How many ways to foul on a push?

How many ways to foul on a push?

Post by Carter Ada » Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:45:19


I know that you can foul on a push shot by:

1. Double hit
2. Jumping a ball off of the table
3. Pocketing the cue ball
4. Touching the cue ball with other than tip of the cue
5. If "All fouls" touching an object ball with anything other than the
cue ball

Are there now or have there been other ways to foul in any of the main
rule sets - BCA, WPA, Texas Express, etc.???

Thanks,
Carter

 
 
 

How many ways to foul on a push?

Post by Patrick Johnso » Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:54:34

6. Miscueing on a jump shot
7. Being in contact with the CB when it contacts another ball
8. Pushing the CB
9. Having less than 1 foot on the floor
10. Opponent doesn't acknowledge push shot call

Pat Johnson
Chicago

Quote:

> I know that you can foul on a push shot by:

> 1. Double hit
> 2. Jumping a ball off of the table
> 3. Pocketing the cue ball
> 4. Touching the cue ball with other than tip of the cue
> 5. If "All fouls" touching an object ball with anything other than the
> cue ball

> Are there now or have there been other ways to foul in any of the main
> rule sets - BCA, WPA, Texas Express, etc.???

> Thanks,
> Carter


 
 
 

How many ways to foul on a push?

Post by Ron Shepar » Sat, 27 Mar 2004 23:49:08



Quote:
> 6. Miscueing on a jump shot
> 7. Being in contact with the CB when it contacts another ball
> 8. Pushing the CB
> 9. Having less than 1 foot on the floor
> 10. Opponent doesn't acknowledge push shot call

11. If the cue ball touches an object ball that has been pocketed,
then it would be a foul.  This is unlikely to occur right after a
break shot, of course, but if you threw the 10-15 balls into a
pocket before you broke, then it might happen.

12. Hitting/pushing the cue ball with the side of the shaft is also
a foul.  It is not uncommon to see players do this, so a discussion
before the match, or a simple warning after the first offense might
be in order during a nontournament match.

Basically, on a push out, all foul rules still apply *EXCEPT* for
hitting the lowest numbered ball first and sending a ball to a
cushion afterwards.  BTW, it is perfectly legal to hit, or even
pocket, the lowest numbered ball on a push out shot; I've seen even
experienced players who are confused about that.

$.02 -Ron Shepard

 
 
 

How many ways to foul on a push?

Post by Carter Ada » Sun, 28 Mar 2004 05:21:31

Quote:



> > 6. Miscueing on a jump shot
> > 7. Being in contact with the CB when it contacts another ball
> > 8. Pushing the CB
> > 9. Having less than 1 foot on the floor
> > 10. Opponent doesn't acknowledge push shot call

> 11. If the cue ball touches an object ball that has been pocketed,
> then it would be a foul.  This is unlikely to occur right after a
> break shot, of course, but if you threw the 10-15 balls into a
> pocket before you broke, then it might happen.

> 12. Hitting/pushing the cue ball with the side of the shaft is also
> a foul.  It is not uncommon to see players do this, so a discussion
> before the match, or a simple warning after the first offense might
> be in order during a nontournament match.

> Basically, on a push out, all foul rules still apply *EXCEPT* for
> hitting the lowest numbered ball first and sending a ball to a
> cushion afterwards.  BTW, it is perfectly legal to hit, or even
> pocket, the lowest numbered ball on a push out shot; I've seen even
> experienced players who are confused about that.

> $.02 -Ron Shepard

Thanks Ron!

Your last sentence is the situation I was really trying to get to - I
didn't want to slant the responses by asking directly.  This came up
last night in a friendly game.

There was a VERY experienced player there (he won the BCA open in 1998
or there abouts), who said that it was a foul for the cue ball to hit
the lowest numbered ball.  I disagreed, and could not find the
situation specifically covered in the rule book.  So, I maintained
that it was not a foul.

He swears that back in the 90's (around the time as the one foul, ball
in hand was becomming common) that he played in tournaments where the
rule was that hitting the lowest numbered ball on a push was a foul.
I told him I would research it and get back to him.  I also told him
it was possible that it was a specific rule for a particular tour or
tournament...

Thanks,
Carter

 
 
 

How many ways to foul on a push?

