New tyre drag brake design

New tyre drag brake design

Post by Tony Melt » Mon, 01 Apr 2002 10:44:13


I am having a 24" Muni custom made for me and I'd like to have it
equipped with brakes. My thoughts were to use a modified Magura
hydraulic brake setup to fit around the tyre.  However the bike
builder suggested trying a different design of brake - one similar to
those on kids' scooters. The idea is to have  a *** covered arm
that pivots just under the fork crown. The *** covered arm will
drag on the tyre when the brake lever is squeezed.   This should slow
the wheel down. It may also result in increased tyre wear!  Has anyone
tried anything like this before?

While on the subject of brakes on Municycles:
How useful are brakes on Muni anyway? How easy is it to regulate your
speed when riding down steep, rocky terrain?

From a purist's point of view can you do everything on a brakeless
Muni that you can do on a Muni with brakes? Or could you if you had
the right skills or technique?

Any thoughts or comments much appreciated!
Tony Melton

.......coastin' on

 
 
 

New tyre drag brake design

Post by rhyslin » Mon, 01 Apr 2002 11:25:28

For what it's worth (nothing)- I'd table the break option untill you
know you'll value it.   I'd appreciate a break on long deliberate
decents- like a steady down grade on a Coker- or for very brief
applications on steep ascents.   Weather the extra weight and expence is
warrented FOR YOU AND YOUR TASTE- well, you'll just have to get to that
point and find out; people can explain why they find them usefull at
their skill level- but not if YOU will find them worthwild.

Inovation is great!   However, this hole 'wheel stoping technology'
thang has been well addressed.   The type of brake option/inovation your
builder proferred would lack the sophistication required to make the
device usefull in this application.    Might make me worry about what
other 'inovations' the builder has in mind...   Humm... a custom frame
has a very high cool factor.    I recommend tabling the custom frame
option untill questions like ' How easy is it to regulate your speed
when riding down steep, rocky terrain?' can be easly answered by
yourself; you'll know what you want out of the frame and be able to make
the most of it.    Custom should meen increased performance/value
instead of just unique- unless you just want a show piece.   And that's
cool, too.

Christopher

--
rhysling - Last of the Mississippi Unicyclists

"Si...like a low rider, man. I like eet when he jacks hees shocks, man."
-Ceramic Dog, Physicist

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New tyre drag brake design

Post by rhyslin » Mon, 01 Apr 2002 11:50:03

More babbeling from the voice of inexperience:

So far, I would find a brake handy off road when taking decents that
either I can't or don't want to travers.   Depending on the soil, I
imagin using the brake would require very delicate controll to avoid
unintended skidding.   There is a little 9' J slot I'v taken about a
dozzen times now, and controlling my speed usualy decides weather or not
I stick it.   To avoid being pitched or having to controll heavy wheel
wobble at the bottom, I have to actively pull speed out of the drop on
the way down; holding back too much often meens an unintended skid.  
I'm not sure how much the break would help ME on the neer verticle
portion, but untill I developed the skill  to exploit it at that point
I'm sure I could use it at the bottom!    I supposed when married to
skill, a break could extend what is safely rideable...

I'd like to hear from an active brake user, too...

Christopher

--
rhysling - Last of the Mississippi Unicyclists

"Si...like a low rider, man. I like eet when he jacks hees shocks, man."
-Ceramic Dog, Physicist

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New tyre drag brake design

Post by Nathan Hoove » Mon, 01 Apr 2002 11:56:53

We first tried Magura rim brakes back in '99 as an experiment and I liked
them but they seemed problematic and required a custom booster to fit over a
3" tire. Now the Magura HS33 seems to solve those problems. I've been riding
it now for 6 weeks and love it. It does feel like cheating sometimes, and
yes you could probably ride just about everything without, but it is truly
great when doing big descents. A year ago, I rode most of a 6000' descent in
Mexico without brakes and it killed my legs. Sore for 3 days. I could barely
walk the next morning - many of you know the feeling. Kris used his brake
that descent and was fine (except his ears were ringing for a while :-).
Training for that trip I had done a 4600' up & down ride and the downhill
was really a pain for the legs and knees. Very sore afterwards. A couple of
weeks ago I did the same ride with the brake and didn't feel a thing during
or after!! And my time went from 4:50 to 4:20. That is a huge difference and
is very worth carrying 0.76 extra pounds.

