soft tips Vs hard tips....

soft tips Vs hard tips....

Post by 23m.. » Mon, 08 Jan 2001 13:38:25


what difference will one see in squirt, solid hit, ability to do english
, power shot and draw shot  when one uses a hard tip as opposed to soft
tip . .

Efren Reyes I was told uses a Elk master tip which is considered a soft
tip. Im not sure if this has something to do with style of play which
is finnesse and also the fact that he prefers a heavier cue. of about
21 oz and 12mm shaft almost straight for 15 or 16 inches. In fact when I
asked the sports shop here in Philippines they say more people buy Elk
master. Maybe this has something to do with idolizing Efren but then
agian maybe it best suits the style of play of many Filipinos.

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soft tips Vs hard tips....

Post by Yukon E » Tue, 09 Jan 2001 00:22:09

The softer Elk Master tip is better for the playing conditions found
in the Philippines.  Outdoor tables with cloth like a shag rug coupled
with the high humidity contribute to the likelihood of miscueing with
a hard tip.  BTW, most Filipino players that use the Elk Master place
it in a vice prior to installation--this slightly hardens the tip
while still maintaining the "grab" the tip allows.  

Yukon Ed

Quote:

>what difference will one see in squirt, solid hit, ability to do english
>, power shot and draw shot  when one uses a hard tip as opposed to soft
>tip . .

>Efren Reyes I was told uses a Elk master tip which is considered a soft
>tip. Im not sure if this has something to do with style of play which
>is finnesse and also the fact that he prefers a heavier cue. of about
>21 oz and 12mm shaft almost straight for 15 or 16 inches. In fact when I
>asked the sports shop here in Philippines they say more people buy Elk
>master. Maybe this has something to do with idolizing Efren but then
>agian maybe it best suits the style of play of many Filipinos.

>Sent via Deja.com
>http://www.deja.com/


 
 
 

soft tips Vs hard tips....

Post by Ken Bou » Tue, 09 Jan 2001 03:04:15

By the way, with the recent tip hardness testing done by Tony Matthews, I
don't think you can state reliably that Elk Masters produces "soft" tips.
The range of hardness in Elk Masters is pretty wide, as I recall, and about
on par with the other brands tested.

Ken Bour

Quote:

> what difference will one see in squirt, solid hit, ability to do english
> , power shot and draw shot  when one uses a hard tip as opposed to soft
> tip . .

> Efren Reyes I was told uses a Elk master tip which is considered a soft
> tip. Im not sure if this has something to do with style of play which
> is finnesse and also the fact that he prefers a heavier cue. of about
> 21 oz and 12mm shaft almost straight for 15 or 16 inches. In fact when I
> asked the sports shop here in Philippines they say more people buy Elk
> master. Maybe this has something to do with idolizing Efren but then
> agian maybe it best suits the style of play of many Filipinos.

> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/


 
 
 

soft tips Vs hard tips....

Post by frank how » Tue, 09 Jan 2001 03:06:36

I happen to know a couple of people who know efren, parica, luat and
some of the others and was surprised to here what they wanted done with
their
tips. They took elkmaster tips and soaked them in half-and half milk for
24 hours then into a vice for another 24 then finally on to the cue. I have
been to
probably 3 poolrooms that sold these tips but never have tried one. It seems
kinda
odd to me. Might be true might not.
frank howe
Quote:

> The softer Elk Master tip is better for the playing conditions found
> in the Philippines.  Outdoor tables with cloth like a shag rug coupled
> with the high humidity contribute to the likelihood of miscueing with
> a hard tip.  BTW, most Filipino players that use the Elk Master place
> it in a vice prior to installation--this slightly hardens the tip
> while still maintaining the "grab" the tip allows.

> Yukon Ed


> >what difference will one see in squirt, solid hit, ability to do english
> >, power shot and draw shot  when one uses a hard tip as opposed to soft
> >tip . .

