Aiming a 9-Ball Break to Make the 1-Ball in the Side

Aiming a 9-Ball Break to Make the 1-Ball in the Side

To make the 1-ball in the side pocket on a 9-ball break and also get a
hard smash break (with no sidespin), where do you break from and where
do you hit the 1-ball?

What works best for me is breaking from the head string about a ball's
width off the side rail (the most typical 9-ball break spot) and
aiming almost dead on at the 1-ball, but very slightly offcenter.

In the diagram linked below, a line drawn through the centers of the
cue ball and 1-ball points at the spot on the foot rail marked "A" -
if I hit the 1-ball dead on and the rest of the rack wasn't there, the
1-ball would hit the foot rail at point "A".  Instead, I aim for a
very slight cut to aim the 1-ball at point "B" in the diagram, about a
ball's width closer to the corner pocket - essentially the least
amount of cut that I can hit with any regularity.

http://tinyurl.com/2ntztd

I get quite a few 1-balls in the side with this aim and a smash break
- and many that don't go in the side go one rail to the corner pocket
closest to me.  (I also get the usual number of wing balls in the
corner, etc.)

I know that Corey and others use a soft break with more cut and some
outside spin, but I'm talking about what gives the best results with a
dropping if the 1 doesn't go in the side, and so the cue ball stays
near the center of the table.

What works best for you?

pj
chgo

Aiming a 9-Ball Break to Make the 1-Ball in the Side

Quote:

> In the diagram linked below, a line drawn through the centers of the
> cue ball and 1-ball points at the spot on the foot rail marked "A" -
> if I hit the 1-ball dead on and the rest of the rack wasn't there, the
> 1-ball would hit the foot rail at point "A".  Instead, I aim for a
> very slight cut to aim the 1-ball at point "B" in the diagram, about a
> ball's width closer to the corner pocket - essentially the least
> amount of cut that I can hit with any regularity.

> http://tinyurl.com/2ntztd

I am going to wait and see what others say, as I am not really expert in
this area (not a dedicated 9 Ball player).  However, I first need a point of
clarification:

If, as you say point B is to the RIGHT of the centerline between the CB and
1-Ball, how is it that your diagram shows CB travelling TO THE LEFT of said
centerline after contact with the 1-Ball?

If this is just  an oversight in your diagram, that's cool with me.
However, if this is INTENTIONAL, please explain how this happens -- I'm not
sure, but I don't think this is physically possible.  If it really IS
possible, it would certainly be interesting to know why.

Naturally, the more intuitive explanation for this occurrence would be that,
while you think you are aiming at Point B to the RIGHT of Point A, you are
actually sending the cueball toward some point to the LEFT of Point A.

This last point agrees with my own limited observation on this type of 9
Ball break.  I have seen that you are more likely to get the action you
diagrammed by IMPACTING slightly OUTSIDE (in this case, LEFT) of center
rather than either a direct centerball hit or a slightly INSIDE (in this
case, RIGHT) hit.  However, with this type of break, you must REALLY control
the CB movement, as you run a very high risk of scratching (in this case) in
the LEFT side pocket.

As mentioned, these are just my own LIMITED observations, so any and ALL
clarifications are eagerly awaited.

Thanks,

Mike Collier
Oak Harbor, WA

Aiming a 9-Ball Break to Make the 1-Ball in the Side

Quote:
> To make the 1-ball in the side pocket on a 9-ball break and also get a
> hard smash break (with no sidespin), where do you break from and where
> do you hit the 1-ball?

> What works best for me is breaking from the head string about a ball's
> width off the side rail (the most typical 9-ball break spot) and
> aiming almost dead on at the 1-ball, but very slightly offcenter.

> In the diagram linked below, a line drawn through the centers of the
> cue ball and 1-ball points at the spot on the foot rail marked "A" -
> if I hit the 1-ball dead on and the rest of the rack wasn't there, the
> 1-ball would hit the foot rail at point "A".  Instead, I aim for a
> very slight cut to aim the 1-ball at point "B" in the diagram, about a
> ball's width closer to the corner pocket - essentially the least
> amount of cut that I can hit with any regularity.

> http://tinyurl.com/2ntztd

> I get quite a few 1-balls in the side with this aim and a smash break
> - and many that don't go in the side go one rail to the corner pocket
> closest to me.  (I also get the usual number of wing balls in the
> corner, etc.)

> I know that Corey and others use a soft break with more cut and some
> outside spin, but I'm talking about what gives the best results with a
> dropping if the 1 doesn't go in the side, and so the cue ball stays
> near the center of the table.

> What works best for you?

> pj
> chgo

Pat,

All I get is a blank Wei table when I click the link.  Can you please post
the code too.

