The Stroke - what's the key?

The Stroke - what's the key?

Post by D. Hornsb » Sun, 04 Dec 1994 15:23:31


Folks:  I am new here and to the sport.  Although 20 years ago I
had a table in the garage, Daddy was a shark in his younger days.
 So I have a nice cheap cue, nobody can tell if it's a McDermott
or a Meuuci because it has been refinished.  But it is SOOOOO
much better than the house cues.  Nicely sanded and all that.  My
biggest problem seems to be to consistent stroke.  My aim is
good, but the stroke is off, then my stroke is good and to the
center, then my aim stinks.  Practice, practice, practice??? Is
there any trick.  I set up and shoot the long green shots, trying
to get the cut just right on the shots from about the foot spot
to the corner pocket with the ball just off the pocket about 10
inches.  I practice shooting the center of the ball the length of
the table and trying to get it to bump the end of the cue from
wence it was sent.  Then I just shoot racks resetting the bals if
I really muff a shot.  Any more suggestions on how to get the
stroke? I have Byrnes video and the 99 critical shots book, very
good.  I think my stick is too close to my side, I often bump my
belt.  Any suggestion folks?     -=DH=-
 
 
 

The Stroke - what's the key?

Post by Bob Jewe » Tue, 06 Dec 1994 02:21:12

Quote:
> I think my stick is too close to my side, I often bump my belt.  Any
> suggestion folks?

Find a pool instructor and get a lesson.  It is almost impossible to
correct flaws in fundamentals by Internet.  Some flaws have to be seen
to be corrected (or believed).

Bob Jewett

 
 
 

The Stroke - what's the key?

Post by Eric Winsbe » Tue, 06 Dec 1994 09:47:25

: > I think my stick is too close to my side, I often bump my belt.  Any
: > suggestion folks?

: Find a pool instructor and get a lesson.  It is almost impossible to
: correct flaws in fundamentals by Internet.  Some flaws have to be seen
: to be corrected (or believed).

: Bob Jewett

How does one go about finding an instructor?  Is there a registry?

 
 
 

The Stroke - what's the key?

Post by Greg Remi » Mon, 05 Dec 1994 02:50:35


[snip...]

Quote:
>biggest problem seems to be to consistent stroke.  My aim is
>good, but the stroke is off, then my stroke is good and to the
>center, then my aim stinks.  Practice, practice, practice??? Is
>there any trick.  I set up and shoot the long green shots, trying

[snip...]

Well, I've been playing almost daily for about a year and a half, and I've
learned a lot about technique, so far as I can tell.

Posture:        Stand at a 45 degree angle to the line of shot.
Aiming:         Keep your head so low, that your chin is about 2" from
                the shaft of the cue.
Bridge:         Use an open-V bridge, with your fingers spread WIDE.
                Distance from tip to bridge: about 8".
Stroke:         Hold the cue as far back as comfortable, while at the same
                time keeping your elbow and shoulder in an almost horizontal
                line.  Keep the forearm slightly loose, and let it swing
                with a pendulum-like motion.  Take about 3 warm-up strokes
                while aiming, stop to check the aim, do another 3, stop,
                and then do 1 warm-up and then hit the ball with confidence,
                following through about 6" past the spot where the cue
                ball was.
Hitting the
Cue Ball:       Try to hit the cue ball on the vertical line passing
                through the centre of the ball.  As far as accuracy and
                precision go, do not move left or right more than 1-tip
                width.

And as usual, practice as much as you can, sometimes repeating the same
shot over and over again until you get the hand of it, and can instantly
see where the ball is going to end up.

Also, hang out at local pool halls, and watch how the other guys do it.
Challenge them every once in a while, take your time, relax, and
concentrate on nothing but the shot.

Later.

--
Grog<aw675>.      The man with the Red Shoes.  Gotta problem?

                     TheMysticalPotatoHeadGrooveThing
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 
 
 

The Stroke - what's the key?

