Letting the Arrow Go

Letting the Arrow Go

Post by Ed McCun » Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:55:02


Ron Shepard advised me to slow my backstroke down a while back to help
avoid stroke twitch and I thought at the time that was good advice.
Advice I've heard before too and I always thought i did backstroke
fairly slowly. I noticed that occasionally i would poke or jerk my
stroke and so, thinks I, I shall deliberately practice with a super slow
backstroke to try to defeat the problem.

Well, the first thing I notice with a real slow backstroke is that the
cue seems to be almost stroking itself. I just sort of sling it forward
and it takes care of the rest. Like drawing a bowstring back and just
letting go of the arrow. It is effortless and I was hitting the spot
perfectly.

I guess I was jerking my backstroke too fast all along, even though I
didn't think so. Odd. I've known this was how to stroke all along and I
believe I've done this before and had great results but never knew
exactly what I was doing. Odd to have a revelation about a commonplace
technique that I already thought I was doing but really wasn't most of
the time.

Ed
--

 
 
 

Letting the Arrow Go

Post by Dan Whit » Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:41:13


Quote:

> I guess I was jerking my backstroke too fast all along, even though I
> didn't think so. Odd. I've known this was how to stroke all along and I
> believe I've done this before and had great results but never knew
> exactly what I was doing. Odd to have a revelation about a commonplace
> technique that I already thought I was doing but really wasn't most of
> the time.

Now the trick is to keep doing it and NOT FORGET.  It's harder to do than
you might think, especially when you go on to work on other parts of your
game.

dwhite

 
 
 

Letting the Arrow Go

Post by John W. Pierc » Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:55:49


Quote:

> Like drawing a bowstring back and just letting go of the arrow....

My GOD, ED!!!! You're being corrupted by Zen Cueism!

-- jwp

 
 
 

Letting the Arrow Go

Post by ZenCue.. » Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:57:42

Quote:



> > I guess I was jerking my backstroke too fast all along, even though I
> > didn't think so. Odd. I've known this was how to stroke all along and I
> > believe I've done this before and had great results but never knew
> > exactly what I was doing. Odd to have a revelation about a commonplace
> > technique that I already thought I was doing but really wasn't most of
> > the time.

"And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started
and know the place for the first time." ~  T.S. Eliot

Quote:

> Now the trick is to keep doing it and NOT FORGET.

The Zen way, of course, is to forget it and keep doing it. :-)

David Hakala
The Zen Cueist
Denver, CO USA

 
 
 

Letting the Arrow Go

Post by Dan Whit » Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:15:50


Quote:
> > Now the trick is to keep doing it and NOT FORGET.

> The Zen way, of course, is to forget it and keep doing it. :-)

Yeah, yeah.  Call it what you want.  Just do it enough so that it becomes
automatic...easier said than done.

dwhite

 
 
 

Letting the Arrow Go

Post by plat » Wed, 24 Jan 2007 23:50:23

Quote:


> > Like drawing a bowstring back and just letting go of the arrow....

> My GOD, ED!!!! You're being corrupted by Zen Cueism!

> -- jwp

SLOW Y0UR BACK SWING DOWN, THATS THE KIND OF BULL SHE-YIT YOU GET FROM
SOME PHD POST HOLE DIGGER BOZO THAT CAN RUN 3 FRIGGEN BALLS.  Study the
back swing of any pro golfer, there is a whip like, fly cast motion to
it, it speeds up, does not slow down.

Now study the backswings of the 3 greatest players of all time,
Mosconi, Greenleaf and Hoppe, you see the same thing, a wrist flick
that is fast, not slow.  All the greatest players today, do the same
thing.
Yep, you see a pause in women, most of them play a set on TV and dont
run a rack, so what are you studying, some woman who cant play and is
only on there because she has a cute little ass.  Dont study women,
they play like Stiff and robotic, like the monster mash punk boy Eric T
Hu.  He has copied their moves and stomps around like Arnold the
machine in the Terminator.  Do not play mechanically and that is how
any post hole digger will teach you.  They are trying to control every
move rather than just being one with the shot and flowing into it.
Jewie, the head post hole digger goes thru a 17 point check list in his
massive brain before he pulls the trigger and cant play worth a shit.
Efren has no check list, nothing rolling around in his 9 iq pea brain
and plays circles around jewie.  Brains dont mean shit in pool.  Dont
think.  Dont listen to any post hole digger, they will put you into
paralysis by analysis and fook yo game up so bad you will go out and
buy a dress because sally that is how you will begin to play.

Bozos teaching bozos, you get it free, and you get what you pay for,
shit advice that turns your game into shit and you into a loser.  You
want to play, find a real teacher and learn from a trained coach who
knows.

