Balls: Clean or Dirty?

Balls: Clean or Dirty?

Post by Privey » Mon, 26 Jan 2004 02:35:06


I came across this interesting article.

http://SportToday.org/

"Crisis occurs when women and cattle get e***d"...James Thurber

 
 
 

Balls: Clean or Dirty?

Post by Patrick Johnso » Mon, 26 Jan 2004 03:15:20

Interesting, all right.  He says lighter cue balls draw more easily
(true) and heavier cue balls follow more easily (also true).  Then he
says the Super Aramith Pro CB draws AND follows better.  Must be lighter
and heavier.

Read what these "experts" say with a grain of salt.

Pat Johnson
Chicago

Quote:

> I came across this interesting article.

> http://SportToday.org/

> "Crisis occurs when women and cattle get e***d"...James Thurber


 
 
 

Balls: Clean or Dirty?

Post by Tony DeAngel » Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:38:02

Quote:

> Interesting, all right.  He says lighter cue balls draw more easily
> (true) and heavier cue balls follow more easily (also true).  Then he
> says the Super Aramith Pro CB draws AND follows better.  Must be lighter
> and heavier.

He also says the CB that comes with the Centennial set is junk because
it weighs the same as the other balls.  Later he says the red dot is
lighter then later he says the red dot weighs the same and that is the
only way to get true play.  A thought: since the author's bias is
towards artistic billiards perhaps his notions of playability might be
different than a tournement players (i.e. he might be more interested in
getting the most "stuff" on the balls and in making the cueball move as
much as possible).
Quote:

> Read what these "experts" say with a grain of salt.

> Pat Johnson
> Chicago


>> I came across this interesting article.

>> http://SportToday.org/

>> "Crisis occurs when women and cattle get e***d"...James Thurber


 
 
 

Balls: Clean or Dirty?

Post by Patrick Johnso » Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:52:36

Quote:

> He also says the CB that comes with the Centennial set is junk because
> it weighs the same as the other balls.  Later he says the red dot is
> lighter then later he says the red dot weighs the same and that is the
> only way to get true play.

I've heard so many claims about the differences between the blue circle
balls that come with Centennials and the red circle ball that comes by
itself that I decided to compare them semi-scientifically today.
Lacking an accurate scale, I resorted to homemade methods.

Using a new set of Centennials with its blue circle cue ball and a new
red circle cue ball (on fairly young Granito cloth), I hit a bunch of
"challenge" draw shots like this:

START(
%Aa6O6%Pg7O6%_r6O9%`c1O7%ag7O5%b_4P0%cC6P0%da4O5
)END

... hitting as low as possible on the CB and counting only the shots
where the CB ended up nearly frozen to the foot rail.  The idea is that
you'd have to hit harder with a heavier CB and easier with a lighter cue
ball to get them to the same point.  Therefore the OB would travel
farther with a heavier CB and vice verse.

Comparing the distance the OB traveled for about twenty successful shots
with each CB (where the CB ended up frozen or nearly frozen to the foot
rail), there seemed to be no significant difference.  Both OBs traveled
an average of 14.5 diamonds, with little variance from shot to shot.

BTW, on close inspection there also seemed to be no significant
difference in the surface glossiness/smoothness of the two CBs.

Pat Johnson
Chicago

 
 
 

Balls: Clean or Dirty?

Post by Tony DeAngel » Tue, 27 Jan 2004 03:40:09

Very interesting.  I'd be interested in some numbers on weight and
dimension.  BTW, you didn't try these tests with a Predator shaft did you?
Quote:


>> He also says the CB that comes with the Centennial set is junk because
>> it weighs the same as the other balls.  Later he says the red dot is
>> lighter then later he says the red dot weighs the same and that is the
>> only way to get true play.

> I've heard so many claims about the differences between the blue circle
> balls that come with Centennials and the red circle ball that comes by
> itself that I decided to compare them semi-scientifically today. Lacking
> an accurate scale, I resorted to homemade methods.