Post by Dave Nadl » Wed, 07 Dec 1994 06:05:59

For me, the key is stance. Somedays I just walk into shots and feel perfectly
balanced.  Other days I can't my "pool legs" at all, and I alomost feel
dizzy.  I wish I knew what to do about this...

One poster in a different thread says that he has been told to keep his
chin 2" above his cue.  When I'm down that far, I can't see the line from
the object ball to the pocket.

On the one hand, it seems as though all the top 9-ball players that
I can think of stay very low to their cues.  In his writings, Byrne
mentions that he stands a little more erect than most players, and in
the 99 Critical Shots pictures Ray Martin looks as though his chin
is one foot or more above his cue.

Can anybody say anything good or bad about Roy Yamane in Southern California
as a teacher?

Thanks,
dn

 
 
 

The Stroke - what's the key?

Post by Jim Ortli » Wed, 07 Dec 1994 08:06:27


Quote:
>My biggest problem seems to be to consistent stroke.  My aim is
>good, but the stroke is off, then my stroke is good and to the
>center, then my aim stinks.  Practice, practice, practice??? Is
>there any trick.

I'll bet your rhythm is part of the problem.

When you say your stroke is bad, what exactly is happening?

Quote:
>Any suggestion folks?

Seriously, play to some set of music and try to find an even rhythm
to shoot at.  Something with which you feel comfortable and not
rushed, yet something where you feel the need to stroke at a certain
time to keep the rhythm going.

And, I'm not joking when I say that waltzes actually work well.  If
you try someone like Strauss ("On the Blue Danube" should be easy to
get your hands on...), then you might find yourself settling into a
really nice even rhythm.  Plus, the songs usually stay in the same
rhythm for quite a while with classical pieces so you have a long
time to adjust.  (Rock and pop albums are too often erratic.  There
are exceptions... like rap and early pop -- Beatles and the like,
but something like U2 has too many changes to let you settle into a
even rhythm for more than three or four minutes at a time. Jazz
would probably be a crappy choice due to its complexity -- M.C.
Hammer would work better than Wynton Marsalis. :-)

I find stroke has to do with rhythm.  Once I think my aim is off, I
try to slow down my rhythm until I find something consistent and one
that I can maintain good aiming while in that rhythm.  It often
changes from day to day by a little, but eventually... you'll get to
the point where you can adjust either to fit your current play.  Of
course, sometimes I'm playing too slowly and need to speed up a bit,
but most often my aiming goes bad due to rushing.

Jim
--
***********************************************************************
--- Jim Ortlieb          -- aka... Head Junkie of the CrackHouse

   Today you will win big, pick a fight with a four year old...

 
 
 

The Stroke - what's the key?

Post by Bob Jewe » Wed, 07 Dec 1994 07:12:56

Quote:
> How does one go about finding an instructor?  Is there a registry?

The BCA has a program for training and certifying instructors.  Their
phone is 319-351-2112.  An updated list comes out quarterly in the "BCA
Break".

Usually there will be someone around each pool hall who gives lessons.
Some are good instructors, and some are not -- caveat emptor.

Some things you might ask a prospective instructor:

   Do they have references (from previous students or others)?
   Do they have handouts?
   Do they use video equipment for stroke analysis?
   Have they had any training to be an instructor?

Bob Jewett

 
 
 

The Stroke - what's the key?

Post by Ron Shepa » Thu, 08 Dec 1994 03:10:42


[...]

Quote:
>(Rock and pop albums are too often erratic.  There
>are exceptions... like rap and early pop -- Beatles and the like,
>but something like U2 has too many changes to let you settle into a
>even rhythm for more than three or four minutes at a time. Jazz
>would probably be a crappy choice due to its complexity -- M.C.
>Hammer would work better than Wynton Marsalis. :-)

I've noticed when kids come in and play head-banging music then EVERYONE
seems to get out of stroke.  On the other hand, when someone plays
Steppenwolf or Allman Brothers or Grateful Dead (you know, REAL rock and
roll ;-), then everyone starts running racks.