Thanks

--Mark0

Author of Secrets to a Perfect Pool Table Recovering Job
http://www.mccauleybeb.com/secrets.htm

_______________________________________________________________________?
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com

Aiming a 9-Ball Break to Make the 1-Ball in the Side

Quote:
> If, as you say point B is to the RIGHT of the centerline between the CB and
> 1-Ball, how is it that your diagram shows CB travelling TO THE LEFT of said
> centerline after contact with the 1-Ball?

I don't see a problem.  Look at the diagram again (or read the
description of the shot again).  The object ball is cut to the
right, the cue ball goes to the left.  That's the way it always
happens.

\$.02 -Ron Shepard

Aiming a 9-Ball Break to Make the 1-Ball in the Side

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 00:45:52 -0700, "Mail Man"

Quote:

>> In the diagram linked below, a line drawn through the centers of the
>> cue ball and 1-ball points at the spot on the foot rail marked "A" -
>> if I hit the 1-ball dead on and the rest of the rack wasn't there, the
>> 1-ball would hit the foot rail at point "A".  Instead, I aim for a
>> very slight cut to aim the 1-ball at point "B" in the diagram, about a
>> ball's width closer to the corner pocket - essentially the least
>> amount of cut that I can hit with any regularity.

>> http://tinyurl.com/2ntztd

>I am going to wait and see what others say, as I am not really expert in
>this area (not a dedicated 9 Ball player).  However, I first need a point of
>clarification:

>If, as you say point B is to the RIGHT of the centerline between the CB and
>1-Ball, how is it that your diagram shows CB travelling TO THE LEFT of said
>centerline after contact with the 1-Ball?

I'm cutting the 1-ball to the right (toward point B), so the cue ball
is hitting left of center on the 1-ball.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
>If this is just  an oversight in your diagram, that's cool with me.
>However, if this is INTENTIONAL, please explain how this happens -- I'm not
>sure, but I don't think this is physically possible.  If it really IS
>possible, it would certainly be interesting to know why.

>Naturally, the more intuitive explanation for this occurrence would be that,
>while you think you are aiming at Point B to the RIGHT of Point A, you are
>actually sending the cueball toward some point to the LEFT of Point A.

>This last point agrees with my own limited observation on this type of 9
>Ball break.  I have seen that you are more likely to get the action you
>diagrammed by IMPACTING slightly OUTSIDE (in this case, LEFT) of center
>rather than either a direct centerball hit or a slightly INSIDE (in this
>case, RIGHT) hit.  However, with this type of break, you must REALLY control
>the CB movement, as you run a very high risk of scratching (in this case) in
>the LEFT side pocket.

I rarely scratch on the break, I think mostly because I take as much
care (or more) with tip/ball contact point, aiming, stance and stroke
as I do with any other shot.

I think most players take less care with the break shot, but that's
backwards.  Hitting so hard reduces your accuracy and magnifies the
effect, so you don't want to compound that by being more careless with
how you line it up.

pj
chgo

Aiming a 9-Ball Break to Make the 1-Ball in the Side

Quote:

>> To make the 1-ball in the side pocket on a 9-ball break and also get a
>> hard smash break (with no sidespin), where do you break from and where
>> do you hit the 1-ball?

>> What works best for me is breaking from the head string about a ball's
>> width off the side rail (the most typical 9-ball break spot) and
>> aiming almost dead on at the 1-ball, but very slightly offcenter.

>> In the diagram linked below, a line drawn through the centers of the
>> cue ball and 1-ball points at the spot on the foot rail marked "A" -
>> if I hit the 1-ball dead on and the rest of the rack wasn't there, the
>> 1-ball would hit the foot rail at point "A".  Instead, I aim for a
>> very slight cut to aim the 1-ball at point "B" in the diagram, about a
>> ball's width closer to the corner pocket - essentially the least
>> amount of cut that I can hit with any regularity.

>> http://tinyurl.com/2ntztd

>> I get quite a few 1-balls in the side with this aim and a smash break
>> - and many that don't go in the side go one rail to the corner pocket
>> closest to me.  (I also get the usual number of wing balls in the
>> corner, etc.)

>> I know that Corey and others use a soft break with more cut and some
>> outside spin, but I'm talking about what gives the best results with a
>> dropping if the 1 doesn't go in the side, and so the cue ball stays
>> near the center of the table.

>> What works best for you?

>> pj
>> chgo

>Pat,

>All I get is a blank Wei table when I click the link.  Can you please post
>the code too.

Watch out for the wrap.

pj
chgo

Aiming a 9-Ball Break to Make the 1-Ball in the Side

Quote:

> >> To make the 1-ball in the side pocket on a 9-ball break and also get a
> >> hard smash break (with no sidespin), where do you break from and where
> >> do you hit the 1-ball?

