Cue makers’ precision

Cue makers’ precision

Post by Path2P » Sun, 23 Jan 2000 04:00:00


My question is this: what degree of accuracy is it reasonable to expect of
cuemakers and the equipment they use to create the uniform diameter portions of
professional taper shafts?

Three months ago I purchased a cue and just couldnt seem to hit as
consistently with it as I could with a number of other sticks.

After two months of frustration I made two observations: 1) the grain looked
sorta wavy to me and 2)  the shaft diameter along the first ten inches (as
measured from the ***end of the ferrule) was not uniform. The manufacturer,
who referred to the latter variability as a coke bottle effect,  remilled
(not replaced) the shaft  without argument and returned it to me today.

I tried it out immediately, with disappointing results.

So, harking back to my earlier experience, I took a closer look at the shaft.
The diameter  along the first five inches (again measured from the ***end of
the ferrule) is about .2 (two tenths of a mm) +/- .1 mm greater than it is
along the next five inches!

I realize the greatest variability is within me and not the shaft.  

However, for two reasons I suspect greater cuemaking accuracy that this is a
reasonable expectation. First, players seem able to distinguish between shafts
of 12.5, 12.75 and  and 13 mm. Second, I just noticed this evening that
cuemaker Judd Fuller is quoted in this months Pool and Billiard magazine (p
58) as measuring the outside diameter at the ***end of a cue to an accuracy
of thousands of an inch (1.240 inches) which would be, by my calculations,
equivalent to accuracy at the .025 mm level.

Still,  Im no expert, so I ask those who are:  what variations in diameter
throughout  the first ten inches of a professional taper shaft are acceptable
to the cue makers who read these exchanges?

Bill Baird

 
 
 

Cue makers’ precision

Post by sheldoncu » Sun, 23 Jan 2000 04:00:00

I am within one tenth of one millimeter on all my custom cues. The reason
your cue was not well tapered is probably because it was sanded down to the
last millimeter or two. I like to get within 0.1-0.2mm of finish with a
router. This makes the taper very consistent and straight. I only sand off
enough to make the shaft perfectly smooth. Any extra sanding is going to
result in inconsistencys such as you have described. It is possible to sand
evenly but it is not very precise. The router on my lathe is very accurate
whatever the taper bar is set at, It cuts nice and straight. Some of the
cuemakerw now are tapering with CNC (computer numeric control) and I would
think this would be very accurate.
So, in conclusion I would have to expect at most  0.1 mm variation in actual
size, and much less than that in consistency of taper on the length of the
shaft.

Quote:
> My question is this: what degree of accuracy is it reasonable to expect of
> cuemakers and the equipment they use to create the uniform diameter
portions of
> "professional taper" shafts?

> Three months ago I purchased a cue and just couldn't seem to hit as
> consistently with it as I could with a number of other sticks.

> After two months of frustration I made two observations: 1) the grain
looked
> sorta wavy to me and 2)  the shaft diameter along the first ten inches (as
> measured from the ***end of the ferrule) was not uniform. The
manufacturer,
> who referred to the latter variability as a "coke bottle" effect,
remilled
> (not replaced) the shaft  without argument and returned it to me today.

> I tried it out immediately, with disappointing results.

> So, harking back to my earlier experience, I took a closer look at the
shaft.
> The diameter  along the first five inches (again measured from the ***
end of
> the ferrule) is about .2 (two tenths of a mm) +/- .1 mm greater than it is
> along the next five inches!

> I realize the greatest variability is within me and not the shaft.

> However, for two reasons I suspect greater cuemaking accuracy that this is
a
> reasonable expectation. First, players seem able to distinguish between
shafts
> of 12.5, 12.75 and  and 13 mm. Second, I just noticed this evening that
> cuemaker Judd Fuller is quoted in this month's Pool and Billiard magazine
(p
> 58) as measuring the outside diameter at the ***end of a cue to an
accuracy
> of thousands of an inch (1.240 inches) which would be, by my calculations,
> equivalent to accuracy at the .025 mm level.