Post by Ed Chauvin I » Mon, 29 Mar 2004 04:43:16

Mere moments before death, Ron Shepard hastily scrawled:

Quote:
>BTW, it is perfectly legal to hit, or even
>pocket, the lowest numbered ball on a push out shot; I've seen even
>experienced players who are confused about that.

I can imagine wanting to push out and hit the LNB, but I don't see any
reason you'd want to pocket it.  I realize you didn't say it was
desirable, but I just thought I'd throw this out and see if anyone
could come up with a reason why you'd want to call push out and shoot
the LNB in rather than call safe and shoot the LNB in.

Ed Chauvin IV

--
DISCLAIMER : WARNING: RULE # 196 is *** in that to calculate L,
use X = [(C2/10)^2], and RULE # 193 which is NOT meant to be read by
kids, since RULE # 187 EXPLAINS ***ity mathematically, using

"I always feel left out when someone *else* gets killfiled."
                           --Terry Austin

 
 
 

How many ways to foul on a push?

Post by Jim Wyan » Mon, 29 Mar 2004 04:51:16

On 3/27/04 2:43 PM, in article

Quote:

> Mere moments before death, Ron Shepard hastily scrawled:
>> BTW, it is perfectly legal to hit, or even
>> pocket, the lowest numbered ball on a push out shot; I've seen even
>> experienced players who are confused about that.

> I can imagine wanting to push out and hit the LNB, but I don't see any
> reason you'd want to pocket it.  I realize you didn't say it was
> desirable, but I just thought I'd throw this out and see if anyone
> could come up with a reason why you'd want to call push out and shoot
> the LNB in rather than call safe and shoot the LNB in.

> Ed Chauvin IV

Sure, when the next lowest ball is totally locked up and you think you can
navigate a 3 foul win.

Or, when there is a dead combination on the next lowest ball but getting
position is going to be very, very difficult.  Especially the case if it is
the NLNB and the 9.

--Jim

 
 
 

How many ways to foul on a push?

Post by Ron Shepar » Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:17:33



Quote:
> I can imagine wanting to push out and hit the LNB, but I don't see any
> reason you'd want to pocket it.  I realize you didn't say it was
> desirable, but I just thought I'd throw this out and see if anyone
> could come up with a reason why you'd want to call push out and shoot
> the LNB in

We have discussed this issue over the years here in RSB, and so far
no one has given a general situation in which it is clear that it is
the best option.  There are some situations in which it seems to be
a reasonable choice, but no better than other choices in the same
situation.  Remember with a push out, the shooter can never gain a
real advantage over an equally skilled opponent; the best he can do,
with a "perfect" push out is leave a 50/50 situation that offers
neither him nor his opponent an advantage.

Quote:
>rather than call safe and shoot the LNB in.

This part can be answered however.  In 9-ball, there are no called
safeties.  You can never shoot in a ball (legally) and force your
opponent to shoot next from that position.

$.02 -Ron Shepard

 
 
 

How many ways to foul on a push?

Post by Ed Chauvin I » Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:31:28

Mere moments before death, Ron Shepard hastily scrawled:

Quote:


>> I can imagine wanting to push out and hit the LNB, but I don't see any
>> reason you'd want to pocket it.  I realize you didn't say it was
>> desirable, but I just thought I'd throw this out and see if anyone
>> could come up with a reason why you'd want to call push out and shoot
>> the LNB in

>We have discussed this issue over the years here in RSB, and so far
>no one has given a general situation in which it is clear that it is
>the best option.  There are some situations in which it seems to be
>a reasonable choice, but no better than other choices in the same
>situation.  Remember with a push out, the shooter can never gain a
>real advantage over an equally skilled opponent; the best he can do,
>with a "perfect" push out is leave a 50/50 situation that offers
>neither him nor his opponent an advantage.

That's my general understanding.

Quote:
>>rather than call safe and shoot the LNB in.

>This part can be answered however.  In 9-ball, there are no called
>safeties.  You can never shoot in a ball (legally) and force your
>opponent to shoot next from that position.

Ack!  I've been playing far too much 8-ball lately, but still should
have known that.

Ed Chauvin IV

--
DISCLAIMER : WARNING: RULE # 196 is *** in that to calculate L,
use X = [(C2/10)^2], and RULE # 193 which is NOT meant to be read by
kids, since RULE # 187 EXPLAINS ***ity mathematically, using

"I always feel left out when someone *else* gets killfiled."
                           --Terry Austin