 
 
 

Letting the Arrow Go

Post by Bamb » Thu, 25 Jan 2007 00:30:11

After seeing so many different styles of successful play, I have to
disagree. I am not saying that this technique wont work for you, Ed.  I
just wonder if Ron has even seen you shoot. If not, how can anyone give
stroking advice to someone who already has his own style? The only
universal stroking advice I can think of would be to always follow
through when possible.
I saw one guy(walrus jay) who made a circular motion with the ***end
during pre strokes. Watching that you wouldnt think the guy could sink
a ball, but he ran plenty. I have seen others with herky-jerky strokes,
but deliver the final blow to the cue ball with accuracy. Others I've
seen stand almost upright, have***ed heads, little or no pre-strokes,
weird bridges, or poor form in other aspects.....and still manage to
play well.  I used to think that they did this on purpose, to reel in
the fish. But after getting to know them I could see it was just the
way they shot.
I believe we all have our own styles, and that what might not work for
you could work for others. I'm not saying that nobody can adapt good
habits from others, just that we all have natural, built in talents of
our own. The best way I can compare this would be to a baseball hitter.
I'm sure we have all seen different batting stances and swings that
vary greatly, yet are effective in their own ways.
Quote:

> Ron Shepard advised me to slow my backstroke down a while back to help
> avoid stroke twitch and I thought at the time that was good advice.
> Advice I've heard before too and I always thought i did backstroke
> fairly slowly. I noticed that occasionally i would poke or jerk my
> stroke and so, thinks I, I shall deliberately practice with a super slow
> backstroke to try to defeat the problem.

> Well, the first thing I notice with a real slow backstroke is that the
> cue seems to be almost stroking itself. I just sort of sling it forward
> and it takes care of the rest. Like drawing a bowstring back and just
> letting go of the arrow. It is effortless and I was hitting the spot
> perfectly.

> I guess I was jerking my backstroke too fast all along, even though I
> didn't think so. Odd. I've known this was how to stroke all along and I
> believe I've done this before and had great results but never knew
> exactly what I was doing. Odd to have a revelation about a commonplace
> technique that I already thought I was doing but really wasn't most of
> the time.

> Ed
> --


 
 
 

Letting the Arrow Go

Post by John Blac » Thu, 25 Jan 2007 01:41:44



Quote:
> Ron Shepard advised me to slow my backstroke down a while back to help
> avoid stroke twitch and I thought at the time that was good advice.
> Advice I've heard before too and I always thought i did backstroke
> fairly slowly. I noticed that occasionally i would poke or jerk my
> stroke and so, thinks I, I shall deliberately practice with a super slow
> backstroke to try to defeat the problem.

> Well, the first thing I notice with a real slow backstroke is that the
> cue seems to be almost stroking itself. I just sort of sling it forward
> and it takes care of the rest. Like drawing a bowstring back and just
> letting go of the arrow. It is effortless and I was hitting the spot
> perfectly.

> I guess I was jerking my backstroke too fast all along, even though I
> didn't think so. Odd. I've known this was how to stroke all along and I
> believe I've done this before and had great results but never knew
> exactly what I was doing. Odd to have a revelation about a commonplace
> technique that I already thought I was doing but really wasn't most of
> the time.

Do you also pause before your forward stroke?  If so, the speed of the
backstroke would be less important.  I find that the pause makes the
biggest difference for me in terms of accuracy.

John Black

 
 
 

Letting the Arrow Go

Post by ZenCue.. » Thu, 25 Jan 2007 02:01:54

Quote:


> > Like drawing a bowstring back and just letting go of the arrow....

> My GOD, ED!!!! You're being corrupted by Zen Cueism!

> -- jwp

Ed is finding his footing upon the Path to Enlightenment, Happiness,
Financial Freedom, and Healthy Beauty. Do not lead him astray again. :p

David Hakala
The Zen Cueist
Denver, CO USA

 
 
 

Letting the Arrow Go

Post by ZenCue.. » Thu, 25 Jan 2007 03:43:21

Quote:

> Well, the first thing I notice with a real slow backstroke is that the
> cue seems to be almost stroking itself. I just sort of sling it forward
> and it takes care of the rest. Like drawing a bowstring back and just
> letting go of the arrow. It is effortless and I was hitting the spot perfectly.

You're very, very close to Enlightenment there, Ed. Let me retun to
kyudo - Zen archery - to explain.

A kyudoka (Zen archer) does not "let go of the arrow". He does not
choose the instant of the arrow's release. He would miss the bullseye
if he did, because he would choose the wrong instant for the
ever-changing, incomprehensible conditions of windage, tiny muscle
tremors, and other variables. One kyudo exercise is shooting from the
back of a cantering horse at a target that is swinging from a rope. No
man can choose the right instant to release an arrow under such
conditions.