> >> What works best for me is breaking from the head string about a ball's
> >> width off the side rail (the most typical 9-ball break spot) and
> >> aiming almost dead on at the 1-ball, but very slightly offcenter.

> >> In the diagram linked below, a line drawn through the centers of the
> >> cue ball and 1-ball points at the spot on the foot rail marked "A" -
> >> if I hit the 1-ball dead on and the rest of the rack wasn't there, the
> >> 1-ball would hit the foot rail at point "A".  Instead, I aim for a
> >> very slight cut to aim the 1-ball at point "B" in the diagram, about a
> >> ball's width closer to the corner pocket - essentially the least
> >> amount of cut that I can hit with any regularity.

> >> http://tinyurl.com/2ntztd

> >> I get quite a few 1-balls in the side with this aim and a smash break
> >> - and many that don't go in the side go one rail to the corner pocket
> >> closest to me.  (I also get the usual number of wing balls in the
> >> corner, etc.)

> >> I know that Corey and others use a soft break with more cut and some
> >> outside spin, but I'm talking about what gives the best results with a
> >> dropping if the 1 doesn't go in the side, and so the cue ball stays
> >> near the center of the table.

> >> What works best for you?

> >> pj
> >> chgo

> >Pat,

> >All I get is a blank Wei table when I click the link.  Can you please post
> >the code too.

Quote:

> Watch out for the wrap.

> pj
> chgo

Got it.  Thanks PJ

--Mark0

Author of Secrets to a Perfect Pool Table Recovering Job
http://www.mccauleybeb.com/secrets.htm

----?
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com

Aiming a 9-Ball Break to Make the 1-Ball in the Side

Quote:

> I'm cutting the 1-ball to the right (toward point B), so the cue ball
> is hitting left of center on the 1-ball.

Therein lies the nature of my misunderstanding -- I thought you meant that
you were aiming the CB at Point B.  However, you meant you are aiming the
1-Ball at point B, across and to the RIGHT of the CB/1B centerline -- OF
COURSE (!), this requires a slight cut on the LEFT side of the 1B and the CB
would naturally rebound as you have shown.

Thanks to both Pat and Ron for showing me the "shining path" ... :-] , we
are now all in sync.  This being said, Pat, with my own limited experience,
I agree with your observations on the ball action without reservation.  I
will also add that I have both seen and been told that some of the more
accomplished players will hit this shot even very slightly more to the LEFT
with outside english -- the goal being (same as your own) to:

a.  sink the 1B in the right side pocket;
b.  sink one of the wing balls; or,
c.  sink any other ball.

The outside spin doesn't change ANYTHING on this break except for the CB
path.  The CB objective is to travel from the 1B back perpendicular to the
left side rail and, upon rail impact, having the spin open up the rebound
angle so that the CB travels diagonally back across the center area of the
table into the head half of the table.

This is because the wing ball pockets on the break far more often than any
other ball.  Wih this type of side break, the 1B usually rebounds off of the
right side rail and goes somewhere into the head half of the table within a
couple of diamonds from the head-left pocket.  The side spin on the CB just
helps to get it into position on the 1B with a hopefully decent return angle
back toward the foot half of the table, if necessary, in case a wing, or any
other, ball pockets on the break.

This presents another problem -- where is the NEXT ball (after the FIRST
ball)?  I mean, what do you do if you actually MAKE the 1B (after all, this
IS part of the plan)?  What if the 2B is frozen to the foot rail with
traffic between it and a CB you have so carefully placed in the head half of
the table.  Or, in your own scenario, what happens if the 2B is over by the
foot-right corner pocket tied up behind 2 or 3 other balls and you have
successfully drawn the CB back to the position you diagrammed?

I only bring this up to say that neither your break (with the CB drawback to
the left) nor the same basic break with the outside spin on the CB is THE
ONE and only solution!!!  The 9-Ball rack is supposedly put up in random.
This is usually true, although we all know that, in some cases, the rack
structure does get manipulated.  It is almost impossible to put up two racks
in a row exactly the same.  Under usual circumstances, it is even difficult
to get that "perfect tight rack" -- there is, more often than not, a ball
gap somewhere in the rack.

This now means that you must know what the action of ALL balls (or at least
the NEXT 2 or 3 balls) is going to be with the break.  Joe Tucker's work can
help a GREAT DEAL with the various gap theories.  Other than that, you just
have to figure out where the 2B will be from ANYWHERE in the rack if you
make the 1B on the break.

