A nice shot and two improbable ones

A nice shot and two improbable ones

Post by barenad » Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:26:34


Use WEI's pool table to view these shots.  It's at
http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

Detroit Kelly demonstrated this shot a few times this afternoon.

 1 b: OUT
 2 b: OUT
 3 b: OUT
 4 b: OUT
 5 b: OUT
 6 b: OUT
 7 b: OUT
 8 b: OUT
 9 b: OUT
10 b: OUT
11 b: 115, 118
12 b: OUT
13 b: OUT
14 b: OUT
15 b: OUT
 q b: 391, 2

You shoot the cueball directly into the rail it's frozen to.  It rebounds off
the rail and cuts the object ball into the upper left corner.

This shot is an Efren story I've been hearing lately:

 1 b: OUT
 2 b: OUT
 3 b: OUT
 4 b: OUT
 5 b: OUT
 6 b: OUT
 7 b: OUT
 8 b: OUT
 9 b: OUT
10 b: OUT
11 b: 115, 118
12 b: OUT
13 b: OUT
14 b: OUT
15 b: OUT
 q b: 366, 225

Shoot the object ball into the upper left corner AND draw the cueball back to
touch the head rail.  Oh yeah and the cueball doesn't touch any other rail.
This one I'd have to see to believe.  I was told that Efren shoots it with a
level cue.

This last shot, I'm told, is a trademark of a guy around here named Vernon:

 1 b: OUT
 2 b: OUT
 3 b: OUT
 4 b: OUT
 5 b: OUT
 6 b: OUT
 7 b: OUT
 8 b: OUT
 9 b: OUT
10 b: OUT
11 b: 115, 118
12 b: OUT
13 b: OUT
14 b: OUT
15 b: OUT
 q b: 8, 4

Apparently Vernon will cut the object ball into either the upper side pocket or
the lower left corner.  Supposedly this is done with a level cue as well.  I've
heard this story from about 10 different people.

--
Dave

 
 
 

A nice shot and two improbable ones

Post by Thomas Boerne » Sat, 14 Oct 2000 04:00:00

I heard about the Efren shot in a slightly other way, but the difference is very
important. Without touching any other rail it's absolutely impossible to get to the
head rail, especially if you don't use mass. But there's an awefully difficult way
to get to the head rail, but a possible one: Use extreme draw and lots of left
english, drawing the cueball in a slight curve towards the left side rail, then the
english applies and makes the angle to let the cueball travel directly to the head
rail. Now don't say that this is an easy shot, I only personally know one guy who
can make this shot sort of consistently, let's say 1-2 out of 10 shots. I only
managed to do this shot once in my life, after trying several days and ruining my
tip. The problem with this shot is, that you have to hit the object ball as full as
possible, letting the side spin help to pot the ball. Only then you have a chance
that the draw can curve the cueball to the siderail having an angle almost upwards
to the head rail before touching the rail. And only then you have a chance that the
side spin widens this angle so that the cueball can reach the head rail.

It's totaly amazing to watch this shot being played, and you will jump around for
hours when you manage to make it on your own. You need a perfect stroke, very fast,
but perfectly soft, in order to transfer as much spin as ever possible on the
cueball, and you need to hit the object ball perfectly ... I only trust the
magician to perform this shot consistently!!

Best regards, Thomas

Quote:

> This shot is an Efren story I've been hearing lately:

>  1 b: OUT
>  2 b: OUT
>  3 b: OUT
>  4 b: OUT
>  5 b: OUT
>  6 b: OUT
>  7 b: OUT
>  8 b: OUT
>  9 b: OUT
> 10 b: OUT
> 11 b: 115, 118
> 12 b: OUT
> 13 b: OUT
> 14 b: OUT
> 15 b: OUT
>  q b: 366, 225

> Shoot the object ball into the upper left corner AND draw the cueball back to
> touch the head rail.  Oh yeah and the cueball doesn't touch any other rail.
> This one I'd have to see to believe.  I was told that Efren shoots it with a
> level cue.