> >Efren Reyes I was told uses a Elk master tip which is considered a soft
> >tip. Im not sure if this has something to do with style of play which
> >is finnesse and also the fact that he prefers a heavier cue. of about
> >21 oz and 12mm shaft almost straight for 15 or 16 inches. In fact when I
> >asked the sports shop here in Philippines they say more people buy Elk
> >master. Maybe this has something to do with idolizing Efren but then
> >agian maybe it best suits the style of play of many Filipinos.

> >Sent via Deja.com
> >http://www.deja.com/

 
 
 

soft tips Vs hard tips....

Post by Golden Ai » Tue, 09 Jan 2001 03:12:16

On the lighter side;

 I lived in the Philippines for 2-1/2 + years back in 1977.

The conditions at the pool & billiard parlors were unlike ANY establishment
in the USA. I frequented a few of the parlors (some other than pool &
billiards, but that's a completely different NG!) & used a few cues off the
wall (literally!).

The best cues that were available were the ones that had the smallest head
of the finishing nail protruding from the dead center of the tip that held
them on!!!

Do you think that maybe this is one of the reasons why Efren plays english
so well? Try practicing NEVER contacting the cue ball with the center of the
tip for 5 or 10 years! You'll either give up or give weight!!!!

Oh, did I mention the splintered cues with NO ferrules or tips? Try that for
a while!

These conditions are no problem for them! It's a way of Pool & Billiards
life!

So the next-time you're in the Philippines, go off the un-beaten path, back
into the Barrios & find yourself a cozy open-air pool table. Grab yourself a
broomstick & take on one of the locals.

And remember, U.S. dollars are accepted graciously & take up a lot less
space in the pockets of the Philippino pool player - the conversion rate is
approximately 45 to 1!!!!

Ed
http://www.scottiscuffer.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quote:

> what difference will one see in squirt, solid hit, ability to do english
> , power shot and draw shot  when one uses a hard tip as opposed to soft
> tip . .

> Efren Reyes I was told uses a Elk master tip which is considered a soft
> tip. Im not sure if this has something to do with style of play which
> is finnesse and also the fact that he prefers a heavier cue. of about
> 21 oz and 12mm shaft almost straight for 15 or 16 inches. In fact when I
> asked the sports shop here in Philippines they say more people buy Elk
> master. Maybe this has something to do with idolizing Efren but then
> agian maybe it best suits the style of play of many Filipinos.

> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

 
 
 

soft tips Vs hard tips....

Post by Tony Mathew » Tue, 09 Jan 2001 16:58:18

Quote:

> I happen to know a couple of people who know efren, parica, luat and
> some of the others and was surprised to here what they wanted done with
> their
> tips. They took elkmaster tips and soaked them in half-and half milk for
> 24 hours then into a vice for another 24 then finally on to the cue. I have
> been to
> probably 3 poolrooms that sold these tips but never have tried one. It seems
> kinda
> odd to me. Might be true might not.
> frank howe

I don't know what they soak them in, but the use of a vice to harden an
Elkmaster (and other tips as well) is more common than you might think. Snooker
players often use the Elkmaster, but again I am usually asked to harden the tip
before use. BTW, several pro Snooker players have E-mailed me that they find
only 6 to 8 useable Elkmaster tips in a box of 50! I think that they are looking
for tips in the harder range. Also, my tests indicate that compressing the tip
gives at least double the yield of high quality tips.

So why would anyone use an Elkmaster? After compressing (and treating with milk
or whatever), the tip plays more like a medium firm tip. They hold chalk
extremely well, so miscues are reduced, and they last and last! I have seen
treated and compressed Elkmasters last for over a year of  7 day a week playing.
In general it is a very forgiving tip.

Tony

 
 
 

soft tips Vs hard tips....

Post by 23m.. » Tue, 09 Jan 2001 18:49:14

If you compress and treat a Elkmaster to have it become med hard tip
why not just get a Traingle or LePro which is already medium hard
and if compressing will make it harder to a point beyond what you may
like then either reduce compress time or dont compress at all Right ?
As you say only 6 or 8 are usable in 50

As far as the milk as treatment what advantage would that give ?

Hmm  Non fat , skim milk, evaporated milk , I'll go with non fat since
I'm on a diet . :-)

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soft tips Vs hard tips....