I think that, with your break, if the CB doesn't get bounced/kicked and
winds up in accordance with your plan, you're in good position to shoot at
the 1B if you made a wing ball on the break.  Likewise with the other break,
but the CB is vulnerable to being kicked here, too.  The determining factor
of which of these breaks you use should be where your SECOND SHOT ball will
likely wind up after you break!!!

Also, having pre-spotted your second shot ball in the rack, there may be
some break solution necessary, OTHER than what has already been discussed
here, to insure that BOTH of your first two shots are not tied up if you
sink a ball on the break.  Sometimes, simply due to rack structure, ball
gaps due to old and unevenly sized balls, poor cloth, loose and inadequate
ball rack and a host of other conditions, it is just impossible to avoid
this.

Under any of these circumstances, I just give up on all the fancy breaks.  I
just set the CB on the midpoint of the headstring, smash the CB with about
3/4-tip center-top spin directly at the center of the CB and hope for the
best.  This head-on center rack hit will ALWAYS give the farthest overall
total ball movement, but it's either a run-out or a sell-out ... ;-> .
However, when, and possibly "because," nothing else seems to be working, I
almost always get a ball or two on this break.  The top spin on the CB
causes it to bore back through the middle of the rack, spread more balls and
keep it in the foot half of the table where, on this particular break, the
1B should be located, having been pinned FORWARD by the CB's action upon
impact.

As far as manipulation is concerned, and although this may not necessarily
be true, in my own semi-experienced mind, logic pretty much says that the 2
balls in the 4th row (i.e., just behind the 9B) in the rack will nearly
always wind up around the bottom (foot) of the table.  So, if I know you're
going to break as you outlined, I'm putting the 2B on the right side of the
4th row, as viewed from the head of the table.  The rest of the balls don't
matter because, if I can't shortstop you here, no amount of manipulation is
going to help with the rest of the balls -- only luck or opponent's
inability will help from here.

But, I quit manipulating a long time ago -- I just wait for my chance at the
table, which normally WILL come, no matter what my opponent's speed is.  I
have only been 6-packed once in my lifetime and 5-racked only one other
time.  Even in a short race to 7, this is acceptable to me.

Sorry about the ramble, you just brought up some decent thoughts to me.
Thanks again,

Mike Collier
Oak Harbor, WA

Aiming a 9-Ball Break to Make the 1-Ball in the Side

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 00:31:14 -0700, "Mail Man"

Quote:

>> I'm cutting the 1-ball to the right (toward point B), so the cue ball
>> is hitting left of center on the 1-ball.

>Therein lies the nature of my misunderstanding -- I thought you meant that
>you were aiming the CB at Point B.  However, you meant you are aiming the
>1-Ball at point B, across and to the RIGHT of the CB/1B centerline -- OF
>COURSE (!), this requires a slight cut on the LEFT side of the 1B and the CB
>would naturally rebound as you have shown.

>Thanks to both Pat and Ron for showing me the "shining path" ... :-] , we
>are now all in sync.  This being said, Pat, with my own limited experience,
>I agree with your observations on the ball action without reservation.  I
>will also add that I have both seen and been told that some of the more
>accomplished players will hit this shot even very slightly more to the LEFT
>with outside english -- the goal being (same as your own) to:

>a.  sink the 1B in the right side pocket;
>b.  sink one of the wing balls; or,
>c.  sink any other ball.

>The outside spin doesn't change ANYTHING on this break except for the CB
>path.  The CB objective is to travel from the 1B back perpendicular to the
>left side rail and, upon rail impact, having the spin open up the rebound
>angle so that the CB travels diagonally back across the center area of the
>table into the head half of the table.

I don't like that much cut on the 1-ball, mostly because it "wastes"
power that would otherwise go into spreading the rack.  It does this
in three separate ways: (1) hitting the 1-ball less squarely, (2)
hitting the cueball offcenter and (3) you have to (I think) actually
shoot softer to make the 1-ball in the side that way.  And on top of
that, you have less control of the cue ball.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
>This is because the wing ball pockets on the break far more often than any
>other ball.  Wih this type of side break, the 1B usually rebounds off of the
>right side rail and goes somewhere into the head half of the table within a
>couple of diamonds from the head-left pocket.  The side spin on the CB just
>helps to get it into position on the 1B with a hopefully decent return angle
>back toward the foot half of the table, if necessary, in case a wing, or any
>other, ball pockets on the break.

>This presents another problem -- where is the NEXT ball (after the FIRST
>ball)?  I mean, what do you do if you actually MAKE the 1B (after all, this
>IS part of the plan)?  What if the 2B is frozen to the foot rail with
>traffic between it and a CB you have so carefully placed in the head half of
>the table.  Or, in your own scenario, what happens if the 2B is over by the
>foot-right corner pocket tied up behind 2 or 3 other balls and you have
>successfully drawn the CB back to the position you diagrammed?