 
 
 

A nice shot and two improbable ones

Post by Louis Simon » Sat, 14 Oct 2000 04:00:00

Quote:
> It's totaly amazing to watch this shot being played, and you will jump
around for
> hours when you manage to make it on your own. You need a perfect stroke,
very fast,
> but perfectly soft, in order to transfer as much spin as ever possible on
the
> cueball, and you need to hit the object ball perfectly ... I only trust
the
> magician to perform this shot consistently!!

At first glance at the table diagram, it looks "physics-ly" impossible.  I
guess not.
I gotta try it.

-louis

 
 
 

A nice shot and two improbable ones

Post by Patrick Johnso » Sat, 14 Oct 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

>>the draw can curve the cueball to the siderail having an angle
>>almost upwards to the head rail before touching the rail. And
>>only then you have a chance that the side spin widens this angle
>>so that the cueball can reach the head rail.

> ... it looks "physics-ly" impossible.

I agree with Louis (eek!).  Thomas' idea (curving the cue ball to
improve the angle) might work with the cue ball at the side pocket
(straight in shot) and using *right* english, but it makes no sense to
me the way he described it.  Sorry, Thomas, I gotta see the tape.

(Another urban pool hall legend...)
Pat Johnson
Chicago

 
 
 

A nice shot and two improbable ones

Post by Fred Agni » Sat, 14 Oct 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

>Use WEI's pool table to view these shots.  It's at
>http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

At the US 14.1 Open, Efren shot something similar to the following with a
level cuestick.

 1 b: OUT
 2 b: OUT
 3 b: OUT
 4 b: OUT
 5 b: OUT
 6 b: OUT
 7 b: OUT
 8 b: OUT
 9 b: OUT
10 b: 203, 173
11 b: 229, 49
12 b: OUT
13 b: OUT
14 b: OUT
15 b: OUT
 q b: 169, 93

Shooting the 11 in the side, the cueball draws in an arc back to about where
the 10-ball sits.  Oohs and aahs from the crowd.

Fred

 
 
 

A nice shot and two improbable ones

Post by Sherm Adamso » Sat, 14 Oct 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> Apparently Vernon will cut the object ball into either the upper side pocket or
> the lower left corner.  Supposedly this is done with a level cue as well.  I've
> heard this story from about 10 different people.

> --
> Dave

Dave,
I asked Vernon about this shot once. His reply was that it was a "crazy shot" and
you just had to be crazy enough to make it!
If you bet high enough, I'm told he'll make it without the cueball touching a rail!
He jumps the CB at the OB coming down on the OB with "kill" english!  Stronger than
cat shit, but ole Vernon is a true legend. He's busted more suckers with his
proposition shots than anyone ever played the game. If he told me he was going to
bounce the cueball off the moon, I'd get on a helmet for protection from the lunar
meteors that would be forthcoming!
8^)
Sherm
--

     Sherm Custom Cues
       by Sherman "Sherm" Adamson
       3352 Nine Mile Road, Cincinnati, Ohio 45255
          Shop (513) 553-2172 Cell (513) 237-1152

       http://www.shermcue.com
   (Webpage Constantly Under Construction)
         proud member "American Cuemakers Association"

 
 
 

A nice shot and two improbable ones

Post by Greg Mille » Sat, 14 Oct 2000 04:00:00


..

Quote:


> >Use WEI's pool table to view these shots.  It's at
> >http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

> At the US 14.1 Open, Efren shot something similar to the
following with a
> level cuestick.

>  1 b: OUT
>  2 b: OUT
>  3 b: OUT
>  4 b: OUT
>  5 b: OUT
>  6 b: OUT
>  7 b: OUT
>  8 b: OUT
>  9 b: OUT
> 10 b: 203, 173
> 11 b: 229, 49
> 12 b: OUT
> 13 b: OUT
> 14 b: OUT
> 15 b: OUT
>  q b: 169, 93

> Shooting the 11 in the side, the cueball draws in an arc
back to about where
> the 10-ball sits.  Oohs and aahs from the crowd.

