snooker rule question

snooker rule question

Post by J. W. Schnai » Fri, 16 Aug 1996 04:00:00


What happens if, after all the reds are potted, a scratch is made as the
2, 3 or 4 is potted? Do you, using the 2 as an example, re-spot the 2
and shoot it with cue ball in-hand from within the D, leave it down and
shoot the 3, or are you considered snookered from within the D if the 2,
3 or 4 are on their respective spots and they are the next ball on. In
other words, can the 2, 3 or 4 be hit from within the D when the cue
ball is in-hand and shot from within the D and the 2, 3 or 4 are
actually on their spots, which are right on the D?

I can't seem to garner this from the rules as I read them. I'm probably
just ignorant. :{

Thanks for any help!

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snooker rule question

Post by Peter Grogo » Fri, 16 Aug 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
>What happens if, after all the reds are potted, a scratch is made as the
>2, 3 or 4 is potted? Do you, using the 2 as an example, re-spot the 2
>and shoot it with cue ball in-hand from within the D, leave it down and
>shoot the 3, or are you considered snookered from within the D if the 2,
>3 or 4 are on their respective spots and they are the next ball on. In
>other words, can the 2, 3 or 4 be hit from within the D when the cue
>ball is in-hand and shot from within the D and the 2, 3 or 4 are
>actually on their spots, which are right on the D?

If there are no reds on the table, and the player pots a colour and
scratches (goes in-off), the colour is re-spotted and the other player
plays from within the D.  It is certainly legal to hit the yellow,
green, and brown from the D when they are on their spots.

In "Teach Yourself Snooker", John Spencer starts his discussion of
positional play by assuming that the colours are on their spots and
the cue ball is in-hand.

Peter

 
 
 

snooker rule question

Post by Nathan Web » Sat, 17 Aug 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> In other words, can the 2, 3 or 4 be hit from within the D when the
> cue ball is in-hand and shot from within the D and the 2, 3 or 4 are
> actually on their spots, which are right on the D?

I think that you must have the impression that either
        1.  You can NOT shoot at any ball within the D
        2.  You can NOT shoot at a ball within baulk (behind the line) without
first crossing the line.

These are both WRONG!

You may shoot in any direction from the D, and at any ball (provided
that it is on, of course).

Therefore, follow the rules literally:
        Respot the ball (coloured ball potted on foul stroke)
        shoot from the D (following scratch)

Here's a question that has just occured to me.
Maybe Jarri can help us here, or it's not covered in the rules.

What happens if the white is spotted, and the ENTIRE D is occupied.

OK, so it's not going to happen, but imagine that!

Nathan Webb

 
 
 

snooker rule question

Post by Flemming Koch Jens » Sat, 17 Aug 1996 04:00:00



Quote:
>What happens if, after all the reds are potted, a scratch is made as the
>2, 3 or 4 is potted? Do you, using the 2 as an example, re-spot the 2
>and shoot it with cue ball in-hand from within the D, leave it down and
>shoot the 3, or are you considered snookered from within the D if the 2,
>3 or 4 are on their respective spots and they are the next ball on. In
>other words, can the 2, 3 or 4 be hit from within the D when the cue
>ball is in-hand and shot from within the D and the 2, 3 or 4 are
>actually on their spots, which are right on the D?

example: Yellow ball is on.

if you make a foul and bother yellow ball and the queball comes to
rest on the bed of the table, no balls are repositioned, the next
player plays from the new position.

if you make a foul by sending the cueball into a pocket, and the
yellow ball remains on the table, the next player gets ball in hand,
if he is snookered on yellow ball no matter where he positions the
cueball on the lines of or inside the D, there is a free ball.

if you make a foul by sending the cueball into the pocket and also
pots the yellow ball, the next player gets ball in hand and the yellow
ball is spoted, if the cueball is snookered as described above, then
there is a free ball.

You are not ignorant!!!

BTW:
An idea comes to my mind. What about positioning the cueball touching
the yellow ball, and have a touching ball, witch to send behind some
other ball for a snooker. IS THIS LEGAL? (I don't think so, because
one would be concidered to be touching the yellow ball with some
device = the yellow ball)

 
 
 

snooker rule question

Post by Peter Grogo » Sat, 17 Aug 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>What happens if the white is spotted, and the ENTIRE D is occupied.