>I only bring this up to say that neither your break (with the CB drawback to
>the left) nor the same basic break with the outside spin on the CB is THE
>ONE and only solution!!!  The 9-Ball rack is supposedly put up in random.
>This is usually true, although we all know that, in some cases, the rack
>structure does get manipulated.  It is almost impossible to put up two racks
>in a row exactly the same.  Under usual circumstances, it is even difficult
>to get that "perfect tight rack" -- there is, more often than not, a ball
>gap somewhere in the rack.

>This now means that you must know what the action of ALL balls (or at least
>the NEXT 2 or 3 balls) is going to be with the break.  Joe Tucker's work can
>help a GREAT DEAL with the various gap theories.  Other than that, you just
>have to figure out where the 2B will be from ANYWHERE in the rack if you
>make the 1B on the break.

>I think that, with your break, if the CB doesn't get bounced/kicked and
>winds up in accordance with your plan, you're in good position to shoot at
>the 1B if you made a wing ball on the break.  Likewise with the other break,
>but the CB is vulnerable to being kicked here, too.  The determining factor
>of which of these breaks you use should be where your SECOND SHOT ball will
>likely wind up after you break!!!

>Also, having pre-spotted your second shot ball in the rack, there may be
>some break solution necessary, OTHER than what has already been discussed
>here, to insure that BOTH of your first two shots are not tied up if you
>sink a ball on the break.  Sometimes, simply due to rack structure, ball
>gaps due to old and unevenly sized balls, poor cloth, loose and inadequate
>ball rack and a host of other conditions, it is just impossible to avoid
>this.

>Under any of these circumstances, I just give up on all the fancy breaks.

Me too.  This is way more than I have the time to learn about
breaking, and I doubt it's really enough of a science to be worthwhile
even if I did.  I'm content to focus on making the 1-ball and
centering the cue ball so that I've got the best general chance of
getting a look at the next shot wherever it is.  That's plenty for me

However, I've never picked up Tucker's book on racks and would like
to.

Quote:
>I
>just set the CB on the midpoint of the headstring, smash the CB with about
>3/4-tip center-top spin directly at the center of the CB and hope for the
>best.  This head-on center rack hit will ALWAYS give the farthest overall
>total ball movement, but it's either a run-out or a sell-out ... ;-> .

I do just about the same thing, but the *very slight* cut on the
1-ball gives me a pretty good shot at putting it in the side as a
bonus without losing power or cue ball control.

pj
chgo

Aiming a 9-Ball Break to Make the 1-Ball in the Side

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:43:00 GMT, Patrick Johnson

Quote:

>On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 00:31:14 -0700, "Mail Man"

>>> I'm cutting the 1-ball to the right (toward point B), so the cue ball
>>> is hitting left of center on the 1-ball.

>>Therein lies the nature of my misunderstanding -- I thought you meant that
>>you were aiming the CB at Point B.  However, you meant you are aiming the
>>1-Ball at point B, across and to the RIGHT of the CB/1B centerline -- OF
>>COURSE (!), this requires a slight cut on the LEFT side of the 1B and the CB
>>would naturally rebound as you have shown.

>>Thanks to both Pat and Ron for showing me the "shining path" ... :-] , we
>>are now all in sync.  This being said, Pat, with my own limited experience,
>>I agree with your observations on the ball action without reservation.  I
>>will also add that I have both seen and been told that some of the more
>>accomplished players will hit this shot even very slightly more to the LEFT
>>with outside english -- the goal being (same as your own) to:

>>a.  sink the 1B in the right side pocket;
>>b.  sink one of the wing balls; or,
>>c.  sink any other ball.

>>The outside spin doesn't change ANYTHING on this break except for the CB
>>path.  The CB objective is to travel from the 1B back perpendicular to the
>>left side rail and, upon rail impact, having the spin open up the rebound
>>angle so that the CB travels diagonally back across the center area of the
>>table into the head half of the table.

>I don't like that much cut on the 1-ball, mostly because it "wastes"
>power that would otherwise go into spreading the rack.  It does this
>in three separate ways: (1) hitting the 1-ball less squarely, (2)
>hitting the cueball offcenter and (3) you have to (I think) actually
>shoot softer to make the 1-ball in the side that way.  And on top of
>that, you have less control of the cue ball.

>>This is because the wing ball pockets on the break far more often than any
>>other ball.  Wih this type of side break, the 1B usually rebounds off of the
>>right side rail and goes somewhere into the head half of the table within a
>>couple of diamonds from the head-left pocket.  The side spin on the CB just
>>helps to get it into position on the 1B with a hopefully decent return angle
>>back toward the foot half of the table, if necessary, in case a wing, or any
>>other, ball pockets on the break.