Offhand, I don't really think your idea of a drag brake will work well, but
I've never tried it. I think that once you feel the fine modulation control
that the Magura hydraulics give you, you won't want anything else. It takes
a little practice to use the brake on steep bumpy terrain, but it isn't all
that hard (not that I'm an expert at it yet). I have been experimenting a
little with riding 1-footed down much steeper slopes than otherwise possible
by using the brake. Maybe it could help with gliding too - save your soles?

Here is a picture of the brake parts we are using: http://SportToday.org/
Here is what the whole thing assembled looks like: http://SportToday.org/

I have to thank Geoff Faraghan for a ton of work experimenting several years
ago and Bronson Silva for becoming an expert at the HS33 setup and finding
all the parts. Also Kris for discovering that the HS33 can be used on a
unicycle, at least I think it was Kris who pioneered that.

---Nathan


Quote:
> I am having a 24" Muni custom made for me and I'd like to have it
> equipped with brakes. My thoughts were to use a modified Magura
> hydraulic brake setup to fit around the tyre.  However the bike
> builder suggested trying a different design of brake - one similar to
> those on kids' scooters. The idea is to have  a *** covered arm
> that pivots just under the fork crown. The *** covered arm will
> drag on the tyre when the brake lever is squeezed.   This should slow
> the wheel down. It may also result in increased tyre wear!  Has anyone
> tried anything like this before?

> While on the subject of brakes on Municycles:
> How useful are brakes on Muni anyway? How easy is it to regulate your
> speed when riding down steep, rocky terrain?

> From a purist's point of view can you do everything on a brakeless
> Muni that you can do on a Muni with brakes? Or could you if you had
> the right skills or technique?

> Any thoughts or comments much appreciated!
> Tony Melton

> .......coastin' on

 
 
 

New tyre drag brake design

Post by jagu » Mon, 01 Apr 2002 13:40:29

your bike builder is talkin bout a *spoon brake*they look and work good
on old english 3spd"s like DL1's or Apollo's

--
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New tyre drag brake design

Post by Sofa » Mon, 01 Apr 2002 21:40:18

I love my HS-33!  

People have said you can control your speed better.  What does this
mean?  You can go down really crazy stuff, and modulating your brake
makes it feel like your riding on flat ashphalt.  (To an extent.  Rough
asphalt if trail is too technical)

All your energy is saved by not having to 'back-pedal' something too
steep.  You just use gravity as your momentum, when your legs are
spinning too fast, slow the wheel.  I haven't put the brake on my new
frame, so for now, my ride is either 2.5" w/no brake, or 1.85 w/brake.

Maybe Darren Bedford will have a brake bosses model forthcoming?  Maybe
with not the added price of a Magura, but with the option for it later,
like disc tabs on a bike fork

--
Sofa
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New tyre drag brake design

Post by Ken Loo » Tue, 02 Apr 2002 06:11:14

Sounds like an interesting project.  I'm looking at building a new frame
with a brake also; it'll probably be a rim or disc though.  Which
framebuilder are you using?  I'd be interested in how much it cost etc;
and if you're down in Wellington anytime, how well it works!

:cool:

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New tyre drag brake design

Post by Tony Melt » Tue, 02 Apr 2002 19:36:27

rhysling  wrote

Quote:
> Weather the extra weight and expence is warrented FOR YOU AND YOUR TASTE-

Well I want to be able to ride the steepest, most *** terrain
that I can - so I think a brake could be helpful here.

Quote:
>The type of brake option/inovation your
> builder proferred would lack the sophistication required to make the
> device useful in this application.    Might make me worry about what
> other 'inovations' the builder has in mind...  

   The bike builder in question is Johnnie Foster and he has already
built me a bombproof trials uni, and two other high quality unicycles
(a muni and a two-wheeler) for friends of mine.

 Humm... a custom frame

Quote:
> has a very high cool factor. e
> the most of it.    Custom should mean increased performance/value
> instead of just unique- unless you just want a show piece.   And that's
> cool, too.