> Fred

 
 
 

A nice shot and two improbable ones

Post by Bob Jewet » Sat, 14 Oct 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> Detroit Kelly demonstrated this shot a few times this afternoon.

[cue ball frozen to the side on the headstring, object ball on the
spot]

Quote:
> You shoot the cueball directly into the rail it's frozen to.  It rebounds off
> the rail and cuts the object ball into the upper left corner.

This is one of my road shots.  I shot it recently with the additional
requirement that the cue ball must not hit a cushion after it pockets
the spotted ball.  I made it on the ninth or tenth of ten tries the
first go, and then on the first try of the next set.  I gave back the
jelly beans trying to leave the cue ball above the spot after the shot.

It is fairly easy to keep the cue ball from drifting forward more than a
diamond after contact if you shoot with draw.  Pick out a spot on the
wall and adjust accordingly.  You must shoot firmly, or the draw will
not hold clear to the object ball.  Because the cue ball will be curving
on the way to the object ball, speed control is critical.

If you're feeling lucky, add the additional flourish of looking away
while you shoot.

A similar shot is to move the object ball to the middle of the foot
rail and again play the cue ball into the side cushion.  Use center ball
or maybe a little running english to cut the object ball along the foot
rail.  Also done while looking away, or better, looking down at where the
shaft is crossing the rail to get your aim.

--

Bob Jewett

 
 
 

A nice shot and two improbable ones

Post by Bob Jewet » Sat, 14 Oct 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> Shoot the object ball into the upper left corner AND draw the cueball back to
> touch the head rail.  Oh yeah and the cueball doesn't touch any other rail.
> This one I'd have to see to believe.  I was told that Efren shoots it with a
> level cue.

So, it's a spot shot, and the first cushion the cue ball hits is the
head cushion.  He can bust me with this one.

The shot is probably the one Thomas mentioned:  side cushion then head
cushion.  Many years ago there was a pool hall in Berkeley named the
Blue Cue (Bucktooth and Cole played there) and one of the hou*** could
make this shot one in ten or so.  If you want to try it, get the
lightest cue ball you can find, and make sure the side cushion is
sticky.

[beyond-90-degree cut shot]

Quote:
> Apparently Vernon will cut the object ball into either the upper side pocket or
> the lower left corner.  Supposedly this is done with a level cue as well.  I've
> heard this story from about 10 different people.

I would pay to see this.  I wonder how many tries he asks for.

--

Bob Jewett

 
 
 

A nice shot and two improbable ones

Post by frank how » Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:49:50

Bob,
I have watched Vernon shoot this ball a few times
and he's gotten different amounts of shots- but ive NEVER
seen him not get the green. I think sometimes he might miss the first few
on purpose if he was given a lot of shots.However, I have never seen him
shoot
it without hiting a rail.BTW he is one of the best bankers
ever imho. Wish he would share his system. I ve been told he
has a method that is different.
Frank Howe


Quote:

> > Shoot the object ball into the upper left corner AND draw the cueball
back to
> > touch the head rail.  Oh yeah and the cueball doesn't touch any other
rail.
> > This one I'd have to see to believe.  I was told that Efren shoots it
with a
> > level cue.

> So, it's a spot shot, and the first cushion the cue ball hits is the
> head cushion.  He can bust me with this one.

> The shot is probably the one Thomas mentioned:  side cushion then head
> cushion.  Many years ago there was a pool hall in Berkeley named the
> Blue Cue (Bucktooth and Cole played there) and one of the hou*** could
> make this shot one in ten or so.  If you want to try it, get the
> lightest cue ball you can find, and make sure the side cushion is
> sticky.

> [beyond-90-degree cut shot]
> > Apparently Vernon will cut the object ball into either the upper side
pocket or
> > the lower left corner.  Supposedly this is done with a level cue as
well.  I've
> > heard this story from about 10 different people.

> I would pay to see this.  I wonder how many tries he asks for.