>>This presents another problem -- where is the NEXT ball (after the FIRST
>>ball)?  I mean, what do you do if you actually MAKE the 1B (after all, this
>>IS part of the plan)?  What if the 2B is frozen to the foot rail with
>>traffic between it and a CB you have so carefully placed in the head half of
>>the table.  Or, in your own scenario, what happens if the 2B is over by the
>>foot-right corner pocket tied up behind 2 or 3 other balls and you have
>>successfully drawn the CB back to the position you diagrammed?

>>I only bring this up to say that neither your break (with the CB drawback to
>>the left) nor the same basic break with the outside spin on the CB is THE
>>ONE and only solution!!!  The 9-Ball rack is supposedly put up in random.
>>This is usually true, although we all know that, in some cases, the rack
>>structure does get manipulated.  It is almost impossible to put up two racks
>>in a row exactly the same.  Under usual circumstances, it is even difficult
>>to get that "perfect tight rack" -- there is, more often than not, a ball
>>gap somewhere in the rack.

>>This now means that you must know what the action of ALL balls (or at least
>>the NEXT 2 or 3 balls) is going to be with the break.  Joe Tucker's work can
>>help a GREAT DEAL with the various gap theories.  Other than that, you just
>>have to figure out where the 2B will be from ANYWHERE in the rack if you
>>make the 1B on the break.

>>I think that, with your break, if the CB doesn't get bounced/kicked and
>>winds up in accordance with your plan, you're in good position to shoot at
>>the 1B if you made a wing ball on the break.  Likewise with the other break,
>>but the CB is vulnerable to being kicked here, too.  The determining factor
>>of which of these breaks you use should be where your SECOND SHOT ball will
>>likely wind up after you break!!!

>>Also, having pre-spotted your second shot ball in the rack, there may be
>>some break solution necessary, OTHER than what has already been discussed
>>here, to insure that BOTH of your first two shots are not tied up if you
>>sink a ball on the break.  Sometimes, simply due to rack structure, ball
>>gaps due to old and unevenly sized balls, poor cloth, loose and inadequate
>>ball rack and a host of other conditions, it is just impossible to avoid
>>this.

>>Under any of these circumstances, I just give up on all the fancy breaks.

>Me too.  This is way more than I have the time to learn about
>breaking, and I doubt it's really enough of a science to be worthwhile
>even if I did.  I'm content to focus on making the 1-ball and
>centering the cue ball so that I've got the best general chance of
>getting a look at the next shot wherever it is.  That's plenty for me

>However, I've never picked up Tucker's book on racks and would like
>to.

>>I
>>just set the CB on the midpoint of the headstring, smash the CB with about
>>3/4-tip center-top spin directly at the center of the CB and hope for the
>>best.  This head-on center rack hit will ALWAYS give the farthest overall
>>total ball movement, but it's either a run-out or a sell-out ... ;-> .

>I do just about the same thing, but the *very slight* cut on the
>1-ball gives me a pretty good shot at putting it in the side as a
>bonus without losing power or cue ball control.

I should have said, "I do just about the same thing (except from the
side rail and without top spin)..."

pj
chgo

Aiming a 9-Ball Break to Make the 1-Ball in the Side

Quote:

>However, I've never picked up Tucker's book on racks and would like
>to.

Hah!  I checked into this a long time ago and, at that time, Joe had all
this info FREE, but probably in an encapsulated or rudimentary form, on his
website.  I thought I had copied this stuff into a file on my computer
somewhere but, if I did, it's sure not there now.  The book he published in
1999, "Racking Secrets,"  is sold out everywhere and out of print.  Even
Amazon doesn't know where a copy of this book is!

However, Joe has recently released a 2 DVD set (300 minutes!) by the same
purchase this.  It encompasses ALL of the info in his book, plus a bunch of
other ideas he has cemented since 1999.  It deals with racks for 8 Ball, 9
Ball, 10 Ball, 14.1, 1 Pocket, and has a 15 Ball Rotation set-up and
practice.  With all of this stuff, it's a better deal than his original
book!  Best price I was able to find anywhere on the DVDs was at Ozone.

http://www.ozonebilliards.com/joeturasedvd.html

I forgot to mention that I DID try out some of his ideas both on my 9' table
with 860 and ProSpeed rails and also downtown on various 8' barboxes with
various rails and various types of cloth in various wear condition and a
wide range of ball sets of all conditions.  I only farted around with this
for about a week (as you said: "a lot to learn" and I didn't have the
patience at the time), just to see if there was really anything to this.