My rules:
 1) Take a polaroid photo of the table.
 2) Get it signed by three independent witnesses.
 3) Send it to the Guiness Book of Records.

Peter

 
 
 

snooker rule question

Post by Michael Prewit » Sun, 18 Aug 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


>> In other words, can the 2, 3 or 4 be hit from within the D when the
>> cue ball is in-hand and shot from within the D and the 2, 3 or 4 are
>> actually on their spots, which are right on the D?

>I think that you must have the impression that either
>    1.  You can NOT shoot at any ball within the D
>    2.  You can NOT shoot at a ball within baulk (behind the line) without
>first crossing the line.

>These are both WRONG!

>You may shoot in any direction from the D, and at any ball (provided
>that it is on, of course).

>Therefore, follow the rules literally:
>    Respot the ball (coloured ball potted on foul stroke)
>    shoot from the D (following scratch)

>Here's a question that has just occured to me.
>Maybe Jarri can help us here, or it's not covered in the rules.

>What happens if the white is spotted, and the ENTIRE D is occupied.

>OK, so it's not going to happen, but imagine that!

>Nathan Webb

Nathan,

   If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the play with
ball in-hand has the opportunity of passing and thus resulting
in his/her opponent in trying to make the shot. I'll have to
look this one up in my Snooker book.

Mike

 
 
 

snooker rule question

Post by Peter Grogo » Sun, 18 Aug 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>   If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the play with
>ball in-hand has the opportunity of passing and thus resulting
>in his/her opponent in trying to make the shot. I'll have to
>look this one up in my Snooker book.

Right.  The 1991 rules say:

" ... the player who committed the foul ... has to play again if requested
by the next player.  Once such a request has been made it cannot be withdrawn."

But this does not affect what happens withthe cue-ball in hand: the player
must put the cue-ball in the D (if it's not full of other balls) and try
to hit any ball that is "on".

Peter

Quote:

>Mike

 
 
 

snooker rule question

Post by Michael Prewit » Mon, 19 Aug 1996 04:00:00

Hi, Peter:

   Thanks for the clarification. When I posted my reply, I
was recalling an incident in an earlier 1980s snooker match
between Alex Higgins and Terri Griffins. Alex committed a foul
and proceeded to argue with the referee. Being the good
sportsman, Terri deferred the next shot opportunity to Alex.

I only recall this as I had never seen this before, or seen.

Mike

 
 
 

snooker rule question

Post by Jari Kok » Tue, 20 Aug 1996 04:00:00



Quote:
>What happens if the white is spotted, and the ENTIRE D is occupied.

>OK, so it's not going to happen, but imagine that!

Well, I thought of that one about the same time I tried the other
similar thing with lining up the balls to cover the center line of the
table: I tried it, and the 22 balls are not enough to take up all the
space in the D, not even close.

But it's definitely possible to be snookered on the yellow, when
the cue ball is in-hand and the yellow is on its spot, that only takes
two colours...

Jari Kokko

 
 
 

snooker rule question

Post by Nathan Web » Tue, 20 Aug 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> BTW:
> An idea comes to my mind. What about positioning the cueball touching
> the yellow ball, and have a touching ball, witch to send behind some
> other ball for a snooker. IS THIS LEGAL? (I don't think so, because
> one would be concidered to be touching the yellow ball with some
> device = the yellow ball)

This would have to be a foul, as it is a foul to touch an object ball,
not simply to move it.  This is a common misconception amongst many
players (especially those who never play competitive frames with
markers).  Even if one of the hairs on your arm touches a ball, it is a
foul.  I've never seen this sort of foul called, but it could be.

In the process of moving the cue-ball to touch the yellow, you are
commiting a foul.

Nathan Webb

 
 
 

snooker rule question

Post by Nathan Web » Tue, 20 Aug 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


> >Here's a question that has just occured to me.
> >Maybe Jarri can help us here, or it's not covered in the rules.

> >What happens if the white is spotted, and the ENTIRE D is occupied.

