the >members of a league?

Do you think the APA would try to convert BCA leagues to APA format
leagues?  As you noted, I don't think that would go over too well.  I
would think that if the APA were to take over (buy out) the BCA, they
would keep the name and same general format and just charge a bit more
to make their profit.

I think the BCA's biggest assets in any sale would be the name and
their good will (i.e., the good will between the league and the
players that promotes loyalty to the league). Obviously, the members
of the league are free to come and go as they choose, and anyone
buying the BCA would want to maintain that good will.

Let's face it, these leagues are businesses.  They should benefit
everyone --the players, the poolroom owners and, yes, the franchisor
(the person selling the franchise rights, e.g., the APA or BCA).
Nevertheless, I hope they don't lose sight of the fact that the
players are their biggest asset, and, presumably, if you don't treat
the players right, the players will leave.

 
 
 

BCA Selling Leagues

Post by Jim Bar » Sat, 31 Jan 2004 05:31:47


Quote:


> :|:Selling it is the problem.  If they want to spin it off into a
non-profit,
> :|:that would be ideal.
> :|:

> Yes, the problem I see is two-fold. The BCA LO is left out (if there
> is already an APA LO in the area)

I think this would be a stupid mistake on their part. If a BCA League
Operator has done a good job and run a quality league then I think they
could start a local league and most of the players would follow. But what
would APA do with the BCA LO's. I doubt many of them would buy a Franchise.
Would APA buy some of the larger leagues out? Would they give them the
franchise? And as I pointed out earlier, if so they would then be promoting
competition against their own franchisees. I have tossed this around in my
head for 2 days and unless I'm missing something I doubt APA will buy the
BCA League system.

Jim Barr

 
 
 

BCA Selling Leagues

Post by Jim Bar » Sat, 31 Jan 2004 05:32:39


Quote:
> Jim,

> Selling it is the problem.

Maybe, I do have a problem with APA buying them, but what if a buyer
provided leagues that were run as good or better than the BCA. It would then
be to their benefit to promote the sport as much as they could afford to,
and that would benefit everyone. The BCA league needs new ***, a new way
of thinking, possibly some new and interesting changes. Would all this be
worth an extra 10 to 15 bucks per year? Everyone will always have the choice
to play or not. If the fees were not too high and the leagues were enjoyable
then I would not have a problem with someone making a profit.

Jim Barr

 
 
 

BCA Selling Leagues

Post by Jim Bar » Sat, 31 Jan 2004 05:32:49


Quote:
> That's two posts this year, Jim.  Aren't you exceeding your limit?

Yea, I think I have. All this typing has worked up a callus on my index
fingers.

Jim Barr

~~~~ Little sharks eat big fish~~~~~

 
 
 

BCA Selling Leagues

Post by Gregor » Sat, 31 Jan 2004 05:59:50

weedwacker wrote

Quote:
> Let's face it, these leagues are businesses.  They should benefit
> everyone --the players, the poolroom owners and, yes, the franchisor
> (the person selling the franchise rights, e.g., the APA or BCA).

The BCA doesn't sell franchises.