> Still,  I'm no expert, so I ask those who are:  what variations in
diameter
> throughout  the first ten inches of a professional taper shaft are
acceptable
> to the cue makers who read these exchanges?

> Bill Baird



 
 
 

Cue makers’ precision

Post by Pierce D. Gil » Sun, 23 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

>My question is this: what degree of accuracy is it reasonable to expect of
>cuemakers and the equipment they use to create the uniform diameter
portions of
>professional taper shafts?

>Three months ago I purchased a cue and just couldnt seem to hit as
>consistently with it as I could with a number of other sticks.

>After two months of frustration I made two observations: 1) the grain
looked
>sorta wavy to me and 2)  the shaft diameter along the first ten inches (as
>measured from the ***end of the ferrule) was not uniform.

good question.  Answer is more complicated than you might want to hear
because you used that
word with the elusive definition *HIT*

first off the grain being *sorta wavy* may be a problem, or may not.

more important - in general - wood is a NATURAL substance and wood varies,
sometimes it varies mondo in straightness/density/clarity etc, etc
any and all of these MAY affect the hit you prefer, and they might make more
difference than the precision of the diameter, or lack thereof

evaluation of the quality of *hit* is an extremely subjective decision and
one man*s trash
is most decidedly, another man*s treasure

some points offered  for consideration
    3 cushion players use shafts that taper faster than a house cue <no pro
taper section at all>
    many excellent players evaluate a shaft solely on the sound it makes
when they shoot
    some players want snow white shafts with no visible grain - while others
    insist that darker, grainy shafts are superior

I think this all adds up to 2 simple points <that have been expressed on the
ng many times before>
1. there are several ways to produce a shaft that hits *good*
2. *good* hit means different things to different people

IMHO the only way to know if a cue hits good is to pound some balls with it
and see
if you like it, it*s good

BTW for what it*s worth - legendary cuemaker Gas Szamboti
hand sanded all his shafts to final size and profile

hope this helps
Dale

 
 
 

Cue makers’ precision

Post by KIM SMI » Mon, 24 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Quote:
>My question is this: what degree of accuracy is it reasonable to expect of
>cuemakers and the equipment they use to create the uniform diameter portions
>of
>professional taper shafts?

It is "reasonable" to expect to get what you pay for.  I don't know what kind
of cue you got, but whenever someone asks me what cue to buy, I tell them that
higher prices can be a result of either COSMETICS or CRAFTSMANSHIP.

I have seen some beautiful artwork on rather low-end cues which were priced
quite high because of that artwork.  I have also seen rather plain cues that
were expensive, and when I hit with them I knew why; they hit great.

My final advice to anyone buying a cue is that they hit a few racks with it
first.  Avoid the temptation to purchase based on cosmetics unless you are
first very satisfied with the hit.  My last stick was ugly but I liked the hit
very much.  I replaced it when I found one that I liked to hit with even more.
The icing-on-the-cake is that it happens to be a very beautiful cue.

When you find a cue that you can IMMEDIATELY hit well with it, it is a good cue
for you.  You should not have to adjust to or "get used to" a cue.
Unfortunately, when a cue is purchased solely on cosmetics, the player is faced
with adjusting or, worse, never being able to adjust.

KIM SMITH
House Pro:  The Billiard Club
West Chester, PA 610-692-5893
Sponsored by Cuesnthings.com

 
 
 

Cue makers’ precision

Post by barenad » Mon, 24 Jan 2000 04:00:00

I'm just curious - does anyone besides me see the topic of this thread
as "=?utf-8?B?UmU6IEN1ZSBtYWtlcnPigJkgcHJlY2lzaW9u?="?

I this one of those "secret society" things?

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

 
 
 

Cue makers’ precision

Post by Greg Mille » Mon, 24 Jan 2000 04:00:00

KIM SMITH >
[...]

