Comments by 100-ball runners on their keys to such 14.1 runs

Comments by 100-ball runners on their keys to such 14.1 runs

Post by erni » Fri, 07 Aug 2009 05:18:42


Here's an outstanding discussion of attaining high runs in 14.1.  It
goes on for 3 pages of posts and it's worth reading all 3 pages to
benefit from the one-third of posters who are recognized high-runners
themselves (some of them having runs over 200) -- Lipsky, Blackjack,
and others you've heard of.

(There's the usual percentage of Intermediate players (some of them
very insightful RSBers) simply talking theoretically, but whose
intelligent comments also can provoke thought and productive new
reflections on your own 14.1 playing habits -- both attitudinal and
physical.)  You won't be sorry you read all the posts.

Click on this link:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=57331

Ernie

 
 
 

Comments by 100-ball runners on their keys to such 14.1 runs

Post by JakartaDea » Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:51:53

Quote:

> Here's an outstanding discussion of attaining high runs in 14.1.  It
> goes on for 3 pages of posts and it's worth reading all 3 pages to
> benefit from the one-third of posters who are recognized high-runners
> themselves (some of them having runs over 200) -- Lipsky, Blackjack,
> and others you've heard of.

> (There's the usual percentage of Intermediate players (some of them
> very insightful RSBers) simply talking theoretically, but whose
> intelligent comments also can provoke thought and productive new
> reflections on your own 14.1 playing habits -- both attitudinal and
> physical.)  You won't be sorry you read all the posts.

> Click on this link:

> http://SportToday.org/

> Ernie

Thanks Ernie, I missed that first time around.  I've been trying to
practice 14.1, but failing miserably.  I know the reason is mental, as
I'll ***every 6 or 7 balls, which shouldn't be a problem -- I can run
6 or 7 in a game of 8-ball with other balls in the way more often than I
can practicing 14.1.

I think too much, and I definitely get down on myself.  I want some of
Steve Lipsky's mojo, that confidence that the run is going to continue.
  Lou, I imagine, has the same attitude although he used different words
in his post.

Dean <-- will keep at it, but needs to buy some mojo

 
 
 

Comments by 100-ball runners on their keys to such 14.1 runs

Post by Dan Whit » Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:57:30


Quote:

> Thanks Ernie, I missed that first time around.  I've been trying to
> practice 14.1, but failing miserably.  I know the reason is mental, as
> I'll ***every 6 or 7 balls, which shouldn't be a problem -- I can run 6
> or 7 in a game of 8-ball with other balls in the way more often than I can
> practicing 14.1.

Well there's your answer.  Run all the stripes first, then the solids and
leave the 8 for your break ball...repeat!  :)

dwhite

 
 
 

Comments by 100-ball runners on their keys to such 14.1 runs

Post by lfiguero » Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:23:03

It's not mental.

There was a time I might have said that too, but believe me, really and
truly, it's not mental.

It is inconsistency in stroke delivery.  And, I will say one other thing
that I think is crucial (which I say with a caveat  --  this only
applies to players who are not "naturals."  IOW, the 95% of us that have
to work at this :-)

Besides stroke delivery (which also means a consistent PSR) it is
developing individual techniques, for a wide variety of shots, that
compliment your shooting mechanics.  What I am learning is that there
are, however many shots, that require a bit of tailoring in how you
handle them.  You can't use the exact same technique on every shot.  If
you unlock this, your ability to execute goes way up, your consistency
improves, and your runs get longer.

In one respect, you are right:  it takes mental discipline to research
all this, remember it, and apply it.

The other night at dinner, I was explaining to my wife some of my latest
machinations and discoveries (a dinner knife as pool cue is often a
critical visual aid in these expositions :-) and after I was done she
said, "I don't know how you remember all that.  I mean, how do you keep
it all straight?!"  And it just came out:  It's actually pretty easy, if
you're willing to concentrate and immerse yourself in it for whatever
amount of time you're willing to give it.  I guess I'd say, it's like
learning a language.  At first you can barely ask for a beer and where
the bathroom is.  But if you stick with it, you become conversationally
fluent and after awhile you're blabbering on with the natives, without a
thought of vocabulary, tenses, and genders.

Lou Figueroa

Quote:


>> Here's an outstanding discussion of attaining high runs in 14.1.  It
>> goes on for 3 pages of posts and it's worth reading all 3 pages to
>> benefit from the one-third of posters who are recognized high-runners
>> themselves (some of them having runs over 200) -- Lipsky, Blackjack,
>> and others you've heard of.