Post by Tony Mathew » Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:37:19

Quote:

> what difference will one see in squirt, solid hit, ability to do english
> , power shot and draw shot  when one uses a hard tip as opposed to soft
> tip . .

I think that the tips' ability to hold chalk has more to do with the success
of these shots than the intial hardness. All tips harden with use. A good
hard tip can draw the ball as well as a good soft tip. But you may lose a
little speed with the soft tip absorbing some of the energy, which is why a
hard tip is reccommended for breaking. Soft tips tend to miscue less often
then hard tips. If you can't always get good American chalk, then get a
softer tip.

Tony

 
 
 

soft tips Vs hard tips....

Post by Tony Mathew » Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:40:47

Quote:

> If you compress and treat a Elkmaster to have it become med hard tip
> why not just get a Traingle or LePro which is already medium hard

A medium hard Elkmaster plays different than any other medium hard tip.
You would have to try them to see.

Quote:

> and if compressing will make it harder to a point beyond what you may
> like then either reduce compress time or dont compress at all Right ?

Well even if you don't compress the tip it will still get hard over time
as you hit balls. So this won't work. And I don't think that you can
compress an Elkmaster so much that it becomes "too" hard.

Quote:

> As far as the milk as treatment what advantage would that give ?

I'm not sure what the milk does. I use my own potion made from glycerin,
*** and a little dry skin lotion. I think it helps to soak into and
then consolidate the fibers of the tip. Elkmasters have a tendency to
shred when too dry.
 
 
 

soft tips Vs hard tips....

Post by 23m.. » Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:44:51

How do yo make your potion if the whole solution is 100% is it like
70% glycerin , 20% *** and 10 % dry skin lotion. Do you dip your
tip in this solution for 24 hrs, then let it dry for 24 hrs and then
put on vice for another 24 hrs?  What advantage do you get by dipping
it to solution ? Thanks

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soft tips Vs hard tips....

Post by RWMC » Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:01:55

Someone (I think it was Palmer Byrd) once told me about going over to
Balabushkas place for a cue and seeing a bunch of tips soaking in milk.  I do
not understand the point of this, which is like a homemade tanning kind of
thing, I guess.  But can you  retan leather like refrying beans?
 
 
 

soft tips Vs hard tips....

Post by Mark » Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:33:38

Well..... White glue such as Elmer's are casein (milk) based.  Ever notice
how hard dried white glue is?

Mark0  <--the theory makes sense to me


Quote:
> Someone (I think it was Palmer Byrd) once told me about going over to
> Balabushkas place for a cue and seeing a bunch of tips soaking in milk.  I
do
> not understand the point of this, which is like a homemade tanning kind of
> thing, I guess.  But can you  retan leather like refrying beans?

 
 
 

soft tips Vs hard tips....

Post by Tony Mathew » Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:32:28

Quote:

> Someone (I think it was Palmer Byrd) once told me about going over to
> Balabushkas place for a cue and seeing a bunch of tips soaking in milk.  I do
> not understand the point of this, which is like a homemade tanning kind of
> thing, I guess.  But can you  retan leather like refrying beans?

Actually it is not like tanning at all. I'm not sure that milk is the best
solution, but the idea is to add some moisture into the leather and at the same
time create a firm matrix that tends to hold the fibers together. It works the
best with leather tips that tend to dry out and crumble, like Elkmasters or
Waterbuffalo. Pigskin doesn't seem to need this treatment as much.

Tony

 
 
 

soft tips Vs hard tips....

Post by Tony Mathew » Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:34:45

Quote:

> How do yo make your potion if the whole solution is 100% is it like
> 70% glycerin , 20% *** and 10 % dry skin lotion. Do you dip your
> tip in this solution for 24 hrs, then let it dry for 24 hrs and then
> put on vice for another 24 hrs?  What advantage do you get by dipping
> it to solution ? Thanks

Actually closer to 50% glycerin, 40% isopropyl *** and 10% dry skin
lotion. I soak the tip for an hour, and then compress the tip for a few
hours. The compression forces the solution into the tip. This leaves the
tip firm and yet resilient.

Tony