fat vs thin tyres?

fat vs thin tyres?

Post by Joe Marshal » Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:01:10


Hi everyone,

was out on a night ride yesterday, so had some time to think about stuff and
I was wondering why everyone seems to use really fat tyres on their Munis.
From riding with bikers, the consensus there seems to be to use much
narrower tyres in mud as then you can grip the ground below the mud well. I
can see that for really trialsy stuff a fat tyre is a good thing, but for
almost all xc type riding, might it be better to use a smaller tyre.

Thought about this because it's been really muddy round near me and you can
really feel the extra weight of all the mud on a gazaloddi tyre.

Anyone got thoughts on this?

Joe

 
 
 

fat vs thin tyres?

Post by Ben Plotkin-Swin » Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:35:17

One reason I can think of off the top of my head, is that a wide, low
presure tire acts somewhat as a shock absorber. Mtn bikers can use
skinny hard tires because they can absorb the bumbs in other ways.

Hopping is also a big part of MUni, and a wide tire is much
better for that.

There are probably other reasons, but I can't think of them right now.

Ben

--
Ben Plotkin-Swing
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fat vs thin tyres?

Post by rhyslin » Thu, 24 Jan 2002 23:05:17

I think we actualy have a bit of an advantage over bikers in this
regard- since our weight is not spread over 2 points, and our drive
wheel is directly under our center of gravity, when the tire hits that
firm ground under the mud (assuming there is firm ground before the top
of your wheel dissapears into the muck) we actualy engage it instead of
sliding on top of it.

The first time I experienced this phinomina (sp?), I was too buisy
pedaling to question why I was "walking on water".

They tell me Nokia makes a 'mud' tire, with wider tread patern but
simmilar volume to the Gazz. I whine when my little 2.1 tire get's
loaded with mud- can't imagine the Gazz. On something like the Wilder,
it would probably double the uni's weight!

Christopher

  > ... much narrower tyres in mud as then you can grip the ground below the
  > mud well....

--
rhysling
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fat vs thin tyres?

Post by Joe Marshal » Fri, 25 Jan 2002 02:47:02


Quote:
> One reason I can think of off the top of my head, is that a wide, low
> presure tire acts somewhat as a shock absorber. Mtn bikers can use
> skinny hard tires because they can absorb the bumbs in other ways.
> Hopping is also a big part of MUni, and a wide tire is much
> better for that.

I can see the shock thing, I know my muni goes boing lovely like when I ride
drops on it.

If you're doing trials, or the more difficult end of muni where trials
skills are pretty important then obviously a big fat tyre is useful, but if
you're only riding singletrack XC type stuff  you usually don't need to hop.

Basically anything you'd find in your average mtb race doesn't need any
hopping at all and I reckon at this time of year (with wonderful British
weather) extra traction in mud is probably more important than shock
absorption.

I'll have to try it sometime, only I've got a pashley, so changing the tyre
is a total hassle. Hmm, I see a new toy coming on if I can find the
space....

Anyone know anything about this Cordy unicycle, this looks like a pretty
cool cross country thing.
http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=501

Joe

 
 
 

fat vs thin tyres?

Post by Kris Hol » Fri, 25 Jan 2002 03:43:19


Quote:
> Basically anything you'd find in your average mtb race doesn't need any
> hopping at all and I reckon at this time of year (with wonderful British
> weather) extra traction in mud is probably more important than shock
> absorption. [snip]

OK but you don't have to hop to appreciate a fat tire.  I like my fat tire even for easy trails
because the shock absorbtion makes riding so much more comfortable.

For mud, it might make sense to have skinny tires on a mountain bike because they have the
momentum to plow through the mud, even if they sink in.  On a MUni you typically stop dead if you
sink into deep mud- I'd rather have a fat tire that keeps me on top as much as possible.

If the Gazz 24x3.0 seems too heavy, take a look at Arrow Racing's 24x3" tire.  It is slightly
lower volume, lighter weight, and has a rounder profile that's arguably better for cross-country
riding. An Alex DX32 rim is also noticably lighter than a Sun Doublewide.

-Kris.


Quote:


> > One reason I can think of off the top of my head, is that a wide, low
> > presure tire acts somewhat as a shock absorber. Mtn bikers can use
> > skinny hard tires because they can absorb the bumbs in other ways.
> > Hopping is also a big part of MUni, and a wide tire is much
> > better for that.

> I can see the shock thing, I know my muni goes boing lovely like when I ride
> drops on it.

> If you're doing trials, or the more difficult end of muni where trials
> skills are pretty important then obviously a big fat tyre is useful, but if
> you're only riding singletrack XC type stuff  you usually don't need to hop.

> Basically anything you'd find in your average mtb race doesn't need any
> hopping at all and I reckon at this time of year (with wonderful British
> weather) extra traction in mud is probably more important than shock
> absorption.

> I'll have to try it sometime, only I've got a pashley, so changing the tyre
> is a total hassle. Hmm, I see a new toy coming on if I can find the
> space....

> Anyone know anything about this Cordy unicycle, this looks like a pretty
> cool cross country thing.
> http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=501

> Joe

> ___________________________________________________________________________
> rec.sport.unicycling mailing list - www.unicycling.org/mailman/listinfo/rsu

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fat vs thin tyres?

Post by AccordNS » Fri, 25 Jan 2002 04:45:25

The Cordy looks rather inviting. Another thing you could do is add dead
weight onto your unicycle and ride around like that, when you take off
this weight to ride again your unicycle will seem much lighter. You
could probably use something similiar to what baseball players put on
their bats, just put one on each side of the frame.