My reasons for getting a custom made muni are simply economic ones. It
is much less expensive to get a custom uni here in New Zealand than to
order one from unicycle.com - due to unfavourable exchange rates and
exorbitant freight costs.

Tony Melton

 
 
 

New tyre drag brake design

Post by Tony Melt » Tue, 02 Apr 2002 19:54:01

Quote:
> Sounds like an interesting project.  I'm looking at building a new frame
> with a brake also; it'll probably be a rim or disc though.  Which
> framebuilder are you using?  I'd be interested in how much it cost etc;
> and if you're down in Wellington anytime, how well it works!

> :cool:

Hi Ken

   The bike builder is Johnnie Foster, who lives in South Auckland. I
can give you his address and ph number if you would like them.   The
pre-construction cost estimate is about NZ$500 for the frame alone. I
haven't done an exact total of all the other components but all up
it'll probably end up costing about $1000. Not too shabby compared to
ordering from unicycle.com! Johnnie has already made a muni frame
(brakeless) for Peter Bier (of Aklnd unicycling fame) which cost about
$1000.

I'll try to post a photo of the new municycle on the net somewhere
when it is finished.

How did you do in the King of the Forest races? How did you find it
racing against/with MTBers?

I competed in a bike trials competition recently and got 8th out of 8
in my class, or 1st unicyclist out of one! Results are here:
http://bounce.to/montybikesnz   click on the North Island Champs
RESULTS link.

Tony Melton

 
 
 

New tyre drag brake design

Post by rhyslin » Wed, 03 Apr 2002 01:13:44

Yikes!   An Islander!   Then I firmly stand behind my previous
recommendation about having a skilled Mori bone carver fabricate
something out of bits of whale bone and shell :)

Christopher

--
rhysling - Last of the Mississippi Unicyclists

"Si...like a low rider, man. I like eet when he jacks hees shocks, man."
-Ceramic Dog, Physicist

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New tyre drag brake design

Post by John Fos » Wed, 03 Apr 2002 05:38:40

Quote:
> builder suggested trying a different design of brake - one similar to
> those on kids' scooters. The idea is to have  a *** covered arm
> that pivots just under the fork crown. The *** covered arm will
> drag on the tyre when the brake lever is squeezed.   This should slow
> the wheel down. It may also result in increased tyre wear!  Has anyone
> tried anything like this before?

Yes, it's called a spoon brake on old bikes (real old; over 100 years). This
design is very effective on a scooter because it's simple to manufacture,
and you can use your foot which is already right there, saving having to run
any controls or levers.

But why do this on a unicycle, and how is the lever supposed to work?

If you were to use such a thing on a long descent (one of the main places
where a brake is useful), I imagine that once you've gotten going you will
be riding along with the smell of burning ***. Your tire is not made out
of stuff designed for that kind of friction, and it will wear out real fast.
I have noticed wear on unicycle tires from lots of gliding, and that was
just from my foot!

So with 100 or so years of development behind them, I would recommend a nice
rim (or hub!) brake.

Good luck,
John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone

www.unicycling.com

"It takes four times the man to ride twice the half the bike." - Scott
Kurland, on Coker unicycles

 
 
 

New tyre drag brake design

Post by Ken Loo » Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:28:31

You're right about custom building...with our pacific peso (NZ$) at the
moment that's gotta be the way to go!  I'm about to go away for three
months so my custom muni will have to wait till later this year, but let
us know how you get on.  (My two cents- Go with the rim brake or
disc!)

Well done with the NI trials- only 4 pts off 7th place!  

Yeah, I did the last three King of the Forest races:
Results here:
Race 4 and 5 (both at Whitby)
http://SportToday.org/
http://SportToday.org/[/URL]

Race 6 results not on web yet but I came about 11/12 because it was
really flat and I had no gears and so got my ***kicked by the
MTBkers.

Also did the Makara peak relay last yr with a teamate (who rode a BMX)
http://SportToday.org/

If you enter the rec. class there's usually enough old, overweight,
unfit (*sorry*) people to ensure you don't come last.  Steep, moderately
technical courses are also good since it limits the relative
disadvantage of having only one gear and a fixed wheel.  Give it a go,
racing is a blast!

Ken :D

--
Ken Looi
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