Well, THERE WAS/IS!!!  While the results frequently differed a bit, and
sometimes greatly, from Joe's predictions, I actually wound up overall
getting better CB position and break results following the rudimentary set
of guidelines I had.  And, also overall, I would say that Joe's set-up
predictions were generally "ballpark" close enough.

They were more consistent on my 9' table than on the 8' barboxes, but they
showed some consistency on the barboxes, as well.  I'm not sure how this
would carry over to the now universally popular 7' barboxes due to the
significant difference in travel angles and compacted playing area.  I feel
that expressly these two specific differences have already contributed a LOT
to the somewhat reduced consistency I got on the 8' tables (regardless of
their condition), compared to my 9' table.  How much more on the 7' tables
(can't try this -- there are none anywhere near where I live)?

As it seems to me that you confine all of your play expressly to 9' tables,
this should not be an issue with you.  I would also say that if, for
instance, because of just one killer strategic break you learned from his
work, you wind up winning a 100-bean set of 1-Pocket .. well -- you know ...

You've done a TON more work than I have on your break shot, so I would
expect you to be able to "smash" break and consistently achieve the
approximate CB result you get.  I maintain that, if you put as much effort
into the "outside spin" break I suggested, you would find that you would
eventually work up the same accuracy so that you could attain consistently
repeatable results on this break, too.

I have seen this break done consistently and with great results in "smash"
mode, but you are right -- it seems to produce far better results with
somewhat reduced speed.  I guess the perfect example of this lower speed
would be Allison Fisher, who employs this break frequently, depending upon
what the table is "giving" at the time.  I do better with this break when I
hit it at about 95% of my strength/speed and not so well when I hit it like
Allison -- different strokes for different folks.  I do well with yours,
too, but the cuetip has to be in exactly the right place, same as the other
break.

Additionally, by aiming the 1B at Point B as you say, I would say that this
is less than a 2-degree cut to the left of the CB center.  I am suggesting
that this other break can be accomplished with a less than 3-degree cut
("1-1/2 hairs" left of center, rather than "1 hair" left of center -- a
1-degree distance on the surface of the CB is .02"), so loss of impact
effect would be almost insignificant and CB control should be within about
the same region of ability as the break you are now employing.

All this having been said, in principle, I am actually in full agreement
with you, even though you are doing your experimentation under fairly
well-controlled circumstances (meaning: you will run up against "other
stuff" with outside competition).  So basically, I am just merely doing
scenario exercises based upon what little I have been able to EFFECTIVELY
observe.  I'd better just get Tucker's DVDs and do some of my own work ...
;-> .  In the meantime, I will continue to watch and see what your results
are.

Mike Collier
Oak Harbor, WA

Aiming a 9-Ball Break to Make the 1-Ball in the Side

Quote:
> To make the 1-ball in the side pocket on a 9-ball break and also get a
> hard smash break (with no sidespin), where do you break from and where
> do you hit the 1-ball?

> What works best for me is breaking from the head string about a ball's
> width off the side rail (the most typical 9-ball break spot) and
> aiming almost dead on at the 1-ball, but very slightly offcenter.

> In the diagram linked below, a line drawn through the centers of the
> cue ball and 1-ball points at the spot on the foot rail marked "A" -
> if I hit the 1-ball dead on and the rest of the rack wasn't there, the
> 1-ball would hit the foot rail at point "A".  Instead, I aim for a
> very slight cut to aim the 1-ball at point "B" in the diagram, about a
> ball's width closer to the corner pocket - essentially the least
> amount of cut that I can hit with any regularity.

> http://tinyurl.com/2ntztd

> I get quite a few 1-balls in the side with this aim and a smash break
> - and many that don't go in the side go one rail to the corner pocket
> closest to me.  (I also get the usual number of wing balls in the
> corner, etc.)

> I know that Corey and others use a soft break with more cut and some
> outside spin, but I'm talking about what gives the best results with a
> dropping if the 1 doesn't go in the side, and so the cue ball stays
> near the center of the table.

> What works best for you?

> pj
> chgo

I experimented for years with that break, but with only limited
success. Too many scratches, mostly in the side. I think its because
you are giving yourself less "square hit area" by creating an angle on
the 1. About a year ago, i switched to a different break, and never
looked back. I break about 8 inches off the short rail, in between the
middle diamond and its next closest. Punch it hard, just below center.
I dont make any particular balls, but if the rack is tight, the spread
is almost always good.  I rarely scratch, and can sometimes draw back
off the 1 to mid table.

Aiming a 9-Ball Break to Make the 1-Ball in the Side

Quote:

>> To make the 1-ball in the side pocket on a 9-ball break and also get a
>> hard smash break (with no sidespin), where do you break from and where
>> do you hit the 1-ball?