--
AccordNSX
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fat vs thin tyres?

Post by unituli » Fri, 25 Jan 2002 07:45:20

I know that for the mud here in minnesota there has to be something
better than whats being used. it's realy thick heavy concrete like mud
that likes to stick to everything. tires like the gazz or intense get
filled up with mud and then you have mud slipping on more mud. I
ordered a geax blade that is supose to be a good mud tire that I am
e***d to tryout when it comes. I think that at least for the riding
here, a tire that sheads mud well would work better than a tire that is
3 inches wide.

peter

--
unitulip
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fat vs thin tyres?

Post by harpe » Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:07:54

I think it is not quite that simple. The mud is on the tire which you not only carry but also crank around. The moment of inertia has increased substantially. Also, riding in the mud adds considerable drag. To simulate the two conditions, weights must be added to the wheel, not the frame, and an anchor must be thrown out behind the rider.
A dead goat might be a good anchor to test with.

  > Another thing you could do is add dead weight onto your unicycle and
  > ride around like that, when you take off this weight to ride again your
  > unicycle will seem much lighter. You could probably use something
  > similiar to what baseball players put on their bats, just put one on
  > each side of the frame.

--
harper
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fat vs thin tyres?

Post by jagu » Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:15:23

i just had the muddiest ride last weekend
and the Maxxis 2.7 Mobster performed very well.

--
jagur
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fat vs thin tyres?

Post by John Zanett » Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:15:09

  How about a live goat?

Quote:

> I think it is not quite that simple. The mud is on the tire which you not only carry but also crank around. The moment of inertia has increased substantially. Also, riding in the mud adds considerable drag. To simulate the two conditions, weights must be added to the wheel, not the frame, and an anchor must be thrown out behind the rider.

> A dead goat might be a good anchor to test with.


>   > Another thing you could do is add dead weight onto your unicycle and
>   > ride around like that, when you take off this weight to ride again your
>   > unicycle will seem much lighter. You could probably use something
>   > similiar to what baseball players put on their bats, just put one on
>   > each side of the frame.

> --
> harper
> Posted via the Unicyclist Community - http://unicyclist.com/forums

 
 
 

fat vs thin tyres?

Post by harpe » Sat, 26 Jan 2002 01:55:27

A live goat would not provide uniform drag. They tend to flail about in an annoying manner. To provide uniform drag, a live animal must be in some way spherical...a large turtle or an armadillo might suffice.

  > How about a live goat?

--
harper
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fat vs thin tyres?

Post by jeff d tuttl » Sat, 26 Jan 2002 02:32:03

I was reading about a group that xc skied to the South Pole and for
training they ran with car tires dragging behind them (as a substitute
for a sled). If that isn't enough of a challenge you could use tractor
tires!

Jeff

On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:55:27 +0000 (UTC) harper

Quote:

> A live goat would not provide uniform drag. They tend to flail about
> in an annoying manner. To provide uniform drag, a live animal must
> be in some way spherical...a large turtle or an armadillo might
> suffice.


>   > How about a live goat?

> --
> harper
> Posted via the Unicyclist Community - http://unicyclist.com/forums

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fat vs thin tyres?

Post by Klaas B » Sat, 26 Jan 2002 07:00:44

On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:55:27 +0000 (UTC), harper

Quote:

>A live goat would not provide uniform drag.

Nor would mud.

Klaas Bil
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fat vs thin tyres?

Post by Neil Dunlo » Sat, 26 Jan 2002 16:25:41

I like to carry a lasso with me - the first person to utter a***y comment
wins the honour. Agreed... humans are not spherical... but it does add to
the riding enjoyment - especially when going round corners and landing big
drops.
Quote:
----- Original Message -----

Newsgroups: rec.sport.unicycling

Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: fat vs thin tyres?

> A live goat would not provide uniform drag. They tend to flail about in an
annoying manner. To provide uniform drag, a live animal must be in some way
spherical...a large turtle or an armadillo might suffice.


>   > How about a live goat?

> --
> harper
> Posted via the Unicyclist Community - http://SportToday.org/

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www.unicycling.org/mailman/listinfo/rsu

 
 
 

fat vs thin tyres?

Post by Paul Selwoo » Sat, 26 Jan 2002 07:38:34

Quote:


>> Basically anything you'd find in your average mtb race doesn't need any
>> hopping at all and I reckon at this time of year (with wonderful British
>> weather) extra traction in mud is probably more important than shock
>> absorption. [snip]
> For mud, it might make sense to have skinny tires on a mountain bike because they have the
> momentum to plow through the mud, even if they sink in.  On a MUni you typically stop dead if you
> sink into deep mud- I'd rather have a fat tire that keeps me on top as much as possible.

In my experience the precise nature of the mud is very important in
all of this. The thick, sticky, heavy clay that we get in the area
near London is a real pain whatever you do for tyres. The mud builds
up on the tyre and a) removes all traction b) clogs up between the
frame and tyre. The best designs for this do seem to be the narrower
tyres with mud-shedding knobs. You still have only a little traction,
but at least the wheel *can* turn! In the Chiltern beech-woods, the
mud is a totally different beast altogether - a firm gravel base with
a light (but usually very wet and quite deep) leaf-litter based mud
that clears easily and still allows the tyre to sink through to the
firmer base. A bigger, grippier tyre seems to work better here as you
can utilise the better traction. Riding in this is hard work as you
are always digging a new trench (don't worry about path erosion - the
mud just flows back into the groove as soon as you've ridden through!)
but it is a great workout!

--
Paul Selwood