>> (There's the usual percentage of Intermediate players (some of them
>> very insightful RSBers) simply talking theoretically, but whose
>> intelligent comments also can provoke thought and productive new
>> reflections on your own 14.1 playing habits -- both attitudinal and
>> physical.)  You won't be sorry you read all the posts.

>> Click on this link:

>> http://SportToday.org/

>> Ernie

> Thanks Ernie, I missed that first time around.  I've been trying to
> practice 14.1, but failing miserably.  I know the reason is mental, as
> I'll ***every 6 or 7 balls, which shouldn't be a problem -- I can run
> 6 or 7 in a game of 8-ball with other balls in the way more often than I
> can practicing 14.1.

> I think too much, and I definitely get down on myself.  I want some of
> Steve Lipsky's mojo, that confidence that the run is going to continue.
>  Lou, I imagine, has the same attitude although he used different words
> in his post.

> Dean <-- will keep at it, but needs to buy some mojo

 
 
 

Comments by 100-ball runners on their keys to such 14.1 runs

Post by lfiguero » Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:23:46

lol.

Lou Figueroa
now why didn't I
think of that

Quote:



>> Thanks Ernie, I missed that first time around.  I've been trying to
>> practice 14.1, but failing miserably.  I know the reason is mental, as
>> I'll ***every 6 or 7 balls, which shouldn't be a problem -- I can run 6
>> or 7 in a game of 8-ball with other balls in the way more often than I can
>> practicing 14.1.

> Well there's your answer.  Run all the stripes first, then the solids and
> leave the 8 for your break ball...repeat!  :)

> dwhite

 
 
 

Comments by 100-ball runners on their keys to such 14.1 runs

Post by John Blac » Fri, 07 Aug 2009 23:11:34

In article <7bc43e86-2901-46b5-97b2-

says...

Quote:
> Here's an outstanding discussion of attaining high runs in 14.1.  It
> goes on for 3 pages of posts and it's worth reading all 3 pages to
> benefit from the one-third of posters who are recognized high-runners
> themselves (some of them having runs over 200) -- Lipsky, Blackjack,
> and others you've heard of.

Ernie, thanks for the link!  Great stuff.

John Black

 
 
 

Comments by 100-ball runners on their keys to such 14.1 runs

Post by John Blac » Fri, 07 Aug 2009 23:58:23


Quote:
> Thanks Ernie, I missed that first time around.  I've been trying to
> practice 14.1, but failing miserably.  I know the reason is mental, as
> I'll ***every 6 or 7 balls, which shouldn't be a problem -- I can run
> 6 or 7 in a game of 8-ball with other balls in the way more often than I
> can practicing 14.1.

I notice this too.  I attribute it to the fact that with a good break, the
balls in 8-ball are usually fairly spread out without the kind of tieups you
see in 14.1 making it easier to run 6 or 7.  In 14.1, there is often
considerable congestion making position windows much tighter, a big rack
area full of clustered balls that must be chipped away at and broken out bit
by bit, etc.  It takes a large amount of skill and knowledge (which I don't
have) to handle all of that.  If I throw 15 balls out on the table with no
tieups and start the cueball in the center of the table, its not that
unusual for me to be able to run all 15 (especially going in any order to
mask a few position errors along the way).  But with those same 15 balls in
a big cluster with many frozen or almost, forget it.

John Black

 
 
 

Comments by 100-ball runners on their keys to such 14.1 runs

Post by erni » Sat, 08 Aug 2009 02:18:12

Possibly one very important mental component of pool is simply being
consciously and confidently aware that getting the mental process *out
of the way* can and will be done during shot performances.  And that
your success is a direct function of your ability to allow a kind of
steady and rhythmic upright minimal decision making/down-on-the-shot
subconscious performance to take place.

Besides pool playing there are plenty of other sports and also
creative activities like painting, writing, and composing music where
the phenomenon of getting in the zone occur -- a state where theres
minimal mental mediation and the act seems to simply flow (from well-
trained subconscious resources).

As with Lous very accurate and highly applicable analogy of learning
a language, then increasingly more freely using the language without
conscious concern about the details and process of doing so, all the
above zone beneficiaries (like us when were playing great)
consciously acquire a growing fund of necessary skills, then ideally
express those skills by getting out of the way with regard to
distracting and actually counter-productive mental activity.