> >OK, so it's not going to happen, but imagine that!

> >Nathan Webb

> Nathan,

>    If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the play with
> ball in-hand has the opportunity of passing and thus resulting
> in his/her opponent in trying to make the shot. I'll have to
> look this one up in my Snooker book.

> Mike

Please do!

My actual question was phrased badly, however.  I meant to ask where the
white would be spotted.  If the entire D is occupied, then it can't
return to the D, so where to?  Maybe the blue spot.

Nathan Webb

 
 
 

snooker rule question

Post by Csaba Mark » Thu, 22 Aug 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
> But it's definitely possible to be snookered on the yellow, when
> the cue ball is in-hand and the yellow is on its spot, that only takes
> two colours...

Well, the yellow and another colour, that's two (maybe it was meant
this way).

To be clear: one colour is enough if it's placed, for example, next to
the yellow towards the brown spot. Then you can't hit the left side of
the yellow, no matter where you place the white within the D, so it's
a snooker.

Csaba

 
 
 

snooker rule question

Post by Michael Prewit » Sat, 24 Aug 1996 04:00:00

Nathan,

   Several responses were posted about this question. In one of
them, I believe some one confirmed that on a regulation snooker
table (12' X 6'), it was impossible to completely fill the D
with all 21 balls.

Mike

 
 
 

snooker rule question

Post by Flemming Koch Jens » Sat, 24 Aug 1996 04:00:00

On Mon, 19 Aug 1996 23:21:44 +1100, Nathan Webb

Quote:


>> BTW:
>> An idea comes to my mind. What about positioning the cueball touching
>> the yellow ball, and have a touching ball, witch to send behind some
>> other ball for a snooker. IS THIS LEGAL? (I don't think so, because
>> one would be concidered to be touching the yellow ball with some
>> device = the yellow ball)

>This would have to be a foul, as it is a foul to touch an object ball,
>not simply to move it.  This is a common misconception amongst many
>players (especially those who never play competitive frames with
>markers).  Even if one of the hairs on your arm touches a ball, it is a
>foul.  I've never seen this sort of foul called, but it could be.

>In the process of moving the cue-ball to touch the yellow, you are
>commiting a foul.

>Nathan Webb

I'm sorry about my mistyping. It is placing the cueball (ball in hand)
with our hand nextto, and touching, the yellow ball. The device = the
cueball, NOT the yellow ball, as I mistyped!!!
 
 
 

snooker rule question

Post by Nathan Web » Tue, 27 Aug 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> On Mon, 19 Aug 1996 23:21:44 +1100, Nathan Webb


> >> BTW:
> >> An idea comes to my mind. What about positioning the cueball touching
> >> the yellow ball, and have a touching ball, witch to send behind some
> >> other ball for a snooker. IS THIS LEGAL? (I don't think so, because
> >> one would be concidered to be touching the yellow ball with some
> >> device = the yellow ball)

> >This would have to be a foul, as it is a foul to touch an object ball,
> >not simply to move it.  This is a common misconception amongst many
> >players (especially those who never play competitive frames with
> >markers).  Even if one of the hairs on your arm touches a ball, it is a
> >foul.  I've never seen this sort of foul called, but it could be.

> >In the process of moving the cue-ball to touch the yellow, you are
> >commiting a foul.

> >Nathan Webb

> I'm sorry about my mistyping. It is placing the cueball (ball in hand)
> with our hand nextto, and touching, the yellow ball. The device = the
> cueball, NOT the yellow ball, as I mistyped!!!

No, no, I think I understood you fully the first time, and, yes, it is a
foul.  you mean to place the cue-ball in the D, and have it placed so
that it is touching the yellow, right?

This is a foul.  It is not just a foul to MOVE an object ball, but to
touch it as well.  In this case, the cue-ball is not yet in play, so it
would count the same as your hand.  It would be like just grazing the
yellow with your knuckles, which is a foul.  Very hard to detect, but an
honest player would own up to the foul (yeah, right).

If the white was in play, then it would be fine, except that the next
shot would be your opponents (i.e. you play the white so that it is
touching the yellow, opponents shot).

Nathan Webb