$.02 -Ron Shepard

 
 
 

The Stroke - what's the key?

Post by Bill Will » Thu, 08 Dec 1994 03:18:26


Quote:
 (Ron Shepard) writes:
>I've noticed when kids come in and play head-banging music then EVERYONE
>seems to get out of stroke.  On the other hand, when someone plays
>Steppenwolf or Allman Brothers or Grateful Dead (you know, REAL rock and
>roll ;-), then everyone starts running racks.

REAL rock and roll came out before these guys!  On the other hand, I like some
good blues playing when I'm shooting.  I'd prefer to have a variety of
classical selections playing, but in most places around here, the rest of the
customers would leave, including my playing partner!

Bill Willis

 
 
 

The Stroke - what's the key?

Post by Graham To » Thu, 08 Dec 1994 12:05:43


: > How does one go about finding an instructor?  Is there a registry?

: The BCA has a program for training and certifying instructors.  Their
: phone is 319-351-2112.  An updated list comes out quarterly in the "BCA
: Break".

Actually I'm not really following this article up at all, just taking
the chance to say hello to anyone out there who remembers me from
alt.sport.pool a couple of years ago.  I've just recently come to
America to live and I'm learning your BCA rules at the moment.  Weird
game, but hey, when in Rome...

While I'm on line, here's a question...

Rule 4.13 says "A player may choose to pocket an obvious ball and
also discontinue his turn at the table by declaring "safety" in
advance.

but...

Rule 4.17 says "An object ball is considered to be illegally pocketed
when ... a safety is called prior to the shot"

Rule 4.13 implies you call "safety" before you pocket a ball; rule 4.14
implies pocketing a ball after calling "safety" is a foul.

Which is it?  And are there any other contexts in which you can call
"safety" that all americans take for granted but aren't explicitly in
the rules so we furriners can't find them? :-)

I have to say I find the layout and description of the BCA rules (at least
as listed in :The Official Rules and Records Book - Billiards" published
by the BCA) extremely poor.  This pick-and-mix style of different sections
and general rules in one section that can be overridden by rules in a later
section is very amateurish.  I'd much rather see a single document with
the complete and unambiguous rules for 8-ball in one place, even if it
means they have to use more ink and paper to list the whole rules for
all the other games too.  And copyrighting them and refusing permission
to republish them (eg here) is hardly conducive to promoting the game...

I have a feeling I'm not going to be impressed by the BCA...

G

 
 
 

The Stroke - what's the key?

Post by Jari Kok » Fri, 09 Dec 1994 01:56:13

Graham Toal:

Quote:
>Rule 4.17 says "An object ball is considered to be illegally pocketed
>when ... a safety is called prior to the shot"

>Rule 4.13 implies you call "safety" before you pocket a ball; rule 4.14
>implies pocketing a ball after calling "safety" is a foul.

Illegally pocketed isn't the the same as a foul. It just means
the ball doesn't count in your favour: for instance in 14-1 an
illegally pocketed ball is spotted and you don't get a point
from that ball, but it isn't a foul so you don't get a point
penalty either.

Quote:
>Which is it?  And are there any other contexts in which you can call
>"safety" that all americans take for granted but aren't explicitly in
>the rules so we furriners can't find them? :-)

You can call a safety if you are playing a call shot game and
don't want to try to pocket a ball.

Quote:
>all the other games too.  And copyrighting them and refusing permission
>to republish them (eg here) is hardly conducive to promoting the game...

This may change sooner than you know it....

Quote:
>I have a feeling I'm not going to be impressed by the BCA...

Just you wait a while...

Jari

 
 
 

The Stroke - what's the key?

Post by Michael O'Ha » Sun, 11 Dec 1994 02:20:34


Quote:

>How does one go about finding an instructor?  Is there a registry?

Hit the halls.  There's possibly a local pool news rag in your area.  Check
them out.  Remember though, that the best players often are not the best
teachers.  There are four basic stages in a player's progress:

        Learning the fundamentals.