> Using a new set of Centennials with its blue circle cue ball and a new
> red circle cue ball (on fairly young Granito cloth), I hit a bunch of
> "challenge" draw shots like this:

> START(
> %Aa6O6%Pg7O6%_r6O9%`c1O7%ag7O5%b_4P0%cC6P0%da4O5
> )END

> ... hitting as low as possible on the CB and counting only the shots
> where the CB ended up nearly frozen to the foot rail.  The idea is that
> you'd have to hit harder with a heavier CB and easier with a lighter cue
> ball to get them to the same point.  Therefore the OB would travel
> farther with a heavier CB and vice verse.

> Comparing the distance the OB traveled for about twenty successful shots
> with each CB (where the CB ended up frozen or nearly frozen to the foot
> rail), there seemed to be no significant difference.  Both OBs traveled
> an average of 14.5 diamonds, with little variance from shot to shot.

> BTW, on close inspection there also seemed to be no significant
> difference in the surface glossiness/smoothness of the two CBs.

> Pat Johnson
> Chicago

 
 
 

Balls: Clean or Dirty?

Post by Fast Larry Guning » Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:10:47

Quote:

> Very interesting.  I'd be interested in some numbers on weight and
> dimension.  BTW, you didn't try these tests with a Predator shaft did you?



> >> He also says the CB that comes with the Centennial set is junk because
> >> it weighs the same as the other balls.  Later he says the red dot is
> >> lighter then later he says the red dot weighs the same and that is the
> >> only way to get true play.

> > I've heard so many claims about the differences between the blue circle
> > balls that come with Centennials and the red circle ball that comes by
> > itself that I decided to compare them semi-scientifically today. Lacking
> > an accurate scale, I resorted to homemade methods.

> > Using a new set of Centennials with its blue circle cue ball and a new
> > red circle cue ball (on fairly young Granito cloth), I hit a bunch of
> > "challenge" draw shots like this:

> > START(
> > %Aa6O6%Pg7O6%_r6O9%`c1O7%ag7O5%b_4P0%cC6P0%da4O5
> > )END

> > ... hitting as low as possible on the CB and counting only the shots
> > where the CB ended up nearly frozen to the foot rail.  The idea is that
> > you'd have to hit harder with a heavier CB and easier with a lighter cue
> > ball to get them to the same point.  Therefore the OB would travel
> > farther with a heavier CB and vice verse.

> > Comparing the distance the OB traveled for about twenty successful shots
> > with each CB (where the CB ended up frozen or nearly frozen to the foot
> > rail), there seemed to be no significant difference.  Both OBs traveled
> > an average of 14.5 diamonds, with little variance from shot to shot.

> > BTW, on close inspection there also seemed to be no significant
> > difference in the surface glossiness/smoothness of the two CBs.

> > Pat Johnson
> > Chicago

Hi this is Fast Larry, the red circle is lighter and smaller than the
blue circle so that causes it it out draw it.  The blue cirlce has the
same finish as the object balls, the red circle has a better finish so
its hotter.  Yes, he's right, I throw the blue cirlces away, they
suck.  The super pro aramith has the same polish as their 3-cushion
balls and it is the best ball to play with now, plus it is the same
size as the object balls which is good.
 
 
 

Balls: Clean or Dirty?

Post by Patrick Johnso » Tue, 27 Jan 2004 23:08:12

Quote:

> ... the red circle is lighter and smaller than the blue circle

Not to a degree that seems to matter to pool players.  Not even to a
degree that seems detectable.

Pat Johnson
Chicago

 
 
 

Balls: Clean or Dirty?

Post by Samie » Wed, 28 Jan 2004 04:40:54

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 08:08:12 -0600, Patrick Johnson

Quote:


>> ... the red circle is lighter and smaller than the blue circle

>Not to a degree that seems to matter to pool players.  Not even to a
>degree that seems detectable.

>Pat Johnson
>Chicago

I guess it's a mental thing with me then.  I've always been able to
draw better with the red circle than the blue circle.  I can
definitely tell a difference when I play since the poolhall I play at
can have either one randomly placed in the rack I get.

- Samiel

 
 
 

Balls: Clean or Dirty?

Post by Patrick Johnso » Wed, 28 Jan 2004 05:02:25

Quote:

> ...  I've always been able to
> draw better with the red circle than the blue circle.  I can
> definitely tell a difference when I play since the poolhall I play at
> can have either one randomly placed in the rack I get.