Instead, the kyudoka lets chi - the life energy that flows through and
connects him to bow, arrow, and target - choose the instant of the
release. Holding the bow at full draw, the kyudoka steadily gathers his
chi in his hara. The chi expands his torso, forcing his hands further
apart and increasing the tension on the string held by his gloved hand.
At the optimum instant, the string pulls itself from his gloved
fingers, and the arrow flies to the target. The kyudoka has no control
over when the arrow will be released. He surrenders himself to the
shot.

Quote:
>From a talk given by a kyudo master in London, 2003:

"This expansion of energy (nobiai) to create the release is unique to
kyudo and is not found in any other form of archery. It is at the heart
of understanding kyudo. When we give ourselves to the effort of the
expansion, then we are in the living moment. To stop this and make a
separate action of release, is a contrived release, and as we cannot
know this actual moment (that the string will free itself from the
glove), only the condition of 'nobiai', then for this moment we are
beyond thinking and the separate person."

Replace "bow" and "string" with "arm" and "cue", respectively. The
arrow is the cue ball, of course.

When you slow your backstroke, you allow your arm to swing naturally,
without the added jerky muscular spasms commanded by your will
(consciously or not). Chi gathers in your hara, and its steadily,
smoothly increasing energy is transmitted to the pendulum of your arm
and cue. Your stroke is not effortless - it is without unnatural
*added* effort.

The cue and arm do indeed "take care of the rest". They choose the
instant in which to overcome your muscles' efforts to check their
forward motion before the cue hits the cue ball. The cue "string" frees
itself from the "gloved fingers" of muscular opposition and sends the
cue ball to its target - without your decision to unleash the full
final stroke.

Meditate upon this wisdom, Grasshopper. See it in your next practice
session.

David Hakala
The Zen Cueist
Denver, CO USA

 
 
 

Letting the Arrow Go

Post by Jack Stei » Thu, 25 Jan 2007 04:38:20

  >>Now the trick is to keep doing it and NOT FORGET.

Quote:
> The Zen way, of course, is to forget it and keep doing it. :-)

Of course this is THE way, not just the ZEN way.  Not that I have
anything against ZEN, but really, it's mostly fancy words explaining
routine, common sense issues.  Still you have armed me with one of my
favorite quotes:

In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's
mind there are few."
~ Shunryu Suzuki-Roshi

This I like a lot, and wanted to thank you for that before I forget...

--
Jack
http://jbstein.com

 
 
 

Letting the Arrow Go

Post by pltrgys » Thu, 25 Jan 2007 06:33:19



Quote:
>Ed is finding his footing upon the Path to Enlightenment, Happiness,
>Financial Freedom, and Healthy Beauty.

Does this path end up at HSN or QVC?

-- Larry (happily reading my new book entitled "Zennis"...)

 
 
 

Letting the Arrow Go

Post by Ed McCun » Thu, 25 Jan 2007 07:18:15

Quote:

> Do you also pause before your forward stroke?  If so, the speed of the
> backstroke would be less important.  I find that the pause makes the
> biggest difference for me in terms of accuracy.

Funny you mention the pause, John. Yes I normally do but it is not a
conscious thing, just something I've always done. Until talk about the
pause I didn't even realize I did it, but....sometimes I don't. One of
the things a slow backstroke does is it makes that pause
consistent...without having to think about it.

Ed

 
 
 

Letting the Arrow Go

Post by Ed McCun » Thu, 25 Jan 2007 07:22:13

Quote:

> When you slow your backstroke, you allow your arm to swing naturally,
> without the added jerky muscular spasms commanded by your will
> (consciously or not). Chi gathers in your hara, and its steadily,
> smoothly increasing energy is transmitted to the pendulum of your arm
> and cue. Your stroke is not effortless - it is without unnatural
> *added* effort.

Out of that whole post, Dave, this is the only part that resonates with
me (if you take out the chi and hara stuff). This is also why Ron
recommended this to me. The slow backstroke eliminates jerkiness and
allows a smoother stroke.

Ed

--

 
 
 

Letting the Arrow Go

Post by Ed McCun » Thu, 25 Jan 2007 07:25:20

Quote:

> After seeing so many different styles of successful play, I have to
> disagree. I am not saying that this technique wont work for you, Ed.  I
> just wonder if Ron has even seen you shoot. If not, how can anyone give
> stroking advice to someone who already has his own style? The only
> universal stroking advice I can think of would be to always follow
> through when possible.

Bambu, Ron's advice was general in nature and given when I was
experiencing a bit of a reoccurring hitch in my stroke a month ago. It
wasn't specific, just given as something that I might try. Ron is our
resident science guy and I go to him for advice on the physical aspect
of things. He was commenting in that vein that a slower backstroke might
eliminate the cause of the hitch.

Ed

--