            The focus is on "hold the cue; point the cue; move the cue"

        Applying the fundamentals

            The focus is on making the ball.

        Learning to control the cue ball.

            The focus is on making the ball and getting shape for the next
            ball.

        Learning to see and play patterns.

            The focus is on running balls.  Lots of them.

Watch everyone you can.  Watch the pros.  Watch beginners and hackers.  What
are the common threads you see in each group?  Who's running balls and who's
not?  Who has the smooth flowing stroke and who doesn't?

Play straight pool.  This is the game that teaches you ball control and gets
you into stroke.  Buy the Robert Byrne 1 & 2 tapes.  These are the finest
medium for learning the basics of the game that I've ever seen.  Stuff I had
to "pay by the game" to learn thirty years ago are on tape and explained
and demonstrated beautifully.

Note:   I get no commission from Mister Byrne although I push his tapes every
        chance I get.

 
 
 

The Stroke - what's the key?

Post by Michael O'Ha » Sun, 11 Dec 1994 05:48:29


Quote:

>On the one hand, it seems as though all the top 9-ball players that
>I can think of stay very low to their cues.

This is the result of pressure.  I know that I start "getting down" (literally)
when there's money down.  It's part of the aiming process that has gone too
far.

Quote:
>mentions that he stands a little more erect than most players, and in
>the 99 Critical Shots pictures Ray Martin looks as though his chin
>is one foot or more above his cue.

The classic straight pool players such as Martin, Crane, Balsis, Mosconi, etc.,
maintained a more upright position.  Probably because good straight pool
players are working on a series of two foot (or less) shots.  Minnesota Fats
had a great stance, possibly due to his height (not much) and his girth (quite
a bit).

The problem with having your chin on the cue is that you are going to lose
the ability to get as much on the ball when you really have to let it all
out.  This is less of a problem with today's whippier shafts and super-fast
cloth, but it's still bad form.

Has anyone watched Mike Massey do one of his Godzilla Stroke shows?  I doubt
seriously that he has his chin on the cue when he's shooting a full length
shot and drawing the ball back two table lengths.

 
 
 

The Stroke - what's the key?

Post by Atid » Wed, 14 Dec 1994 09:05:18


Try that new Strokemaster (practice) System. Most pool rooms and bowling

info.

Ebb

 
 
 

The Stroke - what's the key?

Post by Michael O'Ha » Wed, 14 Dec 1994 09:49:58


Quote:

>Well, I've been playing almost daily for about a year and a half, and I've
>learned a lot about technique, so far as I can tell.

Be careful of absolute statements.  I've seen dozens of players peak out at
the barroom hacker level because they didn't have enough "tools" at their
disposal.

Quote:
>Bridge:     Use an open-V bridge, with your fingers spread WIDE.
>            Distance from tip to bridge: about 8".

This is one of those "it depends" things.  You'll never, repeat, never get any
serious stroke going with an open bridge.  Most of the time, you can get by
with an open bridge, but when you have to really put juice on the ball on
slow cloth, you want the shaft firmly in your hand.

The length of your bridge depends on the shot.  Eight inches is about as long
as you want to go for simple shots.  See Byrne's column in the new Billiard
Digest (Ewa Mataya-Laurence on the cover).

Quote:
>Stroke:     Hold the cue as far back as comfortable, while at the same
>            time keeping your elbow and shoulder in an almost horizontal

On most shots, you want the forearm to simply hang 90 degrees from the upper
arm.  Where you hold the cue depends on a lot things.  Watch the pros, they
constantly adjust their grip point depending on the shot.

Quote:
>Hitting the
>Cue Ball:   Try to hit the cue ball on the vertical line passing
>            through the centre of the ball.  As far as accuracy and
>            precision go, do not move left or right more than 1-tip
>            width.

Again, it depends.  How much stroke do you have and how much to you need.  If
you get a straight-on break shot in 14-1, you're going to have to get out at
the very edge and adjust your aiming point to deal with the throw.