Try a test with an assistant:  shoot a bunch of identical draw shots,
but have the assistant place the cue ball for each shot, selecting a red
or blue circle randomly and placing it so you can't see the circle.  Hit
plenty of shots with each kind with the assistant writing down which
kind of CB is used and the result for each shot (but not telling you
until the test is over).

Of course, the CBs should be of similar age, condition, etc., and not
easily distinguishable by eye.  Ideally, the assistant would have
several of each to use and would select from them randomly (if they're
new, I guess you can skip this part).

Pat Johnson
Chicago

 
 
 

Balls: Clean or Dirty?

Post by Frank Glen » Wed, 28 Jan 2004 07:29:52



:|:Of course, the CBs should be of similar age, condition, etc., and not
:|:easily distinguishable by eye.
:|:

The red and blue circle are made of different resin. They may weigh
the same, but look a little different, and may play different. This
is actually a good test. Be sure to post the results. And also be
sure to use NEW balls, otherwise they may not be the same size!
Frank

 
 
 

Balls: Clean or Dirty?

Post by Ste Willia » Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:41:17


<snip>

A quick observation on this... I was given a set from a club owner in
Austria a few months ago after an event, and this set has a green
circle on the CB.

Has anyone seen one of these / tried the weight ?

Just curious to know.

Ste.

Quote:

> Hi this is Fast Larry, the red circle is lighter and smaller than the
> blue circle so that causes it it out draw it.  The blue cirlce has the
> same finish as the object balls, the red circle has a better finish so
> its hotter.  Yes, he's right, I throw the blue cirlces away, they
> suck.  The super pro aramith has the same polish as their 3-cushion
> balls and it is the best ball to play with now, plus it is the same
> size as the object balls which is good.

 
 
 

Balls: Clean or Dirty?

Post by Bob Dzurick » Wed, 28 Jan 2004 21:42:47


Quote:
> Very interesting.  I'd be interested in some numbers on weight and
> dimension.

I got 2 sets of Centennial balls (with the blue circle cue ball) when they
re-issued them back in the mid 80s (?).  The original plan, as I heard it,
was to only sell 500 sets total.  Well, you know how that goes.  Anyway, I
play with one set while the other has never been used.  I also have a few
new Red Circle cue balls from the same era.  Since Tony asked, I measured &
weighed a selection for comparison.  All balls have never been used. The
Blue Circle cue is the one included with the set.  See results at
http://www.dzcues.com/hidden.htm

Bob

 
 
 

Balls: Clean or Dirty?

Post by Samie » Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:34:41

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:29:52 -0500, Frank Glenn

Quote:



>:|:Of course, the CBs should be of similar age, condition, etc., and not
>:|:easily distinguishable by eye.
>:|:

>The red and blue circle are made of different resin. They may weigh
>the same, but look a little different, and may play different. This
>is actually a good test. Be sure to post the results. And also be
>sure to use NEW balls, otherwise they may not be the same size!
>Frank

I'm not sure if I could find 2 new ones.  I'll have to order some...
lol.

- Samiel

 
 
 

Balls: Clean or Dirty?

Post by Patrick Johnso » Thu, 29 Jan 2004 00:02:27

Quote:

> I got 2 sets of Centennial balls (with the blue circle cue ball) when they
> re-issued them back in the mid 80s (?).
> ...  I also have a few
> new Red Circle cue balls from the same era.  Since Tony asked, I measured &
> weighed a selection for comparison.

Your numbers show this:

All the Centennial balls (including the CB) are within 1/2% of their
average weight, except the 1-ball, which is almost 1% lighter than average.

The two red-circle CBs are almost 1% lighter and almost 2% lighter than
the average Centennial weight.

The lightest red-circle CB is also the smallest ball overall, but the
other red-circle CB is right on the average size of all the rest.

So one of the red-circle CBs is within the weight variance found among
the Centennials themselves (it could be the 1-ball), and the other isn't
by about 1% (and is also smaller).  This is a small selection from which
to draw any conclusions, but it doesn't sound like much difference to me.

Pat Johnson
Chicago