Easier said than done, but far easier when you confidently know it can
be done.  When the internal chatter is turned off, your arm knows what
to do and the patterns, crucial shot selecting, and individual
treatments of the shots can flow effortlessly.

There are individuals so blessed with talent -- innate gifts for
strategy, light-speed learning, and hand-eye coordination (naturals
like Efren) -- that they are the pool worlds equivalent of savants.
But skill comes to most of us with so many years of table time and
frustration endurance, that it does seem foolish not to systematically
determine our own disciplined ingredients for getting to confident,
almost auto-pilot runs with minimal analysis (and minimal negative
attitude) while shooting.

The quite mental act of reading how high-runners do it is a step in
the right direction.

It *is* amusing though to recall the comment of the inarguably
naturally gifted Luther Lassiter who said: I cant teach anything
about pool because I dont know what Im doing.  Hed simply get down
and do it, without analysis while doing so.

Ernie

 
 
 

Comments by 100-ball runners on their keys to such 14.1 runs

Post by Dan Whit » Sat, 08 Aug 2009 13:45:27


Quote:

> Besides stroke delivery (which also means a consistent PSR) it is
> developing individual techniques, for a wide variety of shots, that
> compliment your shooting mechanics.  What I am learning is that there are,
> however many shots, that require a bit of tailoring in how you handle
> them.  You can't use the exact same technique on every shot.  If you
> unlock this, your ability to execute goes way up, your consistency
> improves, and your runs get longer.

Lou, can you clarify this a little?  Are you talking about situations like
shooting over another ball where you have to shoot differently from your
normal routine, or something else?

dwhite

 
 
 

Comments by 100-ball runners on their keys to such 14.1 runs

Post by JakartaDea » Sat, 08 Aug 2009 16:24:49

Quote:

> It's not mental.

> There was a time I might have said that too, but believe me, really and
> truly, it's not mental.

> It is inconsistency in stroke delivery.  And, I will say one other thing
> that I think is crucial (which I say with a caveat  --  this only
> applies to players who are not "naturals."  IOW, the 95% of us that have
> to work at this :-)

> Besides stroke delivery (which also means a consistent PSR) it is
> developing individual techniques, for a wide variety of shots, that
> compliment your shooting mechanics.  What I am learning is that there
> are, however many shots, that require a bit of tailoring in how you
> handle them.  You can't use the exact same technique on every shot.  If
> you unlock this, your ability to execute goes way up, your consistency
> improves, and your runs get longer.

> In one respect, you are right:  it takes mental discipline to research
> all this, remember it, and apply it.

It's because I'm having trouble applying it that I think my problems are
more in my head at the moment.

There's no doubt I need to improve many parts of my game, and 14.1, as
John pointed out ("In 14.1, there is often considerable congestion
making position windows much tighter, a big rack area full of clustered
balls that must be chipped away at and broken out bit by bit, etc.  It
takes a large amount of skill and knowledge to handle all of that.")  My
own attempts at 14.1 have improved my ability to predict cue ball path
and speed, and therefore my ability to break out clusters.  They have
also shown me just how miserable my precision game is, so that's half my
personal journey mapped out.

But, perhaps because of the above, I get into a completely wrong
attitude when practicing 14.1.  To begin with, I don't particularly like
practicing, but I do force myself to do it sometimes.  When practicing
by playing 14.1 I seem to get myself in a bad mood, beating up on
myself.  The PSR is an early casualty, followed by potting accuracy,
then cue ball control goes completely AWOL.  That's why I think, for me
at least, my attitude needs to improve for my game to improve much.  Or,
maybe try a bar box, if there were any around here.

Quote:

> The other night at dinner, I was explaining to my wife some of my latest
> machinations and discoveries (a dinner knife as pool cue is often a
> critical visual aid in these expositions :-) and after I was done she
> said, "I don't know how you remember all that.  I mean, how do you keep
> it all straight?!"  And it just came out:  It's actually pretty easy, if
> you're willing to concentrate and immerse yourself in it for whatever
> amount of time you're willing to give it.  I guess I'd say, it's like
> learning a language.  At first you can barely ask for a beer and where
> the bathroom is.  But if you stick with it, you become conversationally
> fluent and after awhile you're blabbering on with the natives, without a
> thought of vocabulary, tenses, and genders.

That's insightful, and instinctively I know it's right.  Sometimes the
best way to learn a language, in my experience and once I've got to a
certain point, is to not try to understand, just listen, and I find I'm
understanding more than I was before.