>> What works best for me is breaking from the head string about a ball's
>> width off the side rail (the most typical 9-ball break spot) and
>> aiming almost dead on at the 1-ball, but very slightly offcenter.

>> In the diagram linked below, a line drawn through the centers of the
>> cue ball and 1-ball points at the spot on the foot rail marked "A" -
>> if I hit the 1-ball dead on and the rest of the rack wasn't there, the
>> 1-ball would hit the foot rail at point "A".  Instead, I aim for a
>> very slight cut to aim the 1-ball at point "B" in the diagram, about a
>> ball's width closer to the corner pocket - essentially the least
>> amount of cut that I can hit with any regularity.

>> http://tinyurl.com/2ntztd

>> I get quite a few 1-balls in the side with this aim and a smash break
>> - and many that don't go in the side go one rail to the corner pocket
>> closest to me.  (I also get the usual number of wing balls in the
>> corner, etc.)

>> I know that Corey and others use a soft break with more cut and some
>> outside spin, but I'm talking about what gives the best results with a
>> dropping if the 1 doesn't go in the side, and so the cue ball stays
>> near the center of the table.

>> What works best for you?

>> pj
>> chgo

>I experimented for years with that break, but with only limited
>success. Too many scratches, mostly in the side.

Then you're aiming too far offcenter or you're not hitting accurately
enough.  I rarely scratch with this break - no more than with any
other.

pj
chgo

Aiming a 9-Ball Break to Make the 1-Ball in the Side

Fl IS dead, no longer posting, any one using his name, is Debra Li.She
has stated in writing here that her purpose is to destroy fl, AND rsb
WITH HIM.  FL's wish is to see rsb return to peace, so he no longer
feeds the sick thing from hell.  Satans main squeeze and top ho, now
Starving for hate, it is writing her own hate and filth and signing
FL's name to it, which shows the true level of depravity and sickness
Debra Li has sunk into the sewer of slime she now wallows in.  Her
despicable acts shame her Asian race.  Pray for her to stop this
criminal activity and to cease being a savage barbarian acting one
level below an ape in a zoo cage.

You may call Debra Li to discuss this with her on her private line at
407-970-8278

Aiming a 9-Ball Break to Make the 1-Ball in the Side

Quote:

> >> To make the 1-ball in the side pocket on a 9-ball break and also get a
> >> hard smash break (with no sidespin), where do you break from and where
> >> do you hit the 1-ball?

> >> What works best for me is breaking from the head string about a ball's
> >> width off the side rail (the most typical 9-ball break spot) and
> >> aiming almost dead on at the 1-ball, but very slightly offcenter.

> >> In the diagram linked below, a line drawn through the centers of the
> >> cue ball and 1-ball points at the spot on the foot rail marked "A" -
> >> if I hit the 1-ball dead on and the rest of the rack wasn't there, the
> >> 1-ball would hit the foot rail at point "A".  Instead, I aim for a
> >> very slight cut to aim the 1-ball at point "B" in the diagram, about a
> >> ball's width closer to the corner pocket - essentially the least
> >> amount of cut that I can hit with any regularity.

> >>http://tinyurl.com/2ntztd

> >> I get quite a few 1-balls in the side with this aim and a smash break
> >> - and many that don't go in the side go one rail to the corner pocket
> >> closest to me.  (I also get the usual number of wing balls in the
> >> corner, etc.)

> >> I know that Corey and others use a soft break with more cut and some
> >> outside spin, but I'm talking about what gives the best results with a
> >> dropping if the 1 doesn't go in the side, and so the cue ball stays
> >> near the center of the table.

> >> What works best for you?

> >> pj
> >> chgo

> >I experimented for years with that break, but with only limited
> >success. Too many scratches, mostly in the side.

> Then you're aiming too far offcenter or you're not hitting accurately
> enough.  I rarely scratch with this break - no more than with any
> other.

> pj
> chgo- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

Thats true. But what I am saying is that its easier to get a square
hit on the 1, without creating an angle on it. By reducing the angle
on the 1, you have a better chance of drawing back slightly, ending up
mid table without hitting the side rails. If you can pocket the 1 with
some consistency, I could understand taking the chance of being
slightly off, and scratching in the side. I'm not saying your break
isnt a good break, just that its a tough one to master.  I made plenty
of balls off that break, for years too. On a bad night though, I might
scratch 1 in 20, or even 10. Ball in hand usually means a loss, so I
hate scratching on the break. Thats my number one goal, not to
scratch. Others like me, who tend to scratch on that break, might want
to try breaking off the short rail.