Quote:
> When you find a cue that you can IMMEDIATELY hit well with it, it is a
good cue
> for you.  You should not have to adjust to or "get used to" a cue.
> Unfortunately, when a cue is purchased solely on cosmetics, the player is
faced
> with adjusting or, worse, never being able to adjust.

I disagree.  A person might want to buy a particular stick for a reason
besides cosmetics namely to intentionally get a different squirt
characteristic.  Some people feel it important.  Any time you switch squirt
characteristics you must get used to it.  Some adjust quicker than others.
Some maintain they don't have to adjust but I suspect a combination of two
things are happening in those cases:
a) These people have a very good technical game, i.e., they use side on a
smaller percentage of shots than most, and when they do use it they use a
smaller amount of it, i.e., they use less tip offset than most.  These good
players get their shape mostly with shot speed and centerball (verticle
center), so they are dealing with only a little squirt and not very often at
that.
b)  These players have a lot of natural talent, namely eye-hand coordination
and rapid adaptability to different playing conditions.
I believe that these naturally talented, usually hard playing people adjust
so little and/or quickly it seems like no adjustment period at all.  But an
adjustment period does exist.

Those who switch squirt traits and don't ever adjust must decide.  Even
though they have played with this new stick for the past five years,  still
they could adjust as soon as tomorrow.       :)

 
 
 

Cue makers’ precision

Post by barenad » Mon, 24 Jan 2000 04:00:00

It comes out correctly in outlook.  Must be a remarq.com problem.

Quote:

>I'm just curious - does anyone besides me see the topic of this thread
>as "=?utf-8?B?UmU6IEN1ZSBtYWtlcnPigJkgcHJlY2lzaW9u?="?

>Is this one of those "secret society" things?

>* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network
*
>The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

 
 
 

Cue makers’ precision

Post by Tom Simpso » Mon, 24 Jan 2000 04:00:00

::>
::> I'm just curious - does anyone besides me see the topic of this thread
::> as "=?utf-8?B?UmU6IEN1ZSBtYWtlcnPigJkgcHJlY2lzaW9u?="?
::>
::> I this one of those "secret society" things?

You need a Cuemaker Decoder Ring.

        tom simpson

 
 
 

Cue makers’ precision

Post by Steve C » Tue, 25 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> I'm just curious - does anyone besides me see the topic of this thread
> as "=?utf-8?B?UmU6IEN1ZSBtYWtlcnPigJkgcHJlY2lzaW9u?="?

> I this one of those "secret society" things?

> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

Nope... I see it as: Re: Re: Cue makers precision
--
Steve
 
 
 

Cue makers’ precision

Post by Bill Bai » Tue, 25 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Nineball*** replied:
<< It is "reasonable" to expect to get what you pay for.  I don't know what
kind of cue you got, but whenever someone asks me what cue to buy, I tell them
that higher prices can be a result of either COSMETICS or CRAFTSMANSHIP.

<<My final advice to anyone buying a cue is that they hit a few racks with it
first.  Avoid the temptation to purchase based on cosmetics unless you are
first very satisfied with the hit.>>

The cue was from a well-known, in-business many years, manufacturer. The stick
cost about $300.

I spent about 2 hours trying various cues. All with only center ball hits
because the shop where I made the purchase does not allow chalking before
purchase, as is the practice of all in this area. It felt great. That was the
only reason I bought it.  The "problem" I have with the stick (or my shooting
is when I apply a bit of side spin) I get a cueball which squirts, i.e. travels
off from a direct line formed by extending one through the center of the length
of the cue, more than is comfortable for me - and it does not seem to be
consistent.

I don't know if the variations in diameter influence the way the stick plays or
not, but even if not, I continue to feel that greater precision is a reasonable
expectation.

I further suspect that the variations may be the result of the specific piece
of wood used in the shaft. That is, if it has more than normal inconsistencies,
they may be influencing precision and they may be influencing the hit. Maybe
not.

I'll ask the manufacturer for a replacement on Monday.

Bill