Quote:
> Lou Figueroa

Grasshopper Dean
 
 
 

Comments by 100-ball runners on their keys to such 14.1 runs

Post by lfiguero » Sat, 08 Aug 2009 21:29:41

Buried in here is one of the central themes I've harped on for a long
time:  whatever you come up with for a PSR, it has to be within the
context of your natural body mechanics.  IOW, you can't be coming up
with some weird, unnatural movements to get yourself into shooting
position.  What you have to do is find a way to trigger that one natural
flow of body movements that creates your bestest stroke.  If you've come
up with something that makes you look like Gene Kelly in "An American in
Paris" you are doomed the second you enter a live fire situation.  It'll
break down in a heart beat.  If you initiate the right trigger, it
should all happen very naturally.

The confidence part comes from having cooked up the right body movement
triggers, along with the right specialized shot techniques, and having
them actually work in a real life pressure situation a few times.  THEN,
it's all gravy and it all starts to flow effortlessly.

Lou Figueroa

Quote:

> Easier said than done, but far easier when you confidently know it can
> be done.  When the internal chatter is turned off, your arm knows what
> to do and the patterns, crucial shot selecting, and individual
> treatments of the shots can flow effortlessly.

 
 
 

Comments by 100-ball runners on their keys to such 14.1 runs

Post by lfiguero » Sat, 08 Aug 2009 21:40:50

Yes,shooting over a ball would be a pretty obvious one.  Actually, you
can break that one into at least two different shots:  shooting with
follow over a ball and shooting with draw.

Another distinction:  depending on the player, certain shots are best
shot with certain bridges.  And from there you can break it down even
further as to what kind of open hand bridge you want to use, or what
kind of closed bridge, or rail bridge  --  they are not all created
equal.  But I think the general tendency is to glop them all together
and not think that one might be preferable than the other.

But one usually is :-)

Lou Figueroa

Quote:



>> Besides stroke delivery (which also means a consistent PSR) it is
>> developing individual techniques, for a wide variety of shots, that
>> compliment your shooting mechanics.  What I am learning is that there are,
>> however many shots, that require a bit of tailoring in how you handle
>> them.  You can't use the exact same technique on every shot.  If you
>> unlock this, your ability to execute goes way up, your consistency
>> improves, and your runs get longer.

> Lou, can you clarify this a little?  Are you talking about situations like
> shooting over another ball where you have to shoot differently from your
> normal routine, or something else?

> dwhite

 
 
 

Comments by 100-ball runners on their keys to such 14.1 runs

Post by lfiguero » Sat, 08 Aug 2009 21:54:00

One's attitude is usually vastly improved when the balls are splitting
the pockets and the CB behaves as though you have it on a string :-)

Dean, my suggestion to you is start easy.  Your next practice session,
try just spreading the balls out  --  no clusters; nothing on the rail;
no congestion.  Then take CB in hand and try and execute simple
positional plays.  But here's the thing:  if the play doesn't come out
the way you expected it to, don't accept the result just because you
have some kind of another shot.  Put them back, set it up again, and
figure out why it didn't go the way you expected (this is key), and then
work on making it come out the way you want (this is important too).

It's a matter of breaking things down into readily identifiable shots:
following a straight-in shot; drawing a straight back; one rail position
with draw, follow, center; shooting off a rail with draw; shooting off a
rail with follow; shooting over a ball with draw/follow, and so on.

By the way, just as a general comment, one of the biggest clues that
will reveal one is not setting up correctly is that on every shot, you
have to use english.  The right starting point is that the shot should
appear to your peepers that center ball will do the trick.  If you're
spinning everything in, you need to change your PSR.  Not saying that's
you, just a general comment.

Lou Figueroa

Quote:


>> It's not mental.

>> There was a time I might have said that too, but believe me, really
>> and truly, it's not mental.

>> It is inconsistency in stroke delivery.  And, I will say one other
>> thing that I think is crucial (which I say with a caveat  --  this
>> only applies to players who are not "naturals."  IOW, the 95% of us
>> that have to work at this :-)

>> Besides stroke delivery (which also means a consistent PSR) it is
>> developing individual techniques, for a wide variety of shots, that
>> compliment your shooting mechanics.  What I am learning is that there
>> are, however many shots, that require a bit of tailoring in how you
>> handle them.  You can't use the exact same technique on every shot.  
>> If you unlock this, your ability to execute goes way up, your
>> consistency improves, and your runs get longer.