> --

> Bob Jewett

 
 
 

A nice shot and two improbable ones

Post by Joey » Wed, 18 Oct 2000 04:00:00

Is this Vernon Elliott?
JoeyA


Quote:
> Bob,
> I have watched Vernon shoot this ball a few times
> and he's gotten different amounts of shots- but ive NEVER
> seen him not get the green. I think sometimes he might miss the first few
> on purpose if he was given a lot of shots.However, I have never seen him
> shoot
> it without hiting a rail.BTW he is one of the best bankers
> ever imho. Wish he would share his system. I ve been told he
> has a method that is different.
> Frank Howe




> > > Shoot the object ball into the upper left corner AND draw the cueball
> back to
> > > touch the head rail.  Oh yeah and the cueball doesn't touch any other
> rail.
> > > This one I'd have to see to believe.  I was told that Efren shoots it
> with a
> > > level cue.

> > So, it's a spot shot, and the first cushion the cue ball hits is the
> > head cushion.  He can bust me with this one.

> > The shot is probably the one Thomas mentioned:  side cushion then head
> > cushion.  Many years ago there was a pool hall in Berkeley named the
> > Blue Cue (Bucktooth and Cole played there) and one of the hou*** could
> > make this shot one in ten or so.  If you want to try it, get the
> > lightest cue ball you can find, and make sure the side cushion is
> > sticky.

> > [beyond-90-degree cut shot]
> > > Apparently Vernon will cut the object ball into either the upper side
> pocket or
> > > the lower left corner.  Supposedly this is done with a level cue as
> well.  I've
> > > heard this story from about 10 different people.

> > I would pay to see this.  I wonder how many tries he asks for.

> > --

> > Bob Jewett

 
 
 

A nice shot and two improbable ones

Post by frank how » Wed, 18 Oct 2000 04:00:00

Yes thats the one that Im referring to. He is
older now but can still play very well.
frank


Quote:
> Is this Vernon Elliott?
> JoeyA



> > Bob,
> > I have watched Vernon shoot this ball a few times
> > and he's gotten different amounts of shots- but ive NEVER
> > seen him not get the green. I think sometimes he might miss the first
few
> > on purpose if he was given a lot of shots.However, I have never seen him
> > shoot
> > it without hiting a rail.BTW he is one of the best bankers
> > ever imho. Wish he would share his system. I ve been told he
> > has a method that is different.
> > Frank Howe




> > > > Shoot the object ball into the upper left corner AND draw the
cueball
> > back to
> > > > touch the head rail.  Oh yeah and the cueball doesn't touch any
other
> > rail.
> > > > This one I'd have to see to believe.  I was told that Efren shoots
it
> > with a
> > > > level cue.

> > > So, it's a spot shot, and the first cushion the cue ball hits is the
> > > head cushion.  He can bust me with this one.

> > > The shot is probably the one Thomas mentioned:  side cushion then head
> > > cushion.  Many years ago there was a pool hall in Berkeley named the
> > > Blue Cue (Bucktooth and Cole played there) and one of the hou***
could
> > > make this shot one in ten or so.  If you want to try it, get the
> > > lightest cue ball you can find, and make sure the side cushion is
> > > sticky.

> > > [beyond-90-degree cut shot]
> > > > Apparently Vernon will cut the object ball into either the upper
side
> > pocket or
> > > > the lower left corner.  Supposedly this is done with a level cue as
> > well.  I've
> > > > heard this story from about 10 different people.

> > > I would pay to see this.  I wonder how many tries he asks for.

> > > --

> > > Bob Jewett

 
 
 

A nice shot and two improbable ones

Post by Joey » Thu, 19 Oct 2000 04:00:00

Thanks Frank,  I have heard many stories about Vernon Elliott's banking
prowess.  Some of the stories are hard to believe.  But my daddy always told
me if a man told you he had a frog in his pocket, you had better not bet him
that he doesn't.