>> In one respect, you are right:  it takes mental discipline to research
>> all this, remember it, and apply it.

> It's because I'm having trouble applying it that I think my problems are
> more in my head at the moment.

> There's no doubt I need to improve many parts of my game, and 14.1, as
> John pointed out ("In 14.1, there is often considerable congestion
> making position windows much tighter, a big rack area full of clustered
> balls that must be chipped away at and broken out bit by bit, etc.  It
> takes a large amount of skill and knowledge to handle all of that.")  My
> own attempts at 14.1 have improved my ability to predict cue ball path
> and speed, and therefore my ability to break out clusters.  They have
> also shown me just how miserable my precision game is, so that's half my
> personal journey mapped out.

> But, perhaps because of the above, I get into a completely wrong
> attitude when practicing 14.1.  To begin with, I don't particularly like
> practicing, but I do force myself to do it sometimes.  When practicing
> by playing 14.1 I seem to get myself in a bad mood, beating up on
> myself.  The PSR is an early casualty, followed by potting accuracy,
> then cue ball control goes completely AWOL.  That's why I think, for me
> at least, my attitude needs to improve for my game to improve much.  Or,
> maybe try a bar box, if there were any around here.

>> The other night at dinner, I was explaining to my wife some of my
>> latest machinations and discoveries (a dinner knife as pool cue is
>> often a critical visual aid in these expositions :-) and after I was
>> done she said, "I don't know how you remember all that.  I mean, how
>> do you keep it all straight?!"  And it just came out:  It's actually
>> pretty easy, if you're willing to concentrate and immerse yourself in
>> it for whatever amount of time you're willing to give it.  I guess I'd
>> say, it's like learning a language.  At first you can barely ask for a
>> beer and where the bathroom is.  But if you stick with it, you become
>> conversationally fluent and after awhile you're blabbering on with the
>> natives, without a thought of vocabulary, tenses, and genders.

> That's insightful, and instinctively I know it's right.  Sometimes the
> best way to learn a language, in my experience and once I've got to a
> certain point, is to not try to understand, just listen, and I find I'm
> understanding more than I was before.

>> Lou Figueroa

> Grasshopper Dean

 
 
 

Comments by 100-ball runners on their keys to such 14.1 runs

Post by Mark » Sun, 09 Aug 2009 01:42:50

Welcome back Lou.  Didn't take too long for our percentage of on topic
posts to return with you -- what a coinkadink.  :D

-Mark0  <--hoping the Fig sticks around

=-=-=

Quote:
> Yes,shooting over a ball would be a pretty obvious one.  Actually, you
> can break that one into at least two different shots:  shooting with
> follow over a ball and shooting with draw.

> Another distinction:  depending on the player, certain shots are best
> shot with certain bridges.  And from there you can break it down even
> further as to what kind of open hand bridge you want to use, or what
> kind of closed bridge, or rail bridge  --  they are not all created
> equal.  But I think the general tendency is to glop them all together
> and not think that one might be preferable than the other.

> But one usually is :-)

> Lou Figueroa




> >> Besides stroke delivery (which also means a consistent PSR) it is
> >> developing individual techniques, for a wide variety of shots, that
> >> compliment your shooting mechanics.  What I am learning is that there
are,
> >> however many shots, that require a bit of tailoring in how you handle
> >> them.  You can't use the exact same technique on every shot.  If you
> >> unlock this, your ability to execute goes way up, your consistency
> >> improves, and your runs get longer.

> > Lou, can you clarify this a little?  Are you talking about situations like
> > shooting over another ball where you have to shoot differently from your
> > normal routine, or something else?

> > dwhite

--Mark0

Author of Secrets to a Perfect Pool Table Recovering Job
http://www.mccauleyweb.com/secrets.htm

----
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com

 
 
 

Comments by 100-ball runners on their keys to such 14.1 runs

Post by Mark » Sun, 09 Aug 2009 01:49:01


<snipped the good(er) stuff>.  

Quote:
>If you're spinning everything in, you need to change your PSR.  Not saying
that's
> you, just a general comment.

> Lou Figueroa

<snipped more good stuff>

I'm surprised this went through undiscussed....  That's a pretty sweeping
statement there podnah.  Can you elaborate more on it?

--Mark0  <--spins the ball (maybe too) often

Author of Secrets to a Perfect Pool Table Recovering Job
http://www.mccauleyweb.com/secrets.htm

_______________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com