It would be a privilege to witness his legendary banking.  Where does he
live and what pool hall does he play in?  Does he play every day?  I might
make a trip there just to see him.
Thanks,
Joey Aguzin
New Orleans


Quote:
> Yes thats the one that Im referring to. He is
> older now but can still play very well.
> frank



> > Is this Vernon Elliott?
> > JoeyA



> > > Bob,
> > > I have watched Vernon shoot this ball a few times
> > > and he's gotten different amounts of shots- but ive NEVER
> > > seen him not get the green. I think sometimes he might miss the first
> few
> > > on purpose if he was given a lot of shots.However, I have never seen
him
> > > shoot
> > > it without hiting a rail.BTW he is one of the best bankers
> > > ever imho. Wish he would share his system. I ve been told he
> > > has a method that is different.
> > > Frank Howe




> > > > > Shoot the object ball into the upper left corner AND draw the
> cueball
> > > back to
> > > > > touch the head rail.  Oh yeah and the cueball doesn't touch any
> other
> > > rail.
> > > > > This one I'd have to see to believe.  I was told that Efren shoots
> it
> > > with a
> > > > > level cue.

> > > > So, it's a spot shot, and the first cushion the cue ball hits is the
> > > > head cushion.  He can bust me with this one.

> > > > The shot is probably the one Thomas mentioned:  side cushion then
head
> > > > cushion.  Many years ago there was a pool hall in Berkeley named the
> > > > Blue Cue (Bucktooth and Cole played there) and one of the hou***
> could
> > > > make this shot one in ten or so.  If you want to try it, get the
> > > > lightest cue ball you can find, and make sure the side cushion is
> > > > sticky.

> > > > [beyond-90-degree cut shot]
> > > > > Apparently Vernon will cut the object ball into either the upper
> side
> > > pocket or
> > > > > the lower left corner.  Supposedly this is done with a level cue
as
> > > well.  I've
> > > > > heard this story from about 10 different people.

> > > > I would pay to see this.  I wonder how many tries he asks for.

> > > > --

> > > > Bob Jewett

 
 
 

A nice shot and two improbable ones

Post by 43Fa » Thu, 19 Oct 2000 04:00:00

Ok, the real "newbie" here again.. how do I go about laying this out? I'm
guessing it's some kind of grid system? OUT means ball is pocketed?  Love to
be able to lay this out and see the shots you're talking about. :)

Thanks!


Quote:
> Use WEI's pool table to view these shots.  It's at
> http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

> Detroit Kelly demonstrated this shot a few times this afternoon.

>  1 b: OUT
>  2 b: OUT
>  3 b: OUT
>  4 b: OUT
>  5 b: OUT
>  6 b: OUT
>  7 b: OUT
>  8 b: OUT
>  9 b: OUT
> 10 b: OUT
> 11 b: 115, 118
> 12 b: OUT
> 13 b: OUT
> 14 b: OUT
> 15 b: OUT
>  q b: 391, 2

> You shoot the cueball directly into the rail it's frozen to.  It rebounds
off
> the rail and cuts the object ball into the upper left corner.

> This shot is an Efren story I've been hearing lately:

>  1 b: OUT
>  2 b: OUT
>  3 b: OUT
>  4 b: OUT
>  5 b: OUT
>  6 b: OUT
>  7 b: OUT
>  8 b: OUT
>  9 b: OUT
> 10 b: OUT
> 11 b: 115, 118
> 12 b: OUT
> 13 b: OUT
> 14 b: OUT
> 15 b: OUT
>  q b: 366, 225

> Shoot the object ball into the upper left corner AND draw the cueball back
to
> touch the head rail.  Oh yeah and the cueball doesn't touch any other
rail.
> This one I'd have to see to believe.  I was told that Efren shoots it with
a
> level cue.

> This last shot, I'm told, is a trademark of a guy around here named
Vernon:

>  1 b: OUT
>  2 b: OUT
>  3 b: OUT
>  4 b: OUT
>  5 b: OUT
>  6 b: OUT
>  7 b: OUT
>  8 b: OUT
>  9 b: OUT
> 10 b: OUT
> 11 b: 115, 118
> 12 b: OUT
> 13 b: OUT
> 14 b: OUT
> 15 b: OUT
>  q b: 8, 4

> Apparently Vernon will cut the object ball into either the upper side
pocket or
> the lower left corner.  Supposedly this is done with a level cue as well.
I've
> heard this story from about 10 